[BeAtCoAsTeR]

I'll try to make this short, but the story just keeps getting longer...So last September after nearly a year of looking, I found a 2021 San Marino with a black interior and B&W among other options for 87k, which was very fair for the appearance of the car and knowing cars were in the high 90's with those specs locally here in Seattle. The car was a one owner lease return with 28k miles, immaculate Carfax, and I was told it was in great shape. I was told by the salesman that the BMW techs had gone through the car and it was 100% ready to go. After some video walkarounds and countless discussions back and forth over the course of a week, against my better judgement I pulled the trigger, purchased and shipped it over to Seattle so I could have my dream car.

Once I got it home I was in love, my kids and I sat in the car and thought 'wow, what an awesome spaceship'. A week later, after finally getting it on the freeway and up to speed I noticed a vibration at 65mph and took it in. They found that the front wheels were out of round and had been treated to some fine Illinois potholes during their life. I was pissed, but brushed it aside as I already had new wheels on order. Well, fast forward to yesterday, after putting only 300 miles on my garage queen int he past 4 months, I took my car into my local independent BMW shop, so they perform a full car inspection, do the 30k service, change all the fluids, and get it 100% ready for this summer.

Well, needless to say, I now feel completely scammed by BMW of Barrington/Motorwerks. You see my local BMW tech can access the BMW records for the car, and not disclosed to me was the fact that the engine had been replaced roughly 3k miles ago, and also had a leaking oil pan gasket, front differential seal failure/leak, and has two blown rear shocks that are starting to leak oil as well...So yeah, liars, cheaters, and not disclosing an engine replacement on the CarFax leads me to believe that this dealership is doing some shady stuff, and got this sucker to buy what they claimed was a great car, but certainly isn't. Now I get to see if my local BMW dealership will replace these items under warranty - and I will lose my shiznit if they don't...I know it's a used car and I have zero recourse, but I'm just floored to see that a reputable BMW dealership is so shady and scammy that they will push a car on someone saying that it is 100% with zero issues, and in reality it's been damn near beat to death and even needed a heart transplant. I'm so sad and completely disappointed to say the least, but just had to share, as even at this buying level, you're still dealing with scammers and shady ass dealerships...unbelievable...

[LASpartan]

If you relied on their promises to your detriment (as well as a failure to disclose), you likely have a claim across different theories.

I suspect private party transactions are held to a different standard. This is a dealership--it's in this business and they knew what they were doing. Hire a lawyer and see what they think. The moment they gave you a fake carfax, they committed fraud. Also, by committing fraud across state lines, they have committed a RICO violation and you can get treble damages.

[Nighttime22]

So sorry to hear about your situation. What a bummer.

Was this a CPO car? Shouldn't it be covered by the CPO car warranty ?

I know that doesn't address the obvious exclusions on their part (engine replacement ...etc) that they , in good faith, should have disclosed. I'd be livid as well.

Best of luck sorting it all out. Keep us posted!

[Redacre]

Originally Posted by LASpartan

If you relied on their promises to your detriment (as well as a failure to disclose), you likely have a claim across different theories.

I suspect private party transactions are held to a different standard. This is a dealership--it's in this business and they knew what they were doing. Hire a lawyer and see what they think. The moment they gave you a fake carfax, they committed fraud. Also, by committing fraud across state lines, they have committed a RICO violation and you can get treble damages.

In theory it sounds good but in reality it is really hard to pursue anything like this in the circumstance especially after all the time that has passed.

OP, I feel for you and I'm sorry this happened to you. It is a truly awful situation and I hope you get some kind of resolution but it is a challenging road. I bought an F90 M5 under similar circumstances with the dealership (in this case it was BMW of Ridgefield) not disclosing all the information that is available in the BMW records vs. Carfax and it blew the motor on my very first drive after I took possession. From there it took weeks of arguing, calling, following-up, documenting everything, it became like a second job to get Ridgefield BMW to own up, replace the motor, and give me compensation. Mine was also covered under warranty and ultimately I didn't pay anything so I have optimism that you will come out OK too, just don't expect it to be easy


And FWIW, if the dealership did replace the motor and you can get the documentation for that (in my case I was able to call the service department directly and have them provide the records) it is a bit of a silver-lining. To use your metaphor, it has a new heart and you are basically the only owner of that heart so you can maintain it to your standards (plus it should have an extra warranty) and have some comfort knowing it is fresh. It's not like these are classic Porsche 356 where having a numbers-matching original engine matters that much when you go to sell.

