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      01-17-2021, 01:52 PM   #1
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Custom Dyno Tuned 2020 M8

Copied over from M8 forum (not much on tuning there) but same tuning process for locked M5 ECUs.

Summary:

Bone stock 2020 M8 base 1,500 miles
Stage 1 e30 tune + removal of speed limiters
+129 crank hp + 48 crank tq
No change to daily drivability
Tuner: LCE Performance in Germany
Dyno operator: EMD Auto Anaheim California

Gentlemen, I would like to share my experience of flash tuning my M8.

With the ECU's (both) being locked, we don't have a lot of flash tuning options. ECU either needs to come out to get unlocked, or you need to go to a very reliable shop with professional tuning tools. So in the meantime, a lot of people have been using piggy backs which are great but just not for me.

I use EMD Auto in Anaheim, California for all of the work on my bolt-on 991 Turbo S. EMD does phenomenal work and highly known in the VAG world (VW Audi Porsche). They dyno tuned my car together with Emre from ES Motor and with simple mod combo, I have a very reliable mid 9's 147+ 1/4 mile / 181+ 1/2 mile trap airstrip and track car.

The M8 posed more of a challenge due to the ECU's being locked. I have known EMD for over a decade as the owner was previously with GIAC, and has professional tuning tools.

Step 1 was to use EMD's Autotuner software hooked up directly to both ECU's in the engine bay to take a picture of both ECUs - to have the ability to flash back to stock.

Step 2 was to upload OBD Unlock so that the flash tunes could be uploaded via OBD port.

Step 3 was to send ECU pictures to LCE Performance in Germany. Why LCE? I wanted calibration from a long time automotive software engineers. LCE is an up-and-coming shop but have been in the automotive business for decades. They are a full-service shop in Germany that does some mind boggling builds including all mechanical, electrical and software. They have a beautiful M8 comp shop car as well a bunch of other incredible cars.

https://www.lce-performance.de/

Step4: few days after sending the stock ECU pictures to LCE, they sent two tunes back to EMD. Both tunes stage 1 as my M8 is otherwise bone stock. First tune is 91 octane and second tune is e30. I only plan to use the e30 tune as I am lucky enough to have a Chervron station with e85 two miles from my home.

Step 5 was to hit the dyno. I picked a great day - it was 86 degrees F in the middle of January and the dyno room was even hotter - but it was a blessing since I'd rather dyno in high temp, high DA conditions. EMD uses a mustang dyno and is calibrated to read both crank and wheel hp.

EMD strapped the car down and did a couple dyno pulls with the car 100% stock. Coincidentally, the car made exactly 600 crank hp on the dyno. Whether the car makes more or less it doesn't matter - it was the best baseline we could hope for. We were taking logs using bFlash and most interesting was that the car needed to produce 1.35 bar stock which is very high (highest LCE has ever seen stock). We think because it was so hot with IAT's starting each dyno pull over 50 celsius. Nothing we could do about this with BMW's weird air to (coolant) water setup.

Next step was load up the 91 tune and dyno again. I'm likely never using this tune but it was fun to see nevertheless. It made around 50 more crank hp on the base map. We could have changed some parameters to make more power but I didn't want to waste any time since I don't plan to use it. If I want, I can always go back to EMD and custom calibrate it later.

So then we used the BMW connected app to see exactly how much fuel was in the car, and added 4 gallons of e85 and computed e32 based on the assumption of 10% E in California 91 octane and 80% E in the E85 pump. EMD wanted to install an ethanol reader and I will do that later once we purchase another stock fuel line.

Then EMD loaded the e30 tune and did the dyno pull and the results were incredible. 729 crank hp. Now here's where it gets interesting. Logs were sent to LCE and they asked how much more power I wanted and I said none. In fact, the custom calibrations thereafter were to reduce boost, particularly in the lower rpms.

I ended up reducing boost under 4000 rpm from 1.35 bar stock to 1.15 bar tuned. Max boost between 4000 rpm and 7000 rpm was 1.5 bar.

This is not going to be a race car in fact all I do with it is use it for surfing and my wife drives it sometimes when I need her X5. Yes probably the fastest surf car on planet earth but needs to be reliable with no chance of transmission problems or faults or error codes or anything like that. Goal is 100% reliability and drivability with a little more punch. Well, goal achieved.

