[SamS]

Miata @ 2,300lbs - manual makes sense and is fun
M5 @ 4,600lbs - manual... uh what?

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by SamS

Miata @ 2,300lbs - manual makes sense and is fun
M5 @ 4,600lbs - manual... uh what?

3.7 0-60. Even if that's not a manual I'm sure the manual is still sub-4s. What does it matter, really?

[SamS]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

3.7 0-60. Even if that's not a manual I'm sure the manual is still sub-4s. What does it matter, really?

I didn't say anything about being a faster car.

[48Laws]

You implied weight was an issue. Show me a stock Miata that can do sub 4s. Lmao.

[MParallel]

Originally Posted by Chicken_Joe

Garbage! BMW is the last car company to offer a proper gearbox for a full size sedan and/ or coupe!

They also offere a FWD familiy fan.

It's inevitable.

Then bring back NA engines as well.

[MParallel]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No surprise.

Now the question is, will the next generation M3/M4 move to DCT as the standard transmission and offer the manual as the no-cost option. This is how all of the series cars are sold. This would increase the base price for those who prefer the manual.

Here in the Netherlands, because of emission based taxes, a manual M2 costs €6000 more than the DCT.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

You implied weight was an issue. Show me a stock Miata that can do sub 4s. Lmao.

Weight is an issue when it comes to "fun to drive via manual transmission". 0-60 times are no indicator of an enjoyable/engaging car.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by SamS

Weight is an issue when it comes to "fun to drive via manual transmission". 0-60 times are no indicator of an enjoyable/engaging car.

No it's not! That makes no sense. I just provided evidence a heavier M5 is still quick/fast. To the enthusiast, quick/fast is largely regarded as a metric for measuring fun. C'mon.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by N.S.A

Oh wow they are gonna have complete different chassis ?

No. They simply have different codes.

M cars have always had different suspension, steering, drivetrain components. This, of course, will continue. What may also happen now that the flexible CLAR architecture is being used is that M cars may have more CF construction in the chassis (i.e. not just more CF components or body panels as is the case sometimes today). However, this has yet to be confirmed.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No. They simply have different codes.

M cars have always had different suspension, steering, drivetrain components. This, of course, will continue. What may also happen now that the flexible CLAR architecture is being used is that M cars may have more CF construction in the chassis (i.e. not just more CF components or body panels as is the case sometimes today). However, this has yet to be confirmed.

Yeah for sure. I knew they have different suspension of course. Just since the m5 and m3 last generations as well as other cars have all been the same as far as f10 and e90 and e92 so that's why I was confused that's cool though. Thanks Man for the info

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by N.S.A

Yeah for sure. I knew they have different suspension of course. Just since the m5 and m3 last generations as well as other cars have all been the same as far as f10 and e90 and e92...

Right, but as I had said in an earlier post, starting with the M3/M4 two years ago, all M products since have had their own unique codes:

F80 M3
F82 M4
F83 M4
F85 X5 M
F86 X6 M
F87 M2
...
F90 M5
F97 X3 M
F98 X4 M
...
etc.

[MiamiFan13]

Saw this coming when the SMG's hit the market. Almost immediately they started outselling the manuals....and this was when the manual was superior. SMG's were pathetic...face it.

Was it the enthusiast/purists, for whom the first M's were built for, that were buying the SMG's?? HELL NO!!!!!!!!

Those SMGs allowed everyone to play. All the guys who couldn't drive stick or wouldn't buy a car if their wife couldn't drive it could now buy the top of the line model and not be stuck with a 330i or 545i. The amount of M cars on the streets multiplied exponentially it seemed.

Its obvious that the majority of M car owners are NOT the same ones who bought the first few generations of M cars. Those early owners were all-in on the ultimate driving experience....and half of the fun was rowing your own gears. They don't make up a large number of the population, but they had their niche and certain car companies obliged.

I respect the DCT. If I had to win a race, I would choose a DCT over manual. When driving at the limit, I'd have enough on my plate keeping the car on the track, a DCT is better. HOWEVER, on the street we cannot drive the car to its limit, so most of the fun is shifting the car ourselves.....it's what makes up most of the driving experience. At the same time, I'd bet that most DCT drivers don't shift their car manually anyway.

I get a kick out of the 6MT bashers who justify the DCT for being "better technology". It tells you everything you need to know about them. Don't they realize that most of the really fun cars to drive have the least technology?? Like I said, most of the current M owners are not who the breed was intended for, and if DCT's were on the way out, they would be too.

It's sad that BMW was forced to sell out. Pressure from the government and investors forced their hand. I wish they could have at least kept the M5 with a manual option. Maybe if they painted all of them black they could save a little bit of coin. Something tells me those buyers wouldn't mind that at all.

BMW still makes nice cars....but the " Ultimate Driving Machine" image has really taken a beating. Pumping fake engine noise thru the car's speakers and now dropping a manual gearbox option from 2 M cars is very hard to swallow.

[visualguy]

It's all becoming irrelevant anyway with the move to hybrid and electric powertrains.

Polluting the environment with exhaust fumes will become less and less acceptable as alternative powertrains become more prevalent.