Best of luck OP, fight hard and stick it to them.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by BeAtCoAsTeR

I'll try to make this short, but the story just keeps getting longer...So last September after nearly a year of looking, I found a 2021 San Marino with a black interior and B&W among other options for 87k, which was very fair for the appearance of the car and knowing cars were in the high 90's with those specs locally here in Seattle. The car was a one owner lease return with 28k miles, immaculate Carfax, and I was told it was in great shape. I was told by the salesman that the BMW techs had gone through the car and it was 100% ready to go. After some video walkarounds and countless discussions back and forth over the course of a week, against my better judgement I pulled the trigger, purchased and shipped it over to Seattle so I could have my dream car.

Once I got it home I was in love, my kids and I sat in the car and thought 'wow, what an awesome spaceship'. A week later, after finally getting it on the freeway and up to speed I noticed a vibration at 65mph and took it in. They found that the front wheels were out of round and had been treated to some fine Illinois potholes during their life. I was pissed, but brushed it aside as I already had new wheels on order. Well, fast forward to yesterday, after putting only 300 miles on my garage queen int he past 4 months, I took my car into my local independent BMW shop, so they perform a full car inspection, do the 30k service, change all the fluids, and get it 100% ready for this summer.

Well, needless to say, I now feel completely scammed by BMW of Barrington/Motorwerks. You see my local BMW tech can access the BMW records for the car, and not disclosed to me was the fact that the engine had been replaced roughly 3k miles ago, and also had a leaking oil pan gasket, front differential seal failure/leak, and has two blown rear shocks that are starting to leak oil as well...So yeah, liars, cheaters, and not disclosing an engine replacement on the CarFax leads me to believe that this dealership is doing some shady stuff, and got this sucker to buy what they claimed was a great car, but certainly isn't. Now I get to see if my local BMW dealership will replace these items under warranty - and I will lose my shiznit if they don't...I know it's a used car and I have zero recourse, but I'm just floored to see that a reputable BMW dealership is so shady and scammy that they will push a car on someone saying that it is 100% with zero issues, and in reality it's been damn near beat to death and even needed a heart transplant. I'm so sad and completely disappointed to say the least, but just had to share, as even at this buying level, you're still dealing with scammers and shady ass dealerships...unbelievable...

1) I assume you're meaning marina bay blue? San Marino blue I believe would only be available as an individual color in an f90? Not important I know, however , if it is indeed san marino blue, and is an individual color, thats cool, but if its San Marino blue, and not an individual car, that could spell a bigger rebuild on your hands. But I assume its marina bay blue is what youre referring to?

2) its very possible the selling dealership had no idea... Not saying this is the case... But is there any record of WHO replaced the engine? Date? Was it the same dealership you purchased from? It's very possible the particular dealer bought it from BMW wholesale lease return auction. So it could have actually been BMW that replaced the engine. Which could be a good thing. When leases expire and people dont opt to buy the car out, or trade it in, dealers have the ability to purchase directly from BMW and also purchase from closed factory auctions at places like Manheim. Meaning this auction would be closed to any dealer who IS NOT a franchise BMW dealer. It would be BMW financial selling the car at auction. If this is the case, many times, there is also inspections that happen at the auctions. so could be good to try to access that report if you can get your hands on it to prove they knew about deficiencies when they bought it at auction. (if they bought it at auction) if it was traded into them, they also may not know it had a new engine. although I would think they would do their diligence. Maybe not.

This doesn't mean that it's ok they said all was clear and inspected and checked out perfect. When it indeed had issues. They told you it was good to go, and obviously wasnt.

3) the selling dealer isn't who would "disclose" anything to carfax. Unless they did the repair work. Even then some dont report things to carfax. Whoever it was that did the engine replacement would be the people who are responsible to report to carfax. but its not a law, and not illegal to not report to carfax. maybe that is indeed the selling dealership ? But possibly not. regardless, not EVERYTHING always gets disclosed to carfax. it's quite common actually if a repair or accident or something wasnt reported or logged where it would feed to carfax. Thats not uncommon at all.

4) the inspection from the dealership you could potentially be useful in your case against them. try to get a copy of it. the dealership SHOULD have a record of that pre-sale inspection when they did their reconditioning, and inspection before they ever offered it for sale.

