[ricochet]

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Hi all. First post here. I apologize if this is the wrong place for this.

Long-time BMW owner. Without going through my life story, the E39 M5 (03) is my fifth BMW, and I've had it for 15 years. Before that (and a bit concurrently) was the E34 M5. Both amazing vehicles.

In all of its time (and 250k miles), the E39 has only really had 1 major show-stopper repair (chain guides on the front of the engine). Of course some minor things arose -- radiators, water pump, fuel pump, ignition packs, etc. And it is still such a great car today. I love the contact with the road, while still traveling around in luxury.

Anyway, my SO and I have been talking and think it may be soon "time" (due to oil consumption increasing and an estimated 4k worth of cosmetic stuff to bring it back to normal).

Naturally, I expected to lean toward another M5, but after reading and watching tons of reviews last night on the F10, I got a bit worried that I would be moving from one maintenance headache to another maintenance nightmare. And also that it wasn't even the same kind of car the E39 was.

In short, I want a car that keeps the spirit of the E39 M5 while not keeping me on the side of the road all of the time (this will be a daily driver). The F90 looks fascinating, but is of course at a different price, so I would have to really be sure that it's what I would like. And what is maintenance like?

I know this is the wrong place, but I started thinking about actually going off-brand or...who knows. Maybe I'm trying to recapture something I was doing 15-20 years ago, which may be just entirely unreasonable. Am I better of getting an i3 and being done with it, for example.

Not sure what I'm looking for, but any suggestions or guidance would be highly appreciated -- M5, M in general, BMW in general, or even off-brand. Thanks!

[Greer]

As a person who owned an E39 M5 for 10 years I have the perfect next car for you: The 2022 M5 CS. It will give you the raw sports sedan feel of the E39 M5 with a car that you can take to the track and the office.

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by Greer

As a person who owned an E39 M5 for 10 years I have the perfect next car for you: The 2022 M5 CS. It will give you the raw sports sedan feel of the E39 M5 with a car that you can take to the track and the office.

Wow, that thing looks insane! I should have specified that I'm not really willing to shell out the bread for anything brand new (let alone that), as absolutely tempting as that would be.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Boiler Up!]

G20 M340

[ruderegime]

Originally Posted by Boiler Up!

G20 M340

liked

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by Boiler Up!

G20 M340

Fascinating! This hadn't even been on my radar. I'm definitely going to check it out.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Greer

As a person who owned an E39 M5 for 10 years I have the perfect next car for you: The 2022 M5 CS. It will give you the raw sports sedan feel of the E39 M5 with a car that you can take to the track and the office.

Yeah actually this is supposed to be a very comfortable car. If you find the buckets comfortable, I'd going with the M5 CS.

What are you looking to spend and how many seats do you need? Manual or Auto?

[Egrunt]

Keep the E39 M5 and invest the money to bring it back to its glory. While we did not own a M5, I bought my wife a new 2002 525i with the sport package and manual transmission in 2002. I was a hard core Corvette owner at the time and never considered a performance BMW (M vehicle). Now look at me I own a F90 (2018) that I bought new in August of 2018. However I am on a dealers list for the upcoming C8 Z06.

The F90 M5 is a large car when compared to the E39 5 series. I miss my wife's E39 and while it only had 189hp (525i) it was a pleasure to drive. I miss the E46 I bought in 2005 (330CI ZHP) and E39 (5 series).

[AHall]

I would keep the E39 or go for a F80 or F82. That would probably get you something newer and similar in size to the E39. This is setting up to be another "The E39 I sold was such a great car, I wish I had never gotten rid of it" story.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by ricochet

Hi all. First post here. I apologize if this is the wrong place for this.

Long-time BMW owner. Without going through my life story, the E39 M5 (03) is my fifth BMW, and I've had it for 15 years. Before that (and a bit concurrently) was the E34 M5. Both amazing vehicles.

In all of its time (and 250k miles), the E39 has only really had 1 major show-stopper repair (chain guides on the front of the engine). Of course some minor things arose -- radiators, water pump, fuel pump, ignition packs, etc. And it is still such a great car today. I love the contact with the road, while still traveling around in luxury.

Anyway, my SO and I have been talking and think it may be soon "time" (due to oil consumption increasing and an estimated 4k worth of cosmetic stuff to bring it back to normal).

Naturally, I expected to lean toward another M5, but after reading and watching tons of reviews last night on the F10, I got a bit worried that I would be moving from one maintenance headache to another maintenance nightmare. And also that it wasn't even the same kind of car the E39 was.

