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      02-12-2019, 03:33 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
For starters, a simple list of products with actual dyno gains and charts next to each. Instead it seems I am forced to wade through a large quantity of conflicting information, manufacturers claims that appear to be flat out false, and a general lack of verified data.

Then, in an enthusiast forum, I would expect to see real dyno comparisons into infinity for every possible combination of performance mods.
To me, you need to lower your expectations. This isn't a paid service that is under-delivering. Somebody has to wade through the available data and create that list--so why not you? You say that you're "forced" to wade through large quantities--you're not forced to do it--if you want to know, then ask... or step up and create it yourself.

This is indeed an enthusiast's forum... for a vehicle that's only been out a year. This is how long it takes.

I think it's fair to say our expectations of these forums differ wildly.
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      02-12-2019, 03:35 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
So
That's 622+ the 15% AWD driver-train loss? So about 730-740 HP at the crank?
That's why I ignore those corrections. It measured 555 no RC, then measured 622 with RC, plus a better curve up top. Gained 67rwhp. Is the loss 15%, 12% ???? I don't really care.
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      02-12-2019, 03:39 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
So
That's 622+ the 15% AWD driver-train loss? So about 730-740 HP at the crank?
That's why I ignore those corrections. It measured 555 no RC, then measured 622 with RC, plus a better curve up top. Gained 67rwhp. Is the loss 15%, 12% ???? I don't really care.
It's 10.7% increase in power and about 12% increase in power!

Not too shabby,
And of course you're referencing Map 7
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      02-12-2019, 03:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Me too
Seriously !!!
I really don't understand what it is you guys are not seeing... unless you're commenting specifically about the RC?
Yes
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      02-12-2019, 03:41 PM   #49
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Yes
Ah, understood.

It looks like we have some of those numbers now.
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      02-12-2019, 04:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Ah, understood.

It looks like we have some of those numbers now.
We have had the numbers. There are multiple threads.
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      02-12-2019, 05:06 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Ah, understood.

It looks like we have some of those numbers now.
We have had the numbers. There are multiple threads.
Noted, but can't seem to find a lot of data SEA LEVEL
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      02-12-2019, 05:09 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
For starters, a simple list of products with actual dyno gains and charts next to each. Instead it seems I am forced to wade through a large quantity of conflicting information, manufacturers claims that appear to be flat out false, and a general lack of verified data.

Then, in an enthusiast forum, I would expect to see real dyno comparisons into infinity for every possible combination of performance mods.
Life is a lot easier without that level of expectation.
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      02-12-2019, 05:12 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
To me, you need to lower your expectations. This isn't a paid service that is under-delivering. Somebody has to wade through the available data and create that list--so why not you? You say that you're "forced" to wade through large quantities--you're not forced to do it--if you want to know, then ask... or step up and create it yourself.

This is indeed an enthusiast's forum... for a vehicle that's only been out a year. This is how long it takes.

I think it's fair to say our expectations of these forums differ wildly.
I should have went through the entire thread. You would have saved me a post.

I don't know why people expect anything. New platform modding takes time - and if the info isn't good enough here - go elsewhere and find (or create) more and bring it back to us to benefit the community instead of complaining you are having to look too hard.
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      02-12-2019, 06:20 PM   #54
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Sorry, I disagree. For example, I would just point to the thread that attempts to directly compare RC, JB4 and BMS. It's surprising to me that, for example, not only is there conflicting information in the thread itself but there are in some cases no reliable information even available from the manufacturer! Is this expectation unreasonable? You are welcome to think it is, I do not.

Furthermore, regarding posts from people in the industry with dyno access...it is not a matter of me demanding information but rather that I'm surprised this is not more widely, publicly discussed by industry insiders.

Thank you though for taking the time to point out that you think my expectations are out of line I appreciate your contribution to the topic.
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      02-12-2019, 06:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Sorry, I disagree. For example, I would just point to the thread that attempts to directly compare RC, JB4 and BMS. It's surprising to me that, for example, not only is there conflicting information in the thread itself but there are in some cases no reliable information even available from the manufacturer! Is this expectation unreasonable? You are welcome to think it is, I do not.

Furthermore, regarding posts from people in the industry with dyno access...it is not a matter of me demanding information but rather that I'm surprised this is not more widely, publicly discussed by industry insiders.

Thank you though for taking the time to point out that you think my expectations are out of line I appreciate your contribution to the topic.
Can't disagree with that,
Makes sense
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      02-12-2019, 06:45 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Noted, but can't seem to find a lot of data SEA LEVEL
Thats because you are constantly under water.
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      02-12-2019, 06:46 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Noted, but can't seem to find a lot of data SEA LEVEL
Thats because you are constantly under water.
Meaning ?
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      02-12-2019, 06:50 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Meaning ?
Sorry I was being a smart ass and you know Im very good at that.