[48Laws]

Lol. You will never eliminate petrol companies. Ever! Don't let Elon's success confuse you.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Right, but as I had said in an earlier post, starting with the M3/M4 two years ago, all M products since have had their own unique codes:

F80 M3
F82 M4
F83 M4
F85 X5 M
F86 X6 M
F87 M2
...
F90 M5
F97 X3 M
F98 X4 M
...
etc.

That's really cool. That's the way it should be since they are different cars basically

Thanks for the Info brotha ��

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by N.S.A

That's really cool. That's the way it should be since they are different cars basically

Thanks for the Info brotha ��

I owned the first true M-car; E30 M3.
Nothing like it before and no matter what anyone says, nothing like it since.

(Flame suit on!)

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

I owned the first true M-car; E30 M3.
Nothing like it before and no matter what anyone says, nothing like it since.

(Flame suit on!)

Wow that's amazing man such a Beauty that one is.

I feel like the e92 m3 are the best ones for my tasting

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by EzequielR

I understand why they are getting rid of it, but it would be cool if they kept it around.

Also, I remember reading in the M5 forums that there was a 6MT owner who was not happy with the tranny, as it felt like it was not intended for the car. This same owner test drove a DCT and validated his "theory". Although that was the opinion of only one person it definitely intrigued me while reading it.

Would you rather have a flawless DCT or a sluggish 6MT? Based off the story above. Personally, I would choose DCT on an M5, but I will be choosing 6MT for my upcoming F80 build.

Same thing happened to the E60 M5. The engine was optimized for the SMG and they had to shoehorn a 6sp just to make the US market happy.

[EzequielR]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Same thing happened to the E60 M5. The engine was optimized for the SMG and they had to shoehorn a 6sp just to make the US market happy.

really? I've heard quite the opposite. Most people hated the "jolty-ness" of the SMG. Opting for the 6MT.

Call me weird but I'm a few months shy of my 21st birthday and I very much prefer a 6MT over the DCT. On the contrary, most of my transfer student friends are die hard DCT fans. I think it's all culture influenced when speaking about preference.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by MiamiFan13

Saw this coming when the SMG's hit the market. Almost immediately they started outselling the manuals....and this was when the manual was superior. SMG's were pathetic...face it.

Was it the enthusiast/purists, for whom the first M's were built for, that were buying the SMG's?? HELL NO!!!!!!!!

Those SMGs allowed everyone to play. All the guys who couldn't drive stick or wouldn't buy a car if their wife couldn't drive it could now buy the top of the line model and not be stuck with a 330i or 545i. The amount of M cars on the streets multiplied exponentially it seemed.

Its obvious that the majority of M car owners are NOT the same ones who bought the first few generations of M cars. Those early owners were all-in on the ultimate driving experience....and half of the fun was rowing your own gears. They don't make up a large number of the population, but they had their niche and certain car companies obliged.

I respect the DCT. If I had to win a race, I would choose a DCT over manual. When driving at the limit, I'd have enough on my plate keeping the car on the track, a DCT is better. HOWEVER, on the street we cannot drive the car to its limit, so most of the fun is shifting the car ourselves.....it's what makes up most of the driving experience. At the same time, I'd bet that most DCT drivers don't shift their car manually anyway.

I get a kick out of the 6MT bashers who justify the DCT for being "better technology". It tells you everything you need to know about them. Don't they realize that most of the really fun cars to drive have the least technology?? Like I said, most of the current M owners are not who the breed was intended for, and if DCT's were on the way out, they would be too.

It's sad that BMW was forced to sell out. Pressure from the government and investors forced their hand. I wish they could have at least kept the M5 with a manual option. Maybe if they painted all of them black they could save a little bit of coin. Something tells me those buyers wouldn't mind that at all.

BMW still makes nice cars....but the " Ultimate Driving Machine" image has really taken a beating. Pumping fake engine noise thru the car's speakers and now dropping a manual gearbox option from 2 M cars is very hard to swallow.

The manual drivers are a funny lot. Initially it was "Manuals are faster around the track than any slushbox", Then SMG and DCT came out and all of a sudden the manual drivers were going on about "I feel so much more connected to the road, so much blah blah blah." or "Cheaper to maintain". Gone was the "Faster on the track" argument. So which is it?

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Lol. You will never eliminate petrol companies. Ever! Don't let Elon's success confuse you.

It's not just Elon's success, it's the success of electric cars.

Arguing about manual vs automatic is becoming increasingly anachronistic. Powertrain technology is changing, and this makes the transmission discussion irrelevant to where things are going in this industry. It's the same with engine sound discussions, etc.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by EzequielR

really? I've heard quite the opposite. Most people hated the "jolty-ness" of the SMG. Opting for the 6MT.

Call me weird but I'm a few months shy of my 21st birthday and I very much prefer a 6MT over the DCT. On the contrary, most of my transfer student friends are die hard DCT fans. I think it's all culture influenced when speaking about preference.

The SMG was jolty when driven like an auto. BMW intended to kill the manual with the E60 M5, but relented mid-cycle for US market only (IIRC it was only avail in US)