In short, I want a car that keeps the spirit of the E39 M5 while not keeping me on the side of the road all of the time (this will be a daily driver). The F90 looks fascinating, but is of course at a different price, so I would have to really be sure that it's what I would like. And what is maintenance like?

I know this is the wrong place, but I started thinking about actually going off-brand or...who knows. Maybe I'm trying to recapture something I was doing 15-20 years ago, which may be just entirely unreasonable. Am I better of getting an i3 and being done with it, for example.

Not sure what I'm looking for, but any suggestions or guidance would be highly appreciated -- M5, M in general, BMW in general, or even off-brand. Thanks!

The new G80 M3 Competition is exactly what the E 39 M5 was, same size, same weight, more power though, and you can have it in manual should you wish, well, less two cylinders though.

Otherwise, the F90 M5 is a beast, after two years of ownership I couldn't recommend it more.

[///WeissBisBlau]

Honestly, this sounds like it is really sort of “wide open” for you. I have never even seen one in person, but I have heard that the E39 was supposedly like the be-all end-all M5, and that the F90 is sized more like an old 7-series, so the “M7” that never was. The F90 does not drive like such a large vehicle, and with all the options that you have at your disposal—4WD vs. RWD, switchable, all the M options, etc, not to mention four doors, I honestly cannot imagine a more versatile car. Plus, I mean...it’s fast. Like, legit fast. Out of the box. But it doesn’t have to be. If all you wanna do is toodle down the freeway and enjoy the Bowers & Wilkins system, you can absolutely do that. The car is perfectly happy to do it for you, and it is sublime.

With all that said, and not knowing any more about your particular station in life (kids? Empty nester? Own your home? Etc.). I mean, there are SO many options out there these days.

[MoeMuc]

I still own my e39, not an M5 but a 540i though.
I absolutely admire this car, can just imagine how hard I would fall in love if I had an E39 M5, so I would really recommend you to keep it!

I've also owned a M340i and now I have a F90 M5 Competition, so maybe I can give you some advise.

M340i:
Pros:
- decent quality
- low noise level
- excellent driving dynamics
- brilliant 6-cylinder engine, power distribution similar to NA V8s of old days
- in terms of dimensions: closest you can get to your E39 M5

Cons:
- meh sound (imo)
- not a Full M-Car
- lack of "specialiness"
- good but very boring gearbox

M5C
Pros:
- lunatic performance
- V8
- very decent quality
- incredible driving dynamics (objectively)
- looks amazing (depends on your taste)
- amazing gearbox considering it is an automatic trans. With torque converter
- relatively good fuel consumption

Cons:
- A bit disconnected (you don't always feel how fast you go even though you burned a sub 3 sec. 0-60 on the road, it's insane)
- pretty €xpen$sive for a family sedan!
- its huuuge

Below a few pics of the the mentioned cars. It is close, but the F90 doesn't fit

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Yeah actually this is supposed to be a very comfortable car. If you find the buckets comfortable, I'd going with the M5 CS.

What are you looking to spend and how many seats do you need? Manual or Auto?

My initial plan was to kind of like to keep this under 70k. M5 CS is kind of way out there, even though it seems like an amazing car. 60k and below would really be ideal.

I've been driving sedans for so long, but i don't -necessarily- need one. 99% of the time, it's me in the car solo. The other 1% with my SO.

i love a manual, and I've been driving one for the past 20 years as a daily driver, but I have been psychologically getting ready for the fact that autos are the name of the game now.

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

Keep the E39 M5 and invest the money to bring it back to its glory. While we did not own a M5, I bought my wife a new 2002 525i with the sport package and manual transmission in 2002. I was a hard core Corvette owner at the time and never considered a performance BMW (M vehicle). Now look at me I own a F90 (2018) that I bought new in August of 2018. However I am on a dealers list for the upcoming C8 Z06.

The F90 M5 is a large car when compared to the E39 5 series. I miss my wife's E39 and while it only had 189hp (525i) it was a pleasure to drive. I miss the E46 I bought in 2005 (330CI ZHP) and E39 (5 series).

Thanks for this. I was afraid someone might make this suggestion haha, but you're right -- I definitely have to keep it as one of my options. I was always regretful of letting my E34 go when I went for the E39.

The only thing is the age and mileage. I feel like I've been lucky so far, but I can't walk the tightrope forever, especially with a 50 mi commute to traverse twice a day.