5) does the carfax offer a "buy back" guarantee? There situations where this could be the fault of carfax. or check to see if its on carfax now. If it wasn't on there when you bought it, but is on the carfax now, thats a problem. that would indicate something was hidden. but check dates of when the engine was replaced, compare with carfax, just do some general fact checking and date comparisons to make sure the sequence of events and dates are inline. If something is off? someone messed with something.

6) is the car still under warranty? Many of these things would likely be covered anyway. So maybe not as bad as you think. But definitely get the items checked out.

Either way , sorry this happened, really sucks. Hopefully it can get ironed out, but I agree with this much time passing, it could be difficult.

Also, I would pull more than just a fresh carfax, pull auto check, pull other VIN check sources, and make sure it's all aligned and the dates and times line up.

Not saying it never happens, because im no dealer advocate, I cant stand many of them. However, a franchise BMW dealership I would think would be rare they would try to conceal something so big, unless it was concealed from them also. But... with that said, I put nothing past ANY dealership, and I avoid them all as much as I can.

[BeAtCoAsTeR]

Thank you everyone and yes, it's Marina Bay not San Marino, too many colors on the brain. I will be getting my car back from the indy shop on Monday and they have pulled and printed all the records for me, and will go over all they know, so should have more information then. They did say that the engine replacement appears to have gone on record in March of 2023, but I don't know more than that at this time. Having had some time to settle after finding out this info, then posting, if I can indeed get the repairs/items fixed it would be a 'minty' car with a new heart that I can keep maintained at the level I want - which would be nice for sure, as this is my garage queen who's only had 300 miles put on it since I got it. It's really the deception that is what gets me, as I feel like any car with an engine swap is worth much less than market price, and I felt that I was paying fair market at the time of $87k, for a car that justified that price. My salesman already wrote back saying he is very sorry to hear this, and is sending my note to his GM, but we'll see if anything comes of that. I have more questions than anything, just like you folks - was it a used engine with "like" miles, or was it a brand new engine that got installed? Was just the engine replaced or were the turbos and other wear parts just swapped over to a new block/heads?? If it was a new engine why is the oil pan gasket already leaking after just 3k miles? It is still under warranty and is still stock with only cosmetic parts, so they can't say "you aftermarket parts did X" which is a blessing cause I have $15k in parts in my garage waiting to go on it, lol...I will keep you all in the loop as this progresses, but having heard all the BMW warranty horror stories out there and now seemingly a victim of deception and fraud at the hands of a BMW dealership directly, I'm a little tossed at this point, especially on such a large purchase...Thank you all again, I will certainly be working on this further in the coming days/weeks!!

[Rafichicago]

This is one of the things I hate about US laws in general. Retailers are allowed to list price as sale price while it was the same before so called sale. It’s just scamming unsuspecting customers. There’s same thing with auto auctions. Some cars are purchased on auctions by body shops just to throw some better looking less damaged parts and resale it at same auction for half more. Seen that many times. New car dealer doesn’t have to disclose that brand new car was damaged in transport and had been repainted. It can be sold as brand new just like undamaged one. That list goes on. I happen to live in the area and I know the dealer. They seem to be selling manufacturers buybacks there too. It’s weird but for only that reason I wouldn’t buy car from them. I feel for you but part of the problem here is legislature in this country. But you know. Government takes care of it’s people… good luck with your car. Just because engine had been replaced does not mean that it would be beaten to death. Catastrophic failures happen. Try to go to your local BMW dealer and maybe some nice service advisor will help you out. There has to be parts list of what was replaced. If it was the whole thing short block etc. This is large repair and while done under warranty it has to be well documented. Good luck.

[nordmanmg]

Your car is still under warranty, engine replacement doesn’t mean it was beaten and abused, you have a car with new motor, that’s a good thing, I saw cars with blown engine because owner didn’t know how to use paddle shifters and floored it on first or second gear. Sht happens.
Take it to the local dealer, address all your concerns and have them replace blown struts under warranty.
I just got ‘21 M5c myself with only 10k miles, yet it had leaking front struts, which I saw after two weeks of having the car. Took it in, and it got repaired under warranty

[Bmock17]

I live 15 minutes from this dealership and have tried doing business with them multiple times, but it was always very difficult.

With that being said, they are part of Motorwerks, which is a very large auto group. I’d be surprised if they intentionally mislead you or tried to hide something from you. I’m not saying they didn’t, but given the volume and size of the auto group, what would they gain from it?