I haven't tested it 1/4 mile but driving home from EMD it behaves exactly like stock. When I go WOT it kicks down exactly like stock just way more power. I did a couple 0-60mph pulls stock yesterday which was 3.0 (2.8 with 1 foot rollout) and tuned 2.9 (2.7 with rollout) just brake boosting. I haven't ever used launch control and don't plan on it until I change tires since I have crappy PZeros. I was happy it didn't spin much on the launch just chirped a few times all the way to like 80mph. Over 80mph is where it gets interesting. I can tell the car is fighting for grip and its heft gets in the way under 80mph but over 80 I have full traction and the weight is less apparent and rockets away, much different than when stock. I'm guessing mid130's 1/4 mile which is my goal Stage 1. Nothing higher for now.

Anyway I'm extraordinarily pleased with the ease of the process and the results. LCE and EMD are amazing to work with - it couldn't have been simpler given the context of the locked ECU.

Cheers.
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      01-17-2021, 03:06 PM   #2
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Very interesting write up. Well explained process and I can’t wait to see the performance on your YouTube posts in the future. Does it have the potential to equal your Porsche? If you went for more power, reliable power? I suppose your tuners would recommend forged rods at that point?

Perhaps raise the rear board rack to make sure you have downward pressure on the boards? I’d hate to see them lifted off (or even broken?) when the 180 mph wind got under them! When you’re surfing down in Baja of course.
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      01-17-2021, 03:17 PM   #3
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Very interesting write up. Well explained process and I can’t wait to see the performance on your YouTube posts in the future. Does it have the potential to equal your Porsche? If you went for more power, reliable power? I suppose your tuners would recommend forged rods at that point?

Perhaps raise the rear board rack to make sure you have downward pressure on the boards? I’d hate to see them lifted off (or even broken?) when the 180 mph wind got under them! When you’re surfing down in Baja of course.
Haha no board racks on the M8 thankfully. My son and I have a few dozen boards all smaller than 6 foot. I can fit about 4 boards rear seats down. When I take 3 people I need my e92 M3....and 4 people need the X5.

And yes the M8 does great offroading in the sand/dirt. But i have a couple scratches below the doors sills as a consequence.

At 4,300 pounds, the M8 is just too heavy to compare against a bolt on 991 Turbo S. A tune revision in the 991 can get me low 9's at 150 1/4 mile trap on my r888r street / track tires but I'm good with the current power level. 991 is insanely fast but can't haul surfboards!
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      01-17-2021, 03:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Haha no board racks on the M8 thankfully. My son and I have a few dozen boards all smaller than 6 foot.

At 4,300 pounds, the M8 is just too heavy to compare against a bolt on 991 Turbo S. A tune revision in the 991 can get me low 9's at 150 1/4 mile trap on my r888r street / track tires but I'm good with the current power level. 991 is insanely fast but can't haul surfboards!

Ahh, I took your Longboarder moniker to heart. I pictured the M8 with the BMW racks attached. I’ve been out of surfing for 20 years, but kept riding long boards even after the 1967 revolution. Even in those days, if the racks weren’t good, boards would fly off doing 65. Made a mess on the freeway.

Yes, the weight makes that a tough comparison, plus from what I’ve read, the Porsche PDK and all wheel drive are superior as well.
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      01-17-2021, 04:58 PM   #5
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The M8 actually doesnt have the roof rails like my e92 M3 does. Both have the carbon roof but BMW did the rails support on the e92 M3 so I can use the BMW rack (takes 5 min to install) if I need to carry 4 people or longer boards and don't have access the X5.

So with the M8 I can only carry two people with a couple surfboards around 6'0" and under. I have fit up to a 6'10" inside the M3 and suppose it could also fit inside the M8 but it would take some front seat adjustments.
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      01-18-2021, 09:03 AM   #6
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are you the guy who had the blown e92 and used to slap everyone around?

your name sounds familiar. Nice car!
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      01-18-2021, 09:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
are you the guy who had the blown e92 and used to slap everyone around?

your name sounds familiar. Nice car!
Haha i did airstrip my old white e92 M3 - it was fun back when modded cars were much slower than today. Bottom pic is my current stock-ish e92. Love that car!
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      01-18-2021, 10:41 AM   #8
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haha yes it was you. i enjoyed those vidoes. love the m8.
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      01-18-2021, 11:59 AM   #9
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Nice post Adam--- any street data by chance (on my cell so I might have glossed over it).
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      01-18-2021, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Nice post Adam--- any street data by chance (on my cell so I might have glossed over it).
What's up my friend.

No nothing other than a couple brake boost launches to make sure it still hooked up from a dig as I hear that becomes a problem once tuned particularly with those of us blessed with PZeros haha. So far so good. I think the boost reduction under 4,000rpm is helping.