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by AHall

I would keep the E39 or go for a F80 or F82. That would probably get you something newer and similar in size to the E39. This is setting up to be another "The E39 I sold was such a great car, I wish I had never gotten rid of it" story.

Yeah, I hear you. As I was saying to someone else, I did that with my E34 and was forever regretful. However, I had to bench that one back when it was still young.

But at the end of the day, getting rid of one's #1 car is nothing to rush into, and I don't want to be sitting around in 3 years looking for E39 M5s for sale. The F80 looks interesting. Also that G20 M330i. Would almost be possible to have that as a DD and keep the E39. There's a lot to think about for sure!

[FSHNGRY]

Random memory...

When I fell in love with the M5, it was because of an E39 M5. I believe it was in Interlagos Blue, someone correct me if I'm wrong. But he was a family friend of a friend of mine.. blah blah, but I was 15 at the time, and when I sat in the interior and heard him start it, I knew thats when I fell in love with this car. Great blip to think back on

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by brava09

The new G80 M3 Competition is exactly what the E 39 M5 was, same size, same weight, more power though, and you can have it in manual should you wish, well, less two cylinders though.

Otherwise, the F90 M5 is a beast, after two years of ownership I couldn't recommend it more.

Was just watching a video on the G80. Looks like an incredible machine.

You make a valid point. In my mind the M3 is an E36 sized vehicle, but that is no longer the case at all. And the spirit with which the G80 was designed seems to be that same one that M-Division used to have when it was hand-building E34s and later designing the E39 (all of this just my impression from me watching videos about the G80, of course).

I wouldn't mind the lack of 2 cylinders at all. I loved the S38 with a passion. And a stick option is refreshing. I know the auto boxes are faster and better now, but I am not a tracker anyway, so it's the experience that counts.

All that said, the F90 does seem amazing. At some point, I'm going to have to start driving these cars to really home in on the best fit/feel for me.

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by ///WeissBisBlau

Honestly, this sounds like it is really sort of “wide open” for you. I have never even seen one in person, but I have heard that the E39 was supposedly like the be-all end-all M5, and that the F90 is sized more like an old 7-series, so the “M7” that never was. The F90 does not drive like such a large vehicle, and with all the options that you have at your disposal—4WD vs. RWD, switchable, all the M options, etc, not to mention four doors, I honestly cannot imagine a more versatile car. Plus, I mean...it’s fast. Like, legit fast. Out of the box. But it doesn’t have to be. If all you wanna do is toodle down the freeway and enjoy the Bowers & Wilkins system, you can absolutely do that. The car is perfectly happy to do it for you, and it is sublime.

With all that said, and not knowing any more about your particular station in life (kids? Empty nester? Own your home? Etc.). I mean, there are SO many options out there these days.

Interesting take. That actually sums up the overall feeling I've been getting from reviews (mainly on the F10, but a bit on the F90): that the the "features" that one might be able complain about (e.g., size, disconnection/isolation) hearken to a move toward what the 7 series stands for more than the 5 (at least as they were in their earlier concepts).

An M7 always sounded like an awesome idea, albeit a bit contradictory, but maybe this was their way of bringing those flagship elements of the 7 series to their "flagship" M car (the M5).

All that said, it seems from your comments and those of the others that, while the F90 seems big, it's actually quite nimble and really good and what it does...almost too good! I'm going to have to try it before making any decision, that's for sure.

To answer your question, I have a 50-mile each direction commute, no children -- just my other half and me and our dogs (which 99% are in her SUV). It's really just me in the car almost all the time.

That's one of the other things that has me unsure of what to do: I'm not in the same place in life I was when I got my E39. I'm not going to be touring with this car (if we travel, we take the SUV), so it's not going to get to see all of the interesting things my E39 did. Hell, maybe I just need an i3 lol.

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by BRCHP

Random memory...

When I fell in love with the M5, it was because of an E39 M5. I believe it was in Interlagos Blue, someone correct me if I'm wrong. But he was a family friend of a friend of mine.. blah blah, but I was 15 at the time, and when I sat in the interior and heard him start it, I knew thats when I fell in love with this car. Great blip to think back on

Awesome story. It's weird how those little experiences can be so cemented in our memories.

I believe it would have had to have been either Avus Blue or Le Mans Blue. Interlagos was an E60 color, if I'm not mistaken.

Regardless, both were very pretty colors.

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by MoeMuc

I still own my e39, not an M5 but a 540i though.
I absolutely admire this car, can just imagine how hard I would fall in love if I had an E39 M5, so I would really recommend you to keep it!

