[daytonaviolet]

Originally Posted by micvite

Honestly better to rent on turo for a few days

I've driven many fast cars .. plaid is up there 🤪

[micvite]

Originally Posted by daytonaviolet

I've driven many fast cars .. plaid is up there 🤪

Main thing is it can put the power down pretty effortlessly haha.

[Maverik259]

I truly despise the move to eliminate the ICE. As much of a gear head i am and love for new cars/tech and working on them this is like the worst possible thing as i am sure for many on these forums. Truth is i would love to own a TESLA and i actually think they look good in white with black trim (well the S does, not the 3/y)...but i can't justify the cost for what you get. I'd rather spend that money on a Audi e-tron. Only "good" looking 3 i saw was the one Matt Moreman built out to the tune of $80-90k or something like that. haha and even it only lasted a year before he tossed it and he wanted it for its auto pilot to help with his OCD/ panic attacks.

[snareman]

I think the only truly amazing looking Tesla is the Roadster. Of course it's 250k and not available yet. I don't know why they can't make their cars more attractive. I suppose they are certainly distinctive.

[Takumi587]

As much as I love Tesla I think me and my wife are also going back to BMW. We got the FSD Beta recently and not as awesome as I thought it would be. If you’re going to get a Tesla then don’t even bother with adding the FSD since the car comes with autopilot on the highway already.

I also do not like that they removed the gear stalk and signal stalk. Yoke wheel is also troublesome when I drove it. I’m sure it would just take some getting used to but not feeling it as well.

Test drove the i4M50 and was a joy to drive especially with CarPlay.

Only thing we will surely miss is autopilot, the cameras and supercharge network Tesla has.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

As much as I love Tesla I think me and my wife are also going back to BMW. We got the FSD Beta recently and not as awesome as I thought it would be. If you’re going to get a Tesla then don’t even bother with adding the FSD since the car comes with autopilot on the highway already.

I also do not like that they removed the gear stalk and signal stalk. Yoke wheel is also troublesome when I drove it. I’m sure it would just take some getting used to but not feeling it as well.

Test drove the i4M50 and was a joy to drive especially with CarPlay.

Only thing we will surely miss is autopilot, the cameras and supercharge network Tesla has.

Get the i4 with the drivers assistance package, id honestly argue its better than autopilot and it also doesn't limit you to 85 (goes up to 110) just won't take you to off ramps haha.

Personally I like the fsd, having summon on those rainy days is really nice (had to run out to my bmw when I pulled into service and it was like 20 ft in the rain when with the Tesla I could've just been like oh back up will ya? It's these little things that once you use them and don't have them you end up missing. And the regular driving with fsd works well enough that to get me to my most traveled places I know there's 2 intersections that give it trouble and I just take over at those 2, it's nice to just chill other than that lol. Again the bmw is better at keeping lane and stuff imo, since it's not scared to turn the freaking wheel and cause lateral g's like the Tesla (and you can turn the wheel a bit to avoid potholes and stuff without cancelling), but it's nice to have it do all the turns and stuff for you so you don't have to keep canceling it and turning it back on.

[daytonaviolet]

Originally Posted by micvite

Main thing is it can put the power down pretty effortlessly haha.

Sure does. I enjoy giving rides to my buddies.. watching them getting excited with the instant power never gets old 😉

[micvite]

Originally Posted by daytonaviolet

Sure does. I enjoy giving rides to my buddies.. watching them getting excited with the instant power never gets old 😉

Honestly I regret not shelling out an extra 20k for a plaid... but whatever I'll see what the values are like in a year or so and decide what I want to do.

[Neptune7]

Pretty incredible that the Plaid X SUV is quicker than an M5 CS, doing sub 10 quarter miles.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

Pretty incredible that the Plaid X SUV is quicker than an M5 CS, doing sub 10 quarter miles.

Well it's 1100 hp vs 600 lol

[Pzl1nz00]

Originally Posted by micvite

Well it's 1100 hp vs 600 lol

Well…

The talk is that the F90 M5 Comp while rated for 617, is putting out around 700hp. With a simple tune on 93 pump gas, they are capable of 783hp.

AND

The M5CS is putting out somewhere close to the 800s they say. The CS was roll raced against Hellcat and the CS pulled away. Similar trans, so drivetrain losses similar. That means engine has to be close to putting out Hellcat numbers!

[Pzl1nz00]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

Pretty incredible that the Plaid X SUV is quicker than an M5 CS, doing sub 10 quarter miles.

It is electric which means 100% torque at initial RPM. Torque is what accelerates you, HP maintains speed.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Pzl1nz00

Well…

The talk is that the F90 M5 Comp while rated for 617, is putting out around 700hp. With a simple tune on 93 pump gas, they are capable of 783hp.

AND

The M5CS is putting out somewhere close to the 800s they say. The CS was roll raced against Hellcat and the CS pulled away. Similar trans, so drivetrain losses similar. That means engine has to be close to putting out Hellcat numbers!

I can tell you for a fact that the cs and the comp have very similar hp numbers, only difference is the weight, only thing I can think of with the hellcat is driver mod lol. Also the bmw trans has a fully locked torque converter starting at 1mph, the hellcat doesn't so there's quite a bit of loss until it does lock.

Edit: did some math: so hellcat redeye weighs 4444 lbs give or take, m5cs weighs 4113. A stock redeye with 797 hp makes 705 at the wheels and 679 torque, of we're to believe bmw actually advertised wheel hp and torque like they usually do, the m5 cs has 627 hp and 550 torque let's say, which puts it just slightly over the power to weight on a hellcat so it makes sense. It's not that it has 900 hp it's just very little drivetrain loss and a slightly underrated power train.

[Neptune7]

Originally Posted by Pzl1nz00

It is electric which means 100% torque at initial RPM. Torque is what accelerates you, HP maintains speed.

