[vivalaReagan]

thanks for the comparison write-up, eclipxe. not surprised the m5 beat the tesla in all categories.

tesla should be applauded for pushing electric tech, performance, & design to mid-market levels, but they can't yet compete with top-market products from leading manufacturers. the price point premium, driven by the leap in tech development, takes tesla out of consideration for many, especially when a consumer can acquire a near top-of-the-market vehicle for considerably less. government subsidies, combined with the lack of economies of scale, don't help the overall market comparison. when the subsidies fully sunset, demand will recede to normalized levels, which should be very informative for tesla and its actual market value and popularity.

my prediction: the legacy manufactures will catch up quickly, leverage their scale, & incorporate higher-end design practices to leapfrog tesla. bmw's philosophy (as well as porsche, mercedes, etc.) of introducing tech in top models, followed by a progression downward into lower models, will increase scale and market penetration for the legacy manufacturers, stealing current and future share/opportunity from tesla. this will probably prove to be fatal for tesla. many industries are littered with examples of this phenomenon aiding the incumbents, while killing the emergent change agent.

btw, i still remember the first time i drove a 1990 eagle talon. the 190-hp turbocharged four-cylinder engine in all-wheel drive format was a hoot!

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by TRACK M4STER

"Easily mitigated???!" Where have you been?

Elon Musk in panic. Model 3 build quality very poor:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...-or-break/amp/

Elon is a mad scientist. They don’t panic. They adapt. He managed to accomplish what NASA couldn’t in a fraction of the time. I have to notify my town to get approval for a yard sale. He got Cali to approve an underground hyper loop tunnel.

[SSIMPS]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

ThereÂ’s nothing innovative when the vehicle still needs petroleum. Yeah, itÂ’s so amazing by having exhaust notes pumped into your cabin, or having super bright lights. You sound ignorant. Both cars have there niche but letÂ’s be real, thereÂ’s very little redeeming qualities about driving a 600HP 5000 pound luxo, faux sports sedan. I personally think TeslaÂ’s look amazing. IÂ’m not enamored by BMWÂ’s weekly updates that are only put into place to up-sell me. The cars are outdated within 8 months.

LOL... Nothing innovative if it still uses petroleum?

I'd be careful who you call ignorant.

Take a look at MPG, and HP/liter. Until battery technology (combined with energy cost) is at the point where range and cost is no longer an issue for anyone, the internal combustion engine will be prevalent.

It's not too long ago that a sub 5 second car was a supercar, and 30mpg was out of this world.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by SSIMPS

LOL... Nothing innovative if it still uses petroleum?

I'd be careful who you call ignorant.

Take a look at MPG, and HP/liter. Until battery technology (combined with energy cost) is at the point where range and cost is no longer an issue for anyone, the internal combustion engine will be prevalent.

It's not too long ago that a sub 5 second car was a supercar, and 30mpg was out of this world.

This is such a weighted topic. We all know the petrol lobbyist have special interest in seeing petrol controlling the market. It’s quite an undertaking but Elon is working pretty well with what he has. I’m certain BMW et al has done some reverse engineering on Elon’s technology.

[SSIMPS]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

This is such a weighted topic. We all know the petrol lobbyist have special interest in seeing petrol controlling the market. ItÂ’s quite an undertaking but Elon is working pretty well with what he has. IÂ’m certain BMW et al has done some reverse engineering on ElonÂ’s technology.

I am a huge fan of what he is trying to do. I am all for electric cars (I almost bought an eGolf when I sold my M4.

You assuming I am some petrol fan boy is laughable. Unfortunately I have a 30 mile each way commute and I regularly go on 400mile + road trips so there just wasn't one for me.

Also it's a shame that Tesla can't take a page from SpaceX's book... the companies are MILES apart in terms of operation and efficiency.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by SSIMPS

I am a huge fan of what he is trying to do. I am all for electric cars (I almost bought an eGolf when I sold my M4.

You assuming I am some petrol fan boy is laughable. Unfortunately I have a 30 mile each way commute and I regularly go on 400mile + road trips so there just wasn't one for me.

Also it's a shame that Tesla can't take a page from SpaceX's book... the companies are MILES apart in terms of operation and efficiency.

I never implied anything about your character, my friend. Regarding SpaceX, there’s a level of urgency not necessary for Tesla right now. Plus, when you can eliminate the consumer aspect, you can be a rouge as you choose which is why they’ve made tremendous leaps in a short period.

[zinner]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

This is such a weighted topic. We all know the petrol lobbyist have special interest in seeing petrol controlling the market. It’s quite an undertaking but Elon is working pretty well with what he has. I’m certain BMW et al has done some reverse engineering on Elon’s technology.

Did you see the autoline after-hours where they discuss the efforts to reverse engineer the I3? Maybe Telsa just seems ahead cause that have some great marketing with their CEO. Did you check out the new I-Pace from Jag? The gap Tesla had 5 years ago is closing fast. There could be an argument made for that gap being long gone and Tesla is falling behind.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by zinner

Did you see the autoline after-hours where they discuss the efforts to reverse engineer the I3? Maybe Telsa just seems ahead cause that have some great marketing with their CEO. Did you check out the new I-Pace from Jag? The gap Tesla had 5 years ago is closing fast. There could be an argument made for that gap being long gone and Tesla is falling behind.

The gap is certainly closing and and yet Tesla is still not profitable...