The real story is how much it picks up over 60 and I need to test but damn the weather and surf have been so good here hard to get a block of time to cross the border into Mexico to do full 1/4 mile and 60-130 tests.

E30 is amazing with this car. Probably because IATs are always high from the air to water system that uses the engine coolant to "cool" the intake charge. Seriously wtf BMW. There's a Chevron in Laguna Niguel (crown valley and niguel road) with e85 pump makes things so easy so us nearby!
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      01-18-2021, 01:16 PM   #11
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In for dragy 1/4 mile times!
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      01-19-2021, 11:48 AM   #12
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Great post and informative. I think you can take of most cars on the street now.
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      01-19-2021, 07:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Nice post Adam--- any street data by chance (on my cell so I might have glossed over it).
What's up my friend.

No nothing other than a couple brake boost launches to make sure it still hooked up from a dig as I hear that becomes a problem once tuned particularly with those of us blessed with PZeros haha. So far so good. I think the boost reduction under 4,000rpm is helping.

The real story is how much it picks up over 60 and I need to test but damn the weather and surf have been so good here hard to get a block of time to cross the border into Mexico to do full 1/4 mile and 60-130 tests.

E30 is amazing with this car. Probably because IATs are always high from the air to water system that uses the engine coolant to "cool" the intake charge. Seriously wtf BMW. There's a Chevron in Laguna Niguel (crown valley and niguel road) with e85 pump makes things so easy so us nearby!
Nice write up and congrats!

Since you say the dme was locked what build date is your car?

Also you are the first guy that i heard complaining about the cooling system in these cars as they are considered to have sufficient cooling.
You wrote that charge air cooling is cooled by the engine coolant which is not true they are two separate cooling systems.
Check out the attachments these are for the F90 M5 but should be the same for the M8
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      01-19-2021, 08:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holset View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Nice post Adam--- any street data by chance (on my cell so I might have glossed over it).
What's up my friend.

No nothing other than a couple brake boost launches to make sure it still hooked up from a dig as I hear that becomes a problem once tuned particularly with those of us blessed with PZeros haha. So far so good. I think the boost reduction under 4,000rpm is helping.

The real story is how much it picks up over 60 and I need to test but damn the weather and surf have been so good here hard to get a block of time to cross the border into Mexico to do full 1/4 mile and 60-130 tests.

E30 is amazing with this car. Probably because IATs are always high from the air to water system that uses the engine coolant to "cool" the intake charge. Seriously wtf BMW. There's a Chevron in Laguna Niguel (crown valley and niguel road) with e85 pump makes things so easy so us nearby!
Nice write up and congrats!

Since you say the dme was locked what build date is your car?

Also you are the first guy that i heard complaining about the cooling system in these cars as they are considered to have sufficient cooling.
You wrote that charge air cooling is cooled by the engine coolant which is not true they are two separate cooling systems.
Check out the attachments these are for the F90 M5 but should be the same for the M8
Thanks! It's a 10/19 build date.

Good info on the cooling system. Can you see whether the liquid in the system uses water separate from the coolant? Edit: nvm I see that it is a separate system. What is puzzling to me about this system is that whatever liquid is used to "cool" the intake charge, just keeps circulating within the very hot engine bay.

Anyway regardless the logged IATs were all around 50c on the start which is not good at all but perhaps because we picked a hot day and without good airflow, the liquid in the cooling system heats up. The dyno room certainly doesn't replicate the conditions on the street but perfectly replicated what it is like to start a half mile airstrip run or a 1/4 mile drag run where you are sitting at idle creeping forward as you wait your turn to race.

I used an air to water system on a previous car and it robbed a lot of power. As soon as the liquid measured 115F, the car would start to pull timing. By 150F it had dropped over 100hp on the dyno. I had to get a larger capacity system that routed the liquid out of the hot engine bay and into a new tank mounted in the trunk to cure the issues.
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      01-20-2021, 01:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holset View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Nice post Adam--- any street data by chance (on my cell so I might have glossed over it).
What's up my friend.

No nothing other than a couple brake boost launches to make sure it still hooked up from a dig as I hear that becomes a problem once tuned particularly with those of us blessed with PZeros haha. So far so good. I think the boost reduction under 4,000rpm is helping.

The real story is how much it picks up over 60 and I need to test but damn the weather and surf have been so good here hard to get a block of time to cross the border into Mexico to do full 1/4 mile and 60-130 tests.

E30 is amazing with this car. Probably because IATs are always high from the air to water system that uses the engine coolant to "cool" the intake charge. Seriously wtf BMW. There's a Chevron in Laguna Niguel (crown valley and niguel road) with e85 pump makes things so easy so us nearby!
Nice write up and congrats!