Yes I know - just reflecting on the bottom line

[Pzl1nz00]

Originally Posted by micvite

I can tell you for a fact that the cs and the comp have very similar hp numbers, only difference is the weight, only thing I can think of with the hellcat is driver mod lol. Also the bmw trans has a fully locked torque converter starting at 1mph, the hellcat doesn't so there's quite a bit of loss until it does lock.

Edit: did some math: so hellcat redeye weighs 4444 lbs give or take, m5cs weighs 4113. A stock redeye with 797 hp makes 705 at the wheels and 679 torque, of we're to believe bmw actually advertised wheel hp and torque like they usually do, the m5 cs has 627 hp and 550 torque let's say, which puts it just slightly over the power to weight on a hellcat so it makes sense. It's not that it has 900 hp it's just very little drivetrain loss and a slightly underrated power train.

Agree with the weight side of things!

Dyno numbers on stock car attached. BMW for sure underrates power and everyone says this.


Watch this video. For some reason these guys think car is in the mid 800s. They also did a series of races against a 911 Turbo S and it was MUCH closer than I expected!

[micvite]

Originally Posted by Pzl1nz00

Agree with the weight side of things!

Dyno numbers on stock car attached. BMW for sure underrates power and everyone says this.


Watch this video. For some reason these guys think car is in the mid 800s. They also did a series of races against a 911 Turbo S and it was MUCH closer than I expected!

https://youtu.be/0lWSYxPJYLo

See those measurements mean nothing lol... it's dinans estimate of what they think the crank hp is based on whatever magic formula they pulled out of their asses to determine drivetrain loss.
I've also seen that video, and to be perfectly 100% honest those guys aren't the best drivers in general and dont really knw much about the cars either. I can't recall what videos exactly I'm talking about bug there were some where I was just face palming the whole time lol. Them saying the car has mid 800s is literally based on the fact that a redeye has 800 and the cs was pulling slightly, not accounting for weight or the nearly 100 hp drivetrain loss on the hellcat (12% from advertised).

Speaking on the 911, very similar hp and torque figures (605 and 560 at the wheels) but it went on a 400 lbs diet, so that's really where things are vastly different in both of these scenarios is simply the weight. If you want to know which car is going to be faster a simple wheel hp and torque per lbs is going to tell you pretty accurately. But those made up crank hp numbers mean pretty much nothing unless advertised by the factory since they actually put the engine on an engine dyno instead of trying to guess drivetrain loss... I mean heck if we're going by the standard from 10 years ago and awd car looses up to 25% that means the m5 would have 836 hp at the crank. And a hellcat redeye based on dyno results would have around 860 at the crank with an 18% loss do these numbers really mean anything or matter? Nope because what's going to the wheels is what make the car go vroom, I can have a million crank hp if I only get 200 to the wheels you think it'll be a fast car?😁

[Bimmerfun82]

Great write up, love the passion. My tesla model 3 performance was the same experience for me. Probably worse. I went for slower cars but so much more satisfying in the loaded X5 (massage, air suspension, merino, laser lights, 'semi auto pilot' driving which really helps on road trips … and 430 convertible to boot… with the luxury, leather, engine sounds, responsive dealership, no rattles, and lovely buttons everywhere!

BMW does it right, and Tesla is an appliance.

The cost of electricity for my tesla was .14/kwh and had to recharge half the battery every day for 70 miles of commuting. I'm pretty sure it was $80 a month. Gladly spending double that for a 4 cylinder at $5/gallon.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by daytonaviolet

I think having the best of both ends is ideal. Best ICE is bmw. Best EV is tesla. How about best gas guzzling 4wd :-). My 4runner gets 12mpg.

I think post like these are kind of ignorant though.

The idea of owning and driving both EV/ICE is only relevant this decade. The auto makers goal is to stop selling ICE and only sell EV. So the more and more EVs you buy the faster ICE dies. Which of course is not a bad thing for earth.

So if the ideal setup for car people is to have both, then we are screwed.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

I truly despise the move to eliminate the ICE. As much of a gear head i am and love for new cars/tech and working on them this is like the worst possible thing as i am sure for many on these forums. Truth is i would love to own a TESLA and i actually think they look good in white with black trim (well the S does, not the 3/y)...but i can't justify the cost for what you get. I'd rather spend that money on a Audi e-tron. Only "good" looking 3 i saw was the one Matt Moreman built out to the tune of $80-90k or something like that. haha and even it only lasted a year before he tossed it and he wanted it for its auto pilot to help with his OCD/ panic attacks.

You think they look great white and black? So does everyone else on the road with one

[crypto]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I think post like these are kind of ignorant though.

The idea of owning and driving both EV/ICE is only relevant this decade. The auto makers goal is to stop selling ICE and only sell EV. So the more and more EVs you buy the faster ICE dies. Which of course is not a bad thing for earth.

So if the ideal setup for car people is to have both, then we are screwed.

How is it ignorant? It's relevant now as you mention. I don't think he should be posting about how it will suck in 20 years right? That would be.. weird.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by crypto

How is it ignorant? It's relevant now as you mention. I don't think he should be posting about how it will suck in 20 years right? That would be.. weird.

Yea its more like 5-10 years. Get ready for a hybrid 4 cylinder M3, and you can expect the next gen M5 to never have a V8 again.

[daytonaviolet]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I think post like these are kind of ignorant though.

The idea of owning and driving both EV/ICE is only relevant this decade. The auto makers goal is to stop selling ICE and only sell EV. So the more and more EVs you buy the faster ICE dies. Which of course is not a bad thing for earth.

So if the ideal setup for car people is to have both, then we are screwed.

What's ignorant is thinking changes can happen that fast. We all do our part. 🤪