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by zinner

Did you see the autoline after-hours where they discuss the efforts to reverse engineer the I3? Maybe Telsa just seems ahead cause that have some great marketing with their CEO. Did you check out the new I-Pace from Jag? The gap Tesla had 5 years ago is closing fast. There could be an argument made for that gap being long gone and Tesla is falling behind.

I thought Tesla’s entire business model is anti-marketing. They operate like a boutique...peer-to-peer sales. They’ve essentially eliminated the middle man. Much of their sales are inspired by word-of-mouth, unlike BMW. I personally don’t see Tesla as a brand that hopes to outpace anyone. They’ve found their niche and have maximized it.

[Calvin36]

Glad to see the ol girl drinking the fossil fuel is the winner compared to the "new tech."

[farns2345]

I don't understand how anyone who truly enjoys driving including the sounds of an engine and the interaction involved w switching gears whether manual or paddles can ever say a Tesla is better than any M car, AMG or RS model. Doesn't make any sense to me. Making cars that are more environmentally friendly I totally get, but when shopping for a drivers car, a fully electric car is safely at the very bottom of my list.

[yaymitch]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

For the most part, pointless distractions used to woo the consumer. My iPhoneX is my navigation. IÂ’ve used my F80s navigation maybe half-a-dozen times and my car is over 3 years old.

HUDs are really only necessary if you track your car. Tesla will never need one because it's not a track car. However, not having to look down at speed, rpms, etc. while seeing the road is a big advantage on a track. So it's definitely not unnecessary when driving an M.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I thought Tesla’s entire business model is anti-marketing. They operate like a boutique...peer-to-peer sales. They’ve essentially eliminated the middle man. Much if their sales are inspired by word-of-mouth, unlike BMW. I personally don’t see Tesla as a brand that hopes to outpace anyone. They’ve found their niche and have maximized it.

Maximized their market and continue to lose money. Not a very good business model imo.

[NoImDirtyDan]

Thank you for the review on both cars! I have never been a huge fan of Tesla's, I found the interior to be very cheap. (I also despise that it automatically brakes as soon as you let go of the gas).

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by neohh

Maximized their market and continue to lose money. Not a very good business model imo.

Volume, my friend. When Tesla gets to those heights, they’ll be able to make M luggage and pointless mountain bikes. lol

[neohh]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Volume, my friend. When Tesla gets to those heights, they’ll be able to make M luggage and pointless mountain bikes. lol

Lol they've been saying that for the past 5 years, just unable to executes while all the other car makers are catching up while making tons of profit. When you have competitive advantage and not be able to turn into profit, there is serious issue with the business model.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by neohh

Lol they've been saying that for the past 5 years, just unable to executes while all the other car makers are catching up while making tons of profit. When you have competitive advantage and not be able to turn into profit, there is serious issue with the business model.

Dude, 5 years on the car continuum is minute. Hyundai entered the US market in 1986, for example, ...look how long it’s taken them to get some level of automotive respect.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Dude, 5 years on the car continuum is minute. Hyundai entered the US market in 1986, for example, ...look how long it’s taken them to get some level of automotive respect.

Tesla already has the technology and the reputation in the auto industry for many years. In fact, they were the leader in electric car long before that. (Hyundai didn't has the technology nor reputation). Tesla's problem has always been production and cost.

As you said before, they are in a niche market and has maximize it (and you say they still need "more" volume to be profitable???) Lol

[Ckray]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

ThereÂ’s nothing innovative when the vehicle still needs petroleum. Yeah, itÂ’s so amazing by having exhaust notes pumped into your cabin, or having super bright lights. You sound ignorant. Both cars have there niche but letÂ’s be real, thereÂ’s very little redeeming qualities about driving a 600HP 5000 pound luxo, faux sports sedan. I personally think TeslaÂ’s look amazing. IÂ’m not enamored by BMWÂ’s weekly updates that are only put into place to up-sell me. The cars are outdated within 8 months.

Originally Posted by 48Laws

ThereÂ’s nothing innovative when the vehicle still needs petroleum. Yeah, itÂ’s so amazing by having exhaust notes pumped into your cabin, or having super bright lights. You sound ignorant. Both cars have there niche but letÂ’s be real, thereÂ’s very little redeeming qualities about driving a 600HP 5000 pound luxo, faux sports sedan. I personally think TeslaÂ’s look amazing. IÂ’m not enamored by BMWÂ’s weekly updates that are only put into place to up-sell me. The cars are outdated within 8 months.

Are you out of your mind?? So your telling me a Mclaren 720s isn't one of the most technological advanced cars out their I had a 488 spider sold that and just got my 720s best car I ever had look up Mclaren 720s you will see all the Lap records it destroyed Hmmmm I'm not a hybrid fan I have a M4 gts also for the raw driving experience trust me if and when you drive a Tesla their is no driving experience super super cheap quality you can't convince me a tech company has better build quality then bmw and MB soon enough the world will come to what quality actually is

[spuntyb]

Thanks for the quick review. I test drove a Tesla back in 2014 and said "fuck this". It's a quick, gimmicky Camry imho.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by neohh

Tesla already has the technology and the reputation in the auto industry for many years. In fact, they were the leader in electric car long before that. (Hyundai didn't has the technology nor reputation). Tesla's problem has always been production and cost.

As you said before, they are in a niche market and has maximize it (and you say they still need "more" volume to be profitable???) Lol

Can you quantify “many years”, please. I need to evaluate your sense of time.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Can you quantify “many years”, please. I need to evaluate your sense of time.

LMAO, I would also like to know how to significant increase the volume while you already maximize the market.

When you say a company in a niche market needs more volume to be profitable, I believe that proves my case.