The data on RC has been posted more in the tuning section than the VS section where we are right now...

onfireX5
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and a few others that are just members and not sellers have posted their draggys and onfire has gone even further with multiple posts about "deltas" and whats meaningful. Im just sometimes confused as to your posts since you ALREADY have the product. Pardon my bluntness- no offense intended sir.
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      02-12-2019, 06:54 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Meaning ?
Sorry I was being a smart ass and you know Im very good at that.

The data on RC has been posted more in the tuning section than the VS section where we are right now...

onfireX5
Miko M

and a few others that are just members and not sellers have posted their draggys and onfire has gone even further with multiple posts about "deltas" and whats meaningful. Im just sometimes confused as to your posts since you ALREADY have the product. Pardon my bluntness- no offense intended sir.
Non taken
I was just curious to see a side by side comparison
Race Chip : M5C : JB4

That's all
I can see why you would wonder why am I doing this boredom? LOL

I'm gonna watch this Ray Romano new Netflix special and I should feel better HahaHaha
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      02-12-2019, 06:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Non taken
I was just curious to see a side by side comparison
Race Chip : M5C : JB4

That's all
I can see why you would wonder why am I doing this boredom? LOL

I'm gonna watch this Ray Romano new Netflix special and I should feel better HahaHaha
ok now im just scared
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      02-12-2019, 06:56 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by soooma View Post
Meaning ?
Sorry I was being a smart ass and you know Im very good at that.

The data on RC has been posted more in the tuning section than the VS section where we are right now...

onfireX5
Miko M

and a few others that are just members and not sellers have posted their draggys and onfire has gone even further with multiple posts about "deltas" and whats meaningful. Im just sometimes confused as to your posts since you ALREADY have the product. Pardon my bluntness- no offense intended sir.
Non taken
I was just curious to see a side by side comparison
Race Chip : M5C : JB4

That's all
I can see why you would wonder why am I doing this boredom? LOL

I'm gonna watch this Ray Romano new Netflix special and I should feel better HahaHaha
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      02-12-2019, 07:14 PM   #62
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I wish I could done more pulls to have more data. Most of mine pulls were done in late October I run out off time because off winter tires swap.

I noticed that on map 7 tires were spinning like crazy ....one big factor was cooler temperature 45F-50F
Did many pulls but the best was 11.3 for 1/4 mil

Not long after I end up putting winter tires and end up having better results 11.18 Lol

I really wish I could done this at 70-80F temperature and stickier and wider tires.

On Map 7 with more boost is really lighting up those stock tires
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      02-12-2019, 10:16 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Sorry, I disagree. For example, I would just point to the thread that attempts to directly compare RC, JB4 and BMS. It's surprising to me that, for example, not only is there conflicting information in the thread itself but there are in some cases no reliable information even available from the manufacturer! Is this expectation unreasonable? You are welcome to think it is, I do not.

Furthermore, regarding posts from people in the industry with dyno access...it is not a matter of me demanding information but rather that I'm surprised this is not more widely, publicly discussed by industry insiders.

Thank you though for taking the time to point out that you think my expectations are out of line I appreciate your contribution to the topic.
What information is not available from the manufacturer? When a platform is first released - it is all testing. It is in beta - as are most of the people who are first to use it. The cars have not been out long enough for consistent data.

And you are welcome.
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      02-12-2019, 10:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Sorry, I disagree. For example, I would just point to the thread that attempts to directly compare RC, JB4 and BMS. It's surprising to me that, for example, not only is there conflicting information in the thread itself but there are in some cases no reliable information even available from the manufacturer! Is this expectation unreasonable? You are welcome to think it is, I do not.

Furthermore, regarding posts from people in the industry with dyno access...it is not a matter of me demanding information but rather that I'm surprised this is not more widely, publicly discussed by industry insiders.

Thank you though for taking the time to point out that you think my expectations are out of line I appreciate your contribution to the topic.
What information is not available from the manufacturer? When a platform is first released - it is all testing. It is in beta - as are most of the people who are first to use it. The cars have not been out long enough for consistent data.

And you are welcome.
Putting aside the somewhat rude tone of your initial reply to my post, as an example, the numbers published by RC not only lack detail for various maps and settings but apparently are far, far off from real world experiences of various members. Some have called them out right lies, I will generously call them simply not accurate.
To complicate matters, various members have themselves posted numbers which are wildly inconsistent. In fact, I have seen the same member post radically different numbers even the same thread which not only makes little sense but just further confuses what should not be a very complicated thing to suss out.
You can be assured that if I had any real world experience with any of these tunes, I would publish my own personal experience in great detail in the hopes that it might help someone. In fact, I often share the experience I do have, such as it is, toward that end.
To answer your question of why I am not collating this data myself, I'm not going to disseminate information that I can't verify and don't trust to begin with.
To me, this all seems quite reasonable. If this somehow seems unreasonable to you, I'll respect your right to form your own opinion. But your disrespectful tone is uncalled for and certainly says more about you than the veracity of my opinions.
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      02-12-2019, 11:04 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
.
"Pimpsy". I am going to answer your post inline, in RED.