Since you say the dme was locked what build date is your car?

Also you are the first guy that i heard complaining about the cooling system in these cars as they are considered to have sufficient cooling.
You wrote that charge air cooling is cooled by the engine coolant which is not true they are two separate cooling systems.
Check out the attachments these are for the F90 M5 but should be the same for the M8
Thanks! It's a 10/19 build date.

Good info on the cooling system. Can you see whether the liquid in the system uses water separate from the coolant? Edit: nvm I see that it is a separate system. What is puzzling to me about this system is that whatever liquid is used to "cool" the intake charge, just keeps circulating within the very hot engine bay.

Anyway regardless the logged IATs were all around 50c on the start which is not good at all but perhaps because we picked a hot day and without good airflow, the liquid in the cooling system heats up. The dyno room certainly doesn't replicate the conditions on the street but perfectly replicated what it is like to start a half mile airstrip run or a 1/4 mile drag run where you are sitting at idle creeping forward as you wait your turn to race.

I used an air to water system on a previous car and it robbed a lot of power. As soon as the liquid measured 115F, the car would start to pull timing. By 150F it had dropped over 100hp on the dyno. I had to get a larger capacity system that routed the liquid out of the hot engine bay and into a new tank mounted in the trunk to cure the issues.
Okay i am not sure but i think it was around 6/20 when Bmw implented a new Dme lock that hasn't been cracked yet.

About your iat 50c/122f is not that high seems normal sitting at a dyno.
It pretty much impossible to have the charge air lower than ambient air maybe if you put ice in the charge coolant and sprayed the radiator with water/alcohol?:

You can read up on the whole tech document here https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8;d=1530151323
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      01-21-2021, 08:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holset View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holset View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Nice post Adam--- any street data by chance (on my cell so I might have glossed over it).
What's up my friend.

No nothing other than a couple brake boost launches to make sure it still hooked up from a dig as I hear that becomes a problem once tuned particularly with those of us blessed with PZeros haha. So far so good. I think the boost reduction under 4,000rpm is helping.

The real story is how much it picks up over 60 and I need to test but damn the weather and surf have been so good here hard to get a block of time to cross the border into Mexico to do full 1/4 mile and 60-130 tests.

E30 is amazing with this car. Probably because IATs are always high from the air to water system that uses the engine coolant to "cool" the intake charge. Seriously wtf BMW. There's a Chevron in Laguna Niguel (crown valley and niguel road) with e85 pump makes things so easy so us nearby!
Nice write up and congrats!

Since you say the dme was locked what build date is your car?

Also you are the first guy that i heard complaining about the cooling system in these cars as they are considered to have sufficient cooling.
You wrote that charge air cooling is cooled by the engine coolant which is not true they are two separate cooling systems.
Check out the attachments these are for the F90 M5 but should be the same for the M8
Thanks! It's a 10/19 build date.

Good info on the cooling system. Can you see whether the liquid in the system uses water separate from the coolant? Edit: nvm I see that it is a separate system. What is puzzling to me about this system is that whatever liquid is used to "cool" the intake charge, just keeps circulating within the very hot engine bay.

Anyway regardless the logged IATs were all around 50c on the start which is not good at all but perhaps because we picked a hot day and without good airflow, the liquid in the cooling system heats up. The dyno room certainly doesn't replicate the conditions on the street but perfectly replicated what it is like to start a half mile airstrip run or a 1/4 mile drag run where you are sitting at idle creeping forward as you wait your turn to race.

I used an air to water system on a previous car and it robbed a lot of power. As soon as the liquid measured 115F, the car would start to pull timing. By 150F it had dropped over 100hp on the dyno. I had to get a larger capacity system that routed the liquid out of the hot engine bay and into a new tank mounted in the trunk to cure the issues.
Okay i am not sure but i think it was around 6/20 when Bmw implented a new Dme lock that hasn't been cracked yet.

About your iat 50c/122f is not that high seems normal sitting at a dyno.
It pretty much impossible to have the charge air lower than ambient air maybe if you put ice in the charge coolant and sprayed the radiator with water/alcohol?:

You can read up on the whole tech document here https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8;d=1530151323
One thing that I did note about IAT's on the dyno - I was in the passenger seat for each dyno pull with bFlash on the laptop logging each pull watching the data.

The start IAT like I mentioned was around 50c to begin each run, however I would note that at the end of the pull the IATs would always be lower. For example if start IATs were 50, by 5,000 rpm WOT the would drop down to 47c and then maybe creep up to 48c by 7,000 rpm. Clearly airflow can't replicate a real WOT run on the street so I wonder what IATs would have been had I been on the street vs the dyno room.