I’m sorry this happened to you and hopefully it all gets fixed under warranty. Like some of the other people already said, maybe they didn’t know about it, either?

[BeAtCoAsTeR]

As an update for everyone, I got a call back from my salesman saying he didn't know about any of the car problems and is really sorry, and apparently sent my info and issue to the GM, who has never called me back in the past 4 business days, real shocker there.

I got the entire BMW maintenance print out from my indy shop, and it looks like either something failed internally or the previous owner blew a rod at 65-70mph on the freeway, then tried to start it and heard a "ticking" the report says. and then had it towed into a dealer. It's my worst case scenario come true, as it looks to be just a shortblock replacement only. So the dealer that replaced the block, did a bad job on the oil pan seal and the front diff seals when they put it back in, as both of those are currently leaking. There was a 3 page parts list, but it was only for seals/gaskets/etc and by looking up the part numbers, the heads and everything else appear to have been moved over to this new shortblock(which is an old 2020 part number/block). I also found out that the previous owner was 500miles over his break in oil change and 2000miles over his scheduled oil change before the engine blew, so what else was constantly neglected? The dealer that sold me the car was not the one that did the repair, but their crack squad of technicians obviously missed(or never divulged) all this with their laughable "multi-point inspection".

I now need to take the car into my local dealer, BMW of Bellevue, who mind you, I already paid over $300 to perform a multipoint inspection when we found the wheels were bent, but none of these other issues that my indy shop found, were ever found by those '///M trained technicians' - they just sent me on my way?!?!?!

Overall it's been a great first timer BMW purchase experience, and I have proof of two inspections that turned up nothing, meanwhile my indy BMW shop finds all kids of problems instantly... Gee, wonder why I have little faith in BMW dealers?!?...

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by BeAtCoAsTeR

As an update for everyone, I got a call back from my salesman saying he didn't know about any of the car problems and is really sorry, and apparently sent my info and issue to the GM, who has never called me back in the past 4 business days, real shocker there.

I got the entire BMW maintenance print out from my indy shop, and it looks like either something failed internally or the previous owner blew a rod at 65-70mph on the freeway, then tried to start it and heard a "ticking" the report says. and then had it towed into a dealer. It's my worst case scenario come true, as it looks to be just a shortblock replacement only. So the dealer that replaced the block, did a bad job on the oil pan seal and the front diff seals when they put it back in, as both of those are currently leaking. There was a 3 page parts list, but it was only for seals/gaskets/etc and by looking up the part numbers, the heads and everything else appear to have been moved over to this new shortblock(which is an old 2020 part number/block). I also found out that the previous owner was 500miles over his break in oil change and 2000miles over his scheduled oil change before the engine blew, so what else was constantly neglected? The dealer that sold me the car was not the one that did the repair, but their crack squad of technicians obviously missed(or never divulged) all this with their laughable "multi-point inspection".

I now need to take the car into my local dealer, BMW of Bellevue, who mind you, I already paid over $300 to perform a multipoint inspection when we found the wheels were bent, but none of these other issues that my indy shop found, were ever found by those '///M trained technicians' - they just sent me on my way?!?!?!

Overall it's been a great first timer BMW purchase experience, and I have proof of two inspections that turned up nothing, meanwhile my indy BMW shop finds all kids of problems instantly... Gee, wonder why I have little faith in BMW dealers?!?...

This has nothing to do with BMW dealers specifically. This has to do with car dealers, they're scum, I was in the business for 12 years. The overwhelming majority of dealers own multiple franchise brands also. So it has nothing to do with a specific brand.

Just so youre aware BMW of Bellevue is an AutoNation Store. They own like 300 some franchise car dealerships across the country.

If I were you I would skip the dealership GM, go straight to corporate leadership for Autonation and get them to buy the car back or have an attorney reach out to their leadership which is listed right here : https://investors.autonation.com/pro...t/default.aspx

The individual store may not care, but the corporate leadership may.

Don't sit back and wait for the GM, blow them up, call every day, email every day with every single corporate leadership person CC'd.

You'll get an answer, guaranteed. The want problems to go away. They dont want to be known as a group that sells lemons.

I would go to Carfax, I would go to bow corporate, every one who may have a record of this vehicle and dig in to find out how hid and knew what. Someone will see something somewhere.