Putting aside the somewhat rude tone Fair point - I find your tone whiny and entitled - unnecessarily soof your initial reply to my post, as an example, the numbers published by RC not only lack detail for various maps and settings but apparently are far, far off from real world experiences of various members.
I have went over this already. These are beta tunes. The platform has not been out long enough yet to get enough data for consistent alpha products. This has happened for literally every platform. I am not sure if you are someone with experience modding, but if you were - you would know that. The "far far off" comment also makes me question your experience as DA, track, driver, car condition, tires and a few others makes consistent ET and MPH almost impossible to quantify - unless they are same day, track, driver, car and conditions.
Some have called them out right lies, I will generously call them simply not accurate. I would call them incomplete. I still have no idea why you think the maturity of the product should be as high as you expect it.
To complicate matters, various members have themselves posted numbers which are wildly inconsistent. In fact, I have seen the same member post radically different numbers even the same thread which not only makes little sense but just further confuses what should not be a very complicated thing to suss out. It makes total sense - please see variable explanation above.
You can be assured that if I had any real world experience with any of these tunes, I would publish my own personal experience in great detail in the hopes that it might help someone. I would suggest more of the personal experience idea as it will help with some of your confusion. In fact, I often share the experience I do have, such as it is, toward that end. That is what community boards are for - to share information and help the community - usually by doing. Complaining about it - not so much.
To answer your question of why I am not collating this data myself, I'm not going to disseminate information that I can't verify and don't trust to begin with. This makes no sense. At all. The ONLY way to disseminate information - that is trust worthy to you - is to do it yourself. DO some testing. GO to a track. Make some runs, both before and after a tune - same day if possible. Then you will know. You will not need to depend on any other source. As your variables for you will differ from others experiences. Now you may not want to do that - spend the money and time in order to provide that information to the community - and that is fine. Just don't complain about it - because no one owes you anything.
To me, this all seems quite reasonable. If this somehow seems unreasonable to you, I'll respect your right to form your own opinion. But your disrespectful tone is uncalled for and certainly says more about you than the veracity of my opinions. I believe my opinions have helped to prove your opinions are flawed. Since opinions are subjective - we will likely never see eye to eye there. As to my tone - I can only state that whining and complaining when someone isn't producing anything of value themselves - is a sore spot for me.
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      02-12-2019, 11:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
Putting aside the somewhat rude tone of your initial reply to my post, as an example, the numbers published by RC not only lack detail for various maps and settings but apparently are far, far off from real world experiences of various members.
I'll open by saying that I find your whole attitude toward this irritating... granted, that's obvious but now the context of my response is clear. You need to lower your expectations or distill the data yourself.

Quote:
Some have called them out right lies, I will generously call them simply not accurate.
I'll follow your tact here: based on what data ? You argue the data isn't available and then dismiss what is... so, again, based on what?

Quote:
To complicate matters, various members have themselves posted numbers which are wildly inconsistent.
No way! The data posted by consumers of a plug'n'play tuning product isn't consistent... of course it isn't consistent: different cars; different dynos; different pump gas; different DA; different correction factors; different interpretations; egos; etc. Objective real-world data requires statistical significance and that takes time. Remember, most folks are playing with these tunes and are merely having fun with it--they're learning how to best normalize their data as they go.

Quote:
In fact, I have seen the same member post radically different numbers even the same thread which not only makes little sense but just further confuses what should not be a very complicated thing to suss out.
Then bitch at them (unless it's me in which case, sorry, I suck), not at the forum as a whole.

Quote:
You can be assured that if I had any real world experience
… precisely my point.

Quote:
… with any of these tunes, I would publish my own personal experience in great detail in the hopes that it might help someone.
As will I and as do many others but apparently not quickly enough or with sufficient collaborative consistency to satisfy you. Do you hear yourself? You're quite literally bitching at the people you're hoping will provide the data you're interested in.

Quote:
In fact, I often share the experience I do have, such as it is, toward that end.
Me, too! We're so alike.

Quote:
To answer your question of why I am not collating this data myself, I'm not going to disseminate information that I can't verify and don't trust to begin with.
Oh FFS!

Quote:
To me, this all seems quite reasonable.
No doubt.

Quote:
If this somehow seems unreasonable to you
… it's probably apparent by now but, yes, I think your expectations are unreasonable for the Magna Carta of an explanation (give that one some thought) I outlined above.
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