Given that LCE Performance was noticing the very high start IATs, my guess is that in the real world and for their dyno testing perhaps in much cooler weather, they see much lower IATs and to their surprise my stock pull at 1.35 bar was the highest they'd seen because it was also the highest IATs they'd seen and my guess is that the stock ECU needed 1.35 bar to make 600 hp with high IATs.

Anyway perhaps the system is more efficient than I thought. The only real way to tell is to do a sustained WOT pull like a half mile in warm temps and compare to data from my other cars with different intercooling setups.
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      03-08-2021, 11:08 AM   #17
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First try 1/4 mile not sure I stayed in it until the end. Was on an abandoned road in really bad shape and the road was curving. Need to get to a proper road.

This is a 100% stock car on a full tank of gas just the LCE Performance tune. Stock everything else including filters and even stock PZeros.

110 1/8th mile means it is FLYING.

Next run I will try ms109 gas and will assume the 1/4 mile trap speed increases a lot.
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      03-08-2021, 08:48 PM   #18
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One thing that I did note about IAT's on the dyno - I was in the passenger seat for each dyno pull with bFlash on the laptop logging each pull watching the data.

The start IAT like I mentioned was around 50c to begin each run, however I would note that at the end of the pull the IATs would always be lower. For example if start IATs were 50, by 5,000 rpm WOT the would drop down to 47c and then maybe creep up to 48c by 7,000 rpm. Clearly airflow can't replicate a real WOT run on the street so I wonder what IATs would have been had I been on the street vs the dyno room.

Given that LCE Performance was noticing the very high start IATs, my guess is that in the real world and for their dyno testing perhaps in much cooler weather, they see much lower IATs and to their surprise my stock pull at 1.35 bar was the highest they'd seen because it was also the highest IATs they'd seen and my guess is that the stock ECU needed 1.35 bar to make 600 hp with high IATs.

Anyway perhaps the system is more efficient than I thought. The only real way to tell is to do a sustained WOT pull like a half mile in warm temps and compare to data from my other cars with different intercooling setups.
Interesting info. I had the same issue with my W213 E63 and that was high IATS especially when staging at the strip. I had WMI but the IATS would get so high in staging.

If this is a problem when I pick up my F90 I will run the CSF charge coolers, meth injection, and maybe even a FI Interchiller. I’m done dealing with high IATS
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      03-08-2021, 08:50 PM   #19
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First try 1/4 mile not sure I stayed in it until the end. Was on an abandoned road in really bad shape and the road was curving. Need to get to a proper road.

This is a 100% stock car on a full tank of gas just the LCE Performance tune. Stock everything else including filters and even stock PZeros.

110 1/8th mile means it is FLYING.

Next run I will try ms109 gas and will assume the 1/4 mile trap speed increases a lot.
I think you let off early. With that 1/8 trap I would expect a 135-136 1/4 mile trap. That is hauling ass for tune only.

Gives me hope to get some real tuning for my 2021
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      03-08-2021, 09:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by apsuard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
One thing that I did note about IAT's on the dyno - I was in the passenger seat for each dyno pull with bFlash on the laptop logging each pull watching the data.

The start IAT like I mentioned was around 50c to begin each run, however I would note that at the end of the pull the IATs would always be lower. For example if start IATs were 50, by 5,000 rpm WOT the would drop down to 47c and then maybe creep up to 48c by 7,000 rpm. Clearly airflow can't replicate a real WOT run on the street so I wonder what IATs would have been had I been on the street vs the dyno room.

Given that LCE Performance was noticing the very high start IATs, my guess is that in the real world and for their dyno testing perhaps in much cooler weather, they see much lower IATs and to their surprise my stock pull at 1.35 bar was the highest they'd seen because it was also the highest IATs they'd seen and my guess is that the stock ECU needed 1.35 bar to make 600 hp with high IATs.

Anyway perhaps the system is more efficient than I thought. The only real way to tell is to do a sustained WOT pull like a half mile in warm temps and compare to data from my other cars with different intercooling setups.
Interesting info. I had the same issue with my W213 E63 and that was high IATS especially when staging at the strip. I had WMI but the IATS would get so high in staging.

If this is a problem when I pick up my F90 I will run the CSF charge coolers, meth injection, and maybe even a FI Interchiller. I’m done dealing with high IATS
CSF stuff is really good.

Since these car run air to water intercooling systems, it would be fantastic to run the killer chiller system, however I don't see any spare room for the install.
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