[usmabmass]

Originally Posted by elitex

I agree with you. M5 should be THE variant, period. Make it the best from start. Stop with the whole Comp and CS bull crap. If it's too sporty for people then there's always the M550xi for them.

After all, it is a business.

Yup, while this makes sense philosophically, from a business standpoint, of course they're going to have all of these levels.

There are tons of people (relatively) who are willing to pay 95-115k for an M5. But the brand is strong enough that there are people who are also willing to pay 150k or more if it was special enough.

having these different lines is what let's them take advantage of the fact that there are people who are willing to pay much more than someone else, so they can capture as many sales as possible without throwing away the 20-40k per car from the people who would be willing to pay more.

gotta snatch that consumer surplus!

[advantage20]

Don't get bogged down over what the CS badge should stand for. As it's now been established, CS is just the next step after Competition in a given M model's range, just like 2 is followed by 3. If a given M model is set to be getting a more focused version above Competition, then it will be named CS, no matter which model it is (M2, M5...). All CS models receive upgrades in the same areas overall (more power, more lightweight parts, stiffer chassis...), but the extent of each upgrade area depends on the model: an M2 CS or M4 CS will primarily focus on lightweight savings at the expense of comfort, while an M5 CS will primarily focus on sheer extra power without overly sacrificing comfort and luxury features.

The next step above CS in the M hierarchy in all likelihood will be CSL (exit GTS) and will expectedly only be offered on 2 door coupés (M2, M4, maybe M8?). Again some people will be complaining that some of those models won't be light enough to be deserving the historical CSL badge, but the market has evolved since and certain safety and comfort features simply cannot be dismissed anymore. Then again, the CSL badge will simply indicate it's the model above CS, whatever that will actually mean, and won't be bound to only deliver extreme lightweight savings as it might have in the past.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by advantage20

Don't get bogged down over what the CS badge should stand for. As it's now been established, CS is just the next step after Competition in a given M model's range, just like 2 is followed by 3. If a given M model is set to be getting a more focused version above Competition, then it will be named CS, no matter which model it is (M2, M5...). All CS models receive upgrades in the same areas overall (more power, more lightweight parts, stiffer chassis...), but the extent of each upgrade area depends on the model: an M2 CS or M4 CS will primarily focus on lightweight savings at the expense of comfort, while an M5 CS will primarily focus on sheer extra power without overly sacrificing comfort and luxury features.

The next step above CS in the M hierarchy in all likelihood will be CSL (exit GTS) and will expectedly only be offered on 2 door coupés (M2, M4, maybe M8?). Again some people will be complaining that some of those models won't be light enough to be deserving the historical CSL badge, but the market has evolved since and certain safety and comfort features simply cannot be dismissed anymore. Then again, the CSL badge will simply indicate it's the model above CS, whatever that will actually mean, and won't be bound to only deliver extreme lightweight savings as it might have in the past.

Agreed. Same thing happened with the taycan release. Many forum members were scolding Porsche for calling an electric car a turbo and turbo S.

[AUSf22]

I wonder when the release is for this one, so many new BMWs lately but I guess the biggest one is the G8X M3 M4

[Greer]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

I wonder when the release is for this one, so many new BMWs lately but I guess the biggest one is the G8X M3 M4

Have you seen spy shots of the front end of the M4? Just Bad!

[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Greer

Have you seen spy shots of the front end of the M4? Just Bad!

I have to agree with you there, the M5 LCI CS is probably the best looking out of the bunch!

[JayPichardo]

ooooh me likes

[elitex]

Originally Posted by usmabmass

Yup, while this makes sense philosophically, from a business standpoint, of course they're going to have all of these levels.

There are tons of people (relatively) who are willing to pay 95-115k for an M5. But the brand is strong enough that there are people who are also willing to pay 150k or more if it was special enough.

having these different lines is what let's them take advantage of the fact that there are people who are willing to pay much more than someone else, so they can capture as many sales as possible without throwing away the 20-40k per car from the people who would be willing to pay more.

gotta snatch that consumer surplus!

I understand that it makes business sense and they are in it for the money, obviously. Point I am trying to make is that some of the CS changes could've been done without additional cost on comp model but they dumbed it down on purpose.

Perfect example is M4 comp and M4 CS..... CS with Competition interior should've been the standard model M4. Then they should release CS as a super hardcore version. Or scrap the CS and make more of CSL's....

I am sure they are spending millions on data scientists that are telling them otherwise.

[ddec432]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Agreed. Same thing happened with the taycan release. Many forum members were scolding Porsche for calling an electric car a turbo and turbo S.

Yup. All it is is trim levels at this point. In the case of Porsche, basically every engine uses a turbo now; the trim nomenclature still goes from base to S to turbo to turbo S even though they all have turbos. Same as bmw M with base, comp, cs, and csl. Means not a whole lot in terms of being super light weight/stripped out or anything like that from what I gather.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by ddec432

Yup. All it is is trim levels at this point. In the case of Porsche, basically every engine uses a turbo now; the trim nomenclature still goes from base to S to turbo to turbo S even though they all have turbos. Same as bmw M with base, comp, cs, and csl. Means not a whole lot in terms of being super light weight/stripped out or anything like that from what I gather.