Carfax offers buy backs, I dont know their stipulations, but may be worth a shot. Take it as high as you can. May turn out better than you think.

[nordmanmg]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

This has nothing to do with BMW dealers specifically. This has to do with car dealers, they're scum, I was in the business for 12 years. The overwhelming majority of dealers own multiple franchise brands also. So it has nothing to do with a specific brand.

Just so youre aware BMW of Bellevue is an AutoNation Store. They own like 300 some franchise car dealerships across the country.

If I were you I would skip the dealership GM, go straight to corporate leadership for Autonation and get them to buy the car back or have an attorney reach out to their leadership which is listed right here : https://investors.autonation.com/pro...t/default.aspx

The individual store may not care, but the corporate leadership may.

Don't sit back and wait for the GM, blow them up, call every day, email every day with every single corporate leadership person CC'd.

You'll get an answer, guaranteed. The want problems to go away. They dont want to be known as a group that sells lemons.

I would go to Carfax, I would go to bow corporate, every one who may have a record of this vehicle and dig in to find out how hid and knew what. Someone will see something somewhere.

Carfax offers buy backs, I dont know their stipulations, but may be worth a shot. Take it as high as you can. May turn out better than you think.

AutoNation has nothing to do with his car, he got it in Illinois from MotorWerks
.
As to the topic starter, if the car is under warranty, why not just have your local dealer address those issues?

[BeAtCoAsTeR]

Originally Posted by nordmanmg

AutoNation has nothing to do with his car, he got it in Illinois from MotorWerks
.
As to the topic starter, if the car is under warranty, why not just have your local dealer address those issues?

Correct, BMW of Bellevue is my closest dealer, but I got the car from BMW of Barrington/Motorwerks. My issue is that I paid over $300 for BMW of Bellevue to do a "multipoint inspection" and aside from the two front bent rims, they said the car looked good. Now paying $550 for my indy shop to do the same thing while performing some maintenance work, I learned the short block has been swapped, and currently has leaking oil pan, leaking front diff, leaking rear shocks...this just doesn't give me much hope in the mechanics at BMW of Bellevue. I will be taking the car to them next Tuesday, with all my indy shop findings/pictures, saying "fix this under warranty".

The bigger issue is that none of the engine failure/replacement/etc information was ever disclosed to me through the course of purchasing the car, when BMW and their system show it plain as day - I asked for maintenance records and the engine work was omitted/not shown, the Carfax does not show anything either. Knowing that it was only a shortblock replacement, and now seeing that the previous owner was 500+ miles past on his oil change after break in, and 2000 miles past when the old engine blew, how beat up are the internals of the heads, turbo bearings, cam bearings, etc. as all those parts were put back on the replacement short block and reinstalled - and done, clearly by a team that can't even seat a oil pan gasket correctly...

If I was rich enough to have this car as a daily big whoop, but this was supposed to be my dream car/garage queen that maybe gets a few thousand miles a year put on it. Once I speak with BMW of Bellevue and get my car into them, I'll know more...

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by nordmanmg

AutoNation has nothing to do with his car, he got it in Illinois from MotorWerks
.
As to the topic starter, if the car is under warranty, why not just have your local dealer address those issues?

OK, fair enough, bit confused where he bought the car, but the point stands, its not BMW, its the dealership, or dealership group who pulls the shady stuff. Not the manufacture.

That was in response to OP saying his first BMW has left a lot to be desired. To which im saying, this problem hes having is much less a BMW issue, and much more a dealer issue. What dealer? not sure anymore.

[mjr24]

I’m about half an hour from them….

They are a large auto group but it kind of turns me off that they sell so many buyback/lemons….just seems shady. You’d have to actually look at the Carfax on these, too, because the dealer doesn’t mention anything about it in their ads.

When lease prices hit the roof back in 2022 and I decided to buy….it amazed me how many $100k cars they had that ended up being buybacks. You don’t really expect a new car dealer to be selling those types above a certain price point.

[nordmanmg]

Originally Posted by BeAtCoAsTeR

Correct, BMW of Bellevue is my closest dealer, but I got the car from BMW of Barrington/Motorwerks. My issue is that I paid over $300 for BMW of Bellevue to do a "multipoint inspection" and aside from the two front bent rims, they said the car looked good. Now paying $550 for my indy shop to do the same thing while performing some maintenance work, I learned the short block has been swapped, and currently has leaking oil pan, leaking front diff, leaking rear shocks...this just doesn't give me much hope in the mechanics at BMW of Bellevue. I will be taking the car to them next Tuesday, with all my indy shop findings/pictures, saying "fix this under warranty".