I've also owned a M340i and now I have a F90 M5 Competition, so maybe I can give you some advise.

M340i:
Pros:
- decent quality
- low noise level
- excellent driving dynamics
- brilliant 6-cylinder engine, power distribution similar to NA V8s of old days
- in terms of dimensions: closest you can get to your E39 M5

Cons:
- meh sound (imo)
- not a Full M-Car
- lack of "specialiness"
- good but very boring gearbox

M5C
Pros:
- lunatic performance
- V8
- very decent quality
- incredible driving dynamics (objectively)
- looks amazing (depends on your taste)
- amazing gearbox considering it is an automatic trans. With torque converter
- relatively good fuel consumption

Cons:
- A bit disconnected (you don't always feel how fast you go even though you burned a sub 3 sec. 0-60 on the road, it's insane)
- pretty €xpen$sive for a family sedan!
- its huuuge

Below a few pics of the the mentioned cars. It is close, but the F90 doesn't fit

I want to really thank you for this detailed write-up. This is the kind of detail I can really use to help me weigh things out.

Yeah, I love my E39. But I know it can't go on forever. I could drop 6k in the next month just doing cosmetics and a few mechanical repairs. And who knows what's around the corner. I'm averaging a liter of oil every 2-3 weeks, which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I'm just trying to think of the future now before it hits me in the face and puts me in a situation where I have to make a rush decision.

It's too bad that M340i doesn't come with a manual box -- it honestly seems like a really good fit for my current use-case in life.

[BMWCAT]

As a owner of both E39 and F90 (like some above)
No matter what you ended up getting, keep the E39 if you’re able to! I’ve heard way too many regrets after they sold the car...

In the sense F90 is not a real “replacement” to e39, more so 2 different “M5s” that BMW made to suit consumer’s needs in different era. And heck they both do well to fulfill that goal! Comparing them will be like apple to oranges.

However..

If you’re looking for the raw, N/A spirit of the e39, here are a few to look into..
1. Chevy SS (in Stick, of course. Reviewed by Car and Driver as a true “successor” to the e39) if you’re ok of finding a used one and not too worried about the interior of course.
2. New 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing in 6-speed manual (supercharged V8 and the manual will surely be a lot more raw compare to the F90!) Cadillac performance division is doing some pretty hardcore things nowadays.
2. Lexus GSF and its N/A V8 glory. No stick available, but the noise and handling is pretty good while being a large/posh sedan (and I imagine the reliability too, it’s a Lexus after all!)
3. Upcoming Lexus IS500 F sport. Lexus finally put that glorious N/A V8 in the IS platform!

[ricochet]

Originally Posted by BMWCAT

As a owner of both E39 and F90 (like some above)
No matter what you ended up getting, keep the E39 if you’re able to! I’ve heard way too many regrets after they sold the car...

In the sense F90 is not a real “replacement” to e39, more so 2 different “M5s” that BMW made to suit consumer’s needs in different era. And heck they both do well to fulfill that goal! Comparing them will be like apple to oranges.

However..

If you’re looking for the raw, N/A spirit of the e39, here are a few to look into..
1. Chevy SS (in Stick, of course. Reviewed by Car and Driver as a true “successor” to the e39) if you’re ok of finding a used one and not too worried about the interior of course.
2. New 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing in 6-speed manual (supercharged V8 and the manual will surely be a lot more raw compare to the F90!) Cadillac performance division is doing some pretty hardcore things nowadays.
2. Lexus GSF and its N/A V8 glory. No stick available, but the noise and handling is pretty good while being a large/posh sedan (and I imagine the reliability too, it’s a Lexus after all!)
3. Upcoming Lexus IS500 F sport. Lexus finally put that glorious N/A V8 in the IS platform!

Your cars are beautiful, thanks for the pics!

I will really consider what you said. Let's face it, the E39 isn't going to net me a windfall of cash at this point, and it's still plenty driveable (after a few coil pack replacements). You're right: even the E34 and E39 were two very different cars. I'll definitely consider the F90 and see if it's the right choice.

One topic I hadn't really kicked around yet is maintenance: how do you all feel the F90 holds up? I know it's really early, but I'd like to get an idea of that end of things as well. Granted, the extended warranty is always a must, but I don't like being in the shop, regardless of who's paying.

Finally, I'll definitely check out some of these other cars. It feels weird to even consider them after so many years of BMW ownership, but I am trying to go into this decision with an open mind, so thanks for the great suggestions.