Don't forget M sport lol

[jpan08]

BMW holding out on their m models now for their m cs line. I'm not a fan. An m car is supposed to be the Pinnacle not a second place

[Greer]

Originally Posted by jpan08

BMW holding out on their m models now for their m cs line. I'm not a fan. An m car is supposed to be the Pinnacle not a second place

Always remember, M stands for money.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Greer

Always remember, M stands for money.

///Marketing as Albert Biernmann would say.

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by Aronis

Does the i-drive work properly with the iPhone for streaming from any app other than GODDAM iTunes???????

That is ALL that matters to me. And it must have a sunroof.

Mike

Mate iTunes max fidelity is 256 mbts vs CD which is 1000 something. I'd plug in if you want to actually enjoy that H/K stereo

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by SM2

Why does BMW dilute the CS name? what's the point of a lighter weight luxury cruiser?

M5 is not a luxury cruiser. It's a mid sized sedan With a track set up. Alpina exists to make BMWs into luxury cruisers and instead of being sport and sport plus is comfort and comfort plus

[SM2]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

M5 is not a luxury cruiser. It's a mid sized sedan With a track set up. Alpina exists to make BMWs into luxury cruisers and instead of being sport and sport plus is comfort and comfort plus

Since when is 4,400 pound 5 series not not a cruiser?

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by SM2

Since when is 4,400 pound 5 series not not a cruiser?

M5 vanilla weighs in at 4080lbs or something. But it's an odd duck from a design goal perspective since it's fat and has vented seats but it's still set up to go fast on a track not hide bumps from your lower back.

You get what I mean? Alpina makes the 5 series comfy and M makes it 'fast'.

If more people realized that M meant MOTORSPORT we probably wouldn't see the M brand being watered down to soft auto only electronic steering cars. But it does still follow the basic formula of taking a bmw car (5 series, 3 series, X4) and making to fast on the track, as silly as that seems for some cars. But fast on a track usually means it loses its fundamentally comfortable ride.

If it was truly a luxury cruiser it wouldn't piss my wife off when he hit a few bumps in the road

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

M5 vanilla weighs in at 4080lbs or something. But it's an odd duck from a design goal perspective since it's fat and has vented seats but it's still set up to go fast on a track not hide bumps from your lower back.

You get what I mean? Alpina makes the 5 series comfy and M makes it 'fast'.

If more people realized that M meant MOTORSPORT we probably wouldn't see the M brand being watered down to soft auto only electronic steering cars. But it does still follow the basic formula of taking a bmw car (5 series, 3 series, X4) and making to fast on the track, as silly as that seems for some cars. But fast on a track usually means it loses its fundamentally comfortable ride.

If it was truly a luxury cruiser it wouldn't piss my wife off when he hit a few bumps in the road

BMW USA states the regular M5 weighs 4370lbs. Not sure where you got your numbers from.

Regardless of weight, its a luxury cruiser, the car is incredibly isolated in feel and is covered in leather and has a lot of luxury car features. Definitely a cruiser, a lot of people on the F90 forums buy it because of the fact that it can be a cruiser due to its dual nature and doesn't piss off their wives like an E63S would while still being able to haul their children and provide some fun on a backroad.

If you want a car that does follow your example, the X3/4M is that, incredibly harsh ride despite being a family SUV. The M5 is pretty soft by M standards.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

Mate iTunes max fidelity is 256 mbts vs CD which is 1000 something. I'd plug in if you want to actually enjoy that H/K stereo

It's for listening to spoke word from apps OTHER than iTunes....LOL..

Mike

[Boss330]

BMW isn't dumb and recognizes that M customers aren't a homogenous group that all have the same preferences.

You could probably divide the M customer base BMW want to appeal to into 4 categories:

1. The basic M buyer who wants the performance and looks of a M car, but use the car as a daily driver and family car.

2. The buyer who wants the upgraded version but still mostly as a DD and family car.

3. The more hardcore enthusiast who wants a track tool that also is bearable as a DD, but has sacrifices in amenities due to it's nature as a more track biased car. This buyer is mostly using this car for weekends and track days.

4. The hardcore enthusiast that wants a pure track oriented car.

If BMW only offered one of the above models they would leave out a huge customer base. And I am personally very excited to see BMW offering these more hardcore track oriented models! We should applaude them for doing that IMHO!

Oh, and have anyone counted how many 911 models Porsche offers?

Carrera
GTS
Turbo
Turbo S
GT3
GT3 RS
GT2 RS

I doubt anyone here would hate on Porsche for offering the GT2 and GT3 models and suggesting they should just stick to the base Carrera...

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by jstein55

BMW USA states the regular M5 weighs 4370lbs. Not sure where you got your numbers from.

Regardless of weight, its a luxury cruiser, the car is incredibly isolated in feel and is covered in leather and has a lot of luxury car features. Definitely a cruiser, a lot of people on the F90 forums buy it because of the fact that it can be a cruiser due to its dual nature and doesn't piss off their wives like an E63S would while still being able to haul their children and provide some fun on a backroad.

If you want a car that does follow your example, the X3/4M is that, incredibly harsh ride despite being a family SUV. The M5 is pretty soft by M standards.

I disagree and I own one. There's no reason to buy M over 550i if you want a cruiser

[Graves]

What a waste of money. Unbelievable how much gets charged for 30 extra hp.