The bigger issue is that none of the engine failure/replacement/etc information was ever disclosed to me through the course of purchasing the car, when BMW and their system show it plain as day - I asked for maintenance records and the engine work was omitted/not shown, the Carfax does not show anything either. Knowing that it was only a shortblock replacement, and now seeing that the previous owner was 500+ miles past on his oil change after break in, and 2000 miles past when the old engine blew, how beat up are the internals of the heads, turbo bearings, cam bearings, etc. as all those parts were put back on the replacement short block and reinstalled - and done, clearly by a team that can't even seat a oil pan gasket correctly...

If I was rich enough to have this car as a daily big whoop, but this was supposed to be my dream car/garage queen that maybe gets a few thousand miles a year put on it. Once I speak with BMW of Bellevue and get my car into them, I'll know more...

Maybe those signs of oil leaks are not oil leaks, maybe it’s oil drips left after some engine work? Is it dripping to your garage floor? Just curious.
.
Off topic- over the years I developed a good relationship with my local BMW dealer and know service techs there. I always ask SA to let me talk to the tech who will be working on my car if it’s a warranty issue. And tip him few hundred bucks - “take a good care of my ride please”
Cuz when it comes to a warranty repair, technician doesn’t get paid in full, and, off course they don’t want to work for “free”

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by nordmanmg

Maybe those signs of oil leaks are not oil leaks, maybe it’s oil drips left after some engine work? Is it dripping to your garage floor? Just curious.
.
Off topic- over the years I developed a good relationship with my local BMW dealer and know service techs there. I always ask SA to let me talk to the tech who will be working on my car if it’s a warranty issue. And tip him few hundred bucks - “take a good care of my ride please”
Cuz when it comes to a warranty repair, technician doesn’t get paid in full, and, off course they don’t want to work for “free”

If thats true your local dealer doesnt pay their techs in full on warranty repair thats not a common occurrence. The majority of the time the OEMS pay the franchise dealers the exact same hourly shop rate they do for the customer paying repairs. Meaning if the shop labor rate is 225.00 an hour, thats what they get reimbursed. Otherwise why would a dealer ever waste their time on warranty repairs. It's mandated in the franchise agreements. So if thats true thats that specific dealers decision, which is extremely slimy, thats on that specific dealer. Not all dealers.

However, I agree there is more here..... what is different is this..... BMW, as well as aftermarket warranty companies have the repair guides to base the hours they pay for. Example : if the guides say XYZ repair takes 10 hours, thats what it should take. thats what they get paid. They get reimbursed from BMW or aftermarket warranty for 10 hours.

So, with that said... if a SA, or tech says they dont get paid in full thats simply due to the fact that the dealers attempt to pad the repair bills with as much labor as possible. the techs get paid their hourly rate, usually based on the amount of time the guides say also. if the SA can up charge than and get someone to pay it? Just extra for the SA and dealer. Techs dont work for free. Ever. If the job is 10 hours, and their pay rate says they get 30.00 an hour, then they get 30.00 x 10 for that repair regardless if it takes then 5 hours or 500 hours. That doesnt stop dealers from attempting to charge fore 15 hours of labor, knowing damn well it's supposed to take 10. the extra is the padding they charge if they can get away with it.

[nordmanmg]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

If thats true your local dealer doesnt pay their techs in full on warranty repair thats not a common occurrence. The majority of the time the OEMS pay the franchise dealers the exact same hourly shop rate they do for the customer paying repairs. Meaning if the shop labor rate is 225.00 an hour, thats what they get reimbursed. Otherwise why would a dealer ever waste their time on warranty repairs. It's mandated in the franchise agreements. So if thats true thats that specific dealers decision, which is extremely slimy, thats on that specific dealer. Not all dealers.

However, I agree there is more here..... what is different is this..... BMW, as well as aftermarket warranty companies have the repair guides to base the hours they pay for. Example : if the guides say XYZ repair takes 10 hours, thats what it should take. thats what they get paid. They get reimbursed from BMW or aftermarket warranty for 10 hours.

So, with that said... if a SA, or tech says they dont get paid in full thats simply due to the fact that the dealers attempt to pad the repair bills with as much labor as possible. the techs get paid their hourly rate, usually based on the amount of time the guides say also. if the SA can up charge than and get someone to pay it? Just extra for the SA and dealer. Techs dont work for free. Ever. If the job is 10 hours, and their pay rate says they get 30.00 an hour, then they get 30.00 x 10 for that repair regardless if it takes then 5 hours or 500 hours. That doesnt stop dealers from attempting to charge fore 15 hours of labor, knowing damn well it's supposed to take 10. the extra is the padding they charge if they can get away with it.

I’ll have to ask a tech next time out if curiosity. I assumed that warranty doesn’t pay full labor rate, cuz I had a friend who worked for a Toyota and… oh wait, I actually remember now. He didn’t say it pays less, he said some jobs don’t pay enough by the book. Pardon me for setting confusion.

But I still tip the tech tho

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by nordmanmg

I’ll have to ask a tech next time out if curiosity. I assumed that warranty doesn’t pay full labor rate, cuz I had a friend who worked for a Toyota and… oh wait, I actually remember now. He didn’t say it pays less, he said some jobs don’t pay enough by the book. Pardon me for setting confusion.

But I still tip the tech tho

Im not saying it's not a good idea to tip the technician. Thats fair, and not a bad idea for fair treatment and extra care for your baby...

However, the technicians have very little to do these days with what is and isn't approved for warranty. They arent the decision makers in that regard. They diagnose, and repair. Thats it. Thats why BMW corporate would get involved. Or the ECU logs they can see if its with in normal parameters, and a normal failure requiring warranty. They make the decisions on big repairs at corporate after investigating the car, and ECU etc. It's usually a conversation between the OEM/factory warranty rep, and the dealership service manager. The service advisors, and techs simply take the money and make the repair. and try to charge as much as possible. SA gets commissions, tech gets paid his hourly rate for the job. BMW pays the dealer the same rate a customer would pay. This way the dealers aren't cherry picking what cars get repaired first, or technicians fighting over what repair orders they want to do, or the SA's manipulating customer pay people or warranty claims to cherry pick, and pad their pockets.

But the tech is correct that some jobs don't pay enough.. sorta... I couldn't name a specific repair job, however, I know it happens where the guide books say, for instance a head gasket, should be 5 hours labor (just making this up). Well on a certain car it may be more difficult and require a little extra work or clean up time, and reality is it takes 7 hours, sucks for the tech. they still get paid for only 5 hours. BUUUTTTT its also true in reverse. Thats why good technicians love being paid "flat rate" or "book rate/time" like this rather than just say 40 hours/week x 30.00 an hour. Because the easy repairs they could get done quickly, say 2 hours, they still get paid 5 hours. So they'll pad their check by being very efficient. And on the harder jobs or jobs where the repair guidelines for labor are low, they may lose a little but it generally evens out through out the month.

[crypto]

You guys tip your tech when you bring your car in? Like for what? Oil changes? How do you even tip them? You ask the porter or SA to take you to the tech who will be working on your car later (if they even know who that is yet) and you place a fat stack of George Washingtons in his shirt pocket and tell him you know he’s going to give the best oil change of his life and to treat himself after?

Im not saying not to or that it wouldn’t be appreciate but lol I’m having trouble figuring out the logistics of this tip and how it’s actually given. Or do you just mean when your car will be in the shop for like two weeks and you’re actually meeting with them to discuss stuff?

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by crypto

You guys tip your tech when you bring your car in? Like for what? Oil changes? How do you even tip them? You ask the porter or SA to take you to the tech who will be working on your car later (if they even know who that is yet) and you place a fat stack of George Washingtons in his shirt pocket and tell him you know he’s going to give the best oil change of his life and to treat himself after?

Im not saying not to or that it wouldn’t be appreciate but lol I’m having trouble figuring out the logistics of this tip and how it’s actually given. Or do you just mean when your car will be in the shop for like two weeks and you’re actually meeting with them to discuss stuff?

No I do not tip anyone at a dealership LOL. Never... In fact I would prefer they pay me to deal with them 1/2 the time. I spend as little time as possible in a dealership.

I see his point in doing so, but in reality it likely does absolutely nothing except light money on fire, and making the tech feel nice.

[STi from DSM]

To think I felt slighted when my CPO inspection missed a jack pad. Sorry you had to go through this. Hopefully you get someone involved to buy this vehicle back.