[euro*]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

How long had the piggy been removed before taking it to the dealership ?

Full tank of gas

[lankymidget]

Originally Posted by euro*

Came to the dealer with the engine problem, they scanned the car, did their diagnostics and determined that the car was operating way outside of stock parameters and declined to fix the issue.

Interesting... I'm in and around the GTA, just got a piggyback installed by the dealer. Now there's an 'understanding' around this but I know there will be specific or extreme cases where the warranty will be denied because of this.
Question I have is... what was 'the engine problem'??
and... which vehicle was it?
(if its already posted specifically, happy to read through the post if I can get a link, please)

[Kriz2fer]

Originally Posted by euro*

Full tank of gas

Yea we're gonna need some more info. What other mods did you have? What was the engine problem? What exactly did they tell after diagnosis test? What piggyback did you use?

[euro*]

Originally Posted by lankymidget

Interesting... I'm in and around the GTA, just got a piggyback installed by the dealer. Now there's an 'understanding' around this but I know there will be specific or extreme cases where the warranty will be denied because of this.
Question I have is... what was 'the engine problem'??
and... which vehicle was it?
(if its already posted specifically, happy to read through the post if I can get a link, please)

I assume you got Dinan piggyback installed from Budds in Oakville?

Originally Posted by Kriz2fer

Yea we're gonna need some more info. What other mods did you have? What was the engine problem? What exactly did they tell after diagnosis test? What piggyback did you use?

Not sure if I want to share any more detailed information on public forums.

But it is not anything new to anybody here, if you come to the dealer with a major engine issue, for example "the engine is knocking". They will do their work and dig in and see what was going on exactly before the issue happened. Flash tune or piggyback, they will know. There are tons and tons of threads on this forum discussing this very subject.

There was also an interesting read on these forums from that time when BMW first introduced that automatic detect for flash tune on their system few years ago. There was even a BMW tech who joined the discussion and in detail described how BMW can easily tell you were tuned, doesn't matter flash or piggy. I will try to find that thread.

The bottom line is, that if you are planing to tune your car, doesn't matter flash tune or piggyback, expect to pay out of your pocket, if the engine blows.

[cyberonetwo]

Originally Posted by euro*

Not sure if I want to share any more detailed information on public forums.

But it is not anything new to anybody here, if you come to the dealer with a major engine issue, for example "the engine is knocking". They will do their work and dig in and see what was going on exactly before the issue happened. Flash tune or piggyback, they will know. There are tons and tons of threads on this forum discussing this very subject.

There was also an interesting read on these forums from that time when BMW first introduced that automatic detect for flash tune on their system few years ago. There was even a BMW tech who joined the discussion and in detail described how BMW can easily tell you were tuned, doesn't matter flash or piggy. I will try to find that thread.

The bottom line is, that if you are planing to tune your car, doesn't matter flash tune or piggyback, expect to pay out of your pocket, if the engine blows.

Do you think the piggyback was the cause of your engine issue or was it just something BMW was able to point to without digging deeper? Did you have any other mods?

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by cyberonetwo

Do you think the piggyback was the cause of your engine issue or was it just something BMW was able to point to without digging deeper? Did you have any other mods?

Good point. A plain Stage 1 piggy or a higher level piggy with E mixed fuel ?

[Slugsy01]

Originally Posted by Pimpsy

Promises, promises...

Here we are!

[Kriz2fer]

Originally Posted by Slugsy01

Here we are!

Is old box the race chip?

[pbonsalb]

They look about equal overall to me. Maybe the JB4 additional inputs only come to life at higher boost levels and octane or maybe you ran the JB4 with only 2 wire hookup and all the 2 wire piggybacks are in the same ballpark.

[Slugsy01]

Originally Posted by Kriz2fer

Is old box the race chip?

Yes

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by Slugsy01

Here we are!

Which brand dynamometer ?

RC looks killer.

[pbonsalb]

Neither look “killer” to me. Both look like typical stage 1 improvements over stock, though, and that is certainly enough to notice. RC adds a little more boost and/or timing in the mid range compared to JB4 and JB4 adds a little more boost and/or timing in the top end compared to RC. RC had the benefit of 55F temp while JB4 had to work in 66F temp. The numbers may be corrected to a standard but that is the output that has corrected — if timing is pulled due to heat the dyno does not know and the software does correct for that.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Neither look “killer” to me. Both look like typical stage 1 improvements over stock, though, and that is certainly enough to notice. RC adds a little more boost and/or timing in the mid range compared to JB4 and JB4 adds a little more boost and/or timing in the top end compared to RC. RC had the benefit of 55F temp while JB4 had to work in 66F temp. The numbers may be corrected to a standard but that is the output that has corrected — if timing is pulled due to heat the dyno does not know and the software does correct for that.

How would RC change timing?

[pbonsalb]

I don’t know what is intercepted and altered and sent back. But the midrange bump in RC’s favor and the top end bump in JB4’s favor have to be explained by something and the two things that can make a bump like these are increases to boost and timing targets.

Piggybacks and tunes make power by using up the safety margins the factory adds — leaning the AFR, adding boost, increasing timing. Sometimes there are other tricks like altering cam timing to take advantage of less exhaust back pressure from eliminating cats, but there is no magic. The aftermarket tuners don’t know any secrets that BMW does not know about tuning.

A piggyback certainly can change timing, though as I noted by using “and/or” in my original post, I don’t know whether the RC or JB4 do. I had a Vishnu Procede piggyback on my naturally aspirated E90 M3 that controlled a water meth injection system. It increased timing targets when the meth was flowing.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I don’t know what is intercepted and altered and sent back. But the midrange bump in RC’s favor and the top end bump in JB4’s favor have to be explained by something and the two things that can make a bump like these are increases to boost and timing targets.

Piggybacks and tunes make power by using up the safety margins the factory adds — leaning the AFR, adding boost, increasing timing. Sometimes there are other tricks like altering cam timing to take advantage of less exhaust back pressure from eliminating cats, but there is no magic. The aftermarket tuners don’t know any secrets that BMW does not know about tuning.

A piggyback certainly can change timing, though as I noted by using “and/or” in my original post, I don’t know whether the RC or JB4 do. I had a Vishnu Procede piggyback on my naturally aspirated E90 M3 that controlled a water meth injection system. It increased timing targets when the meth was flowing.

[pbonsalb]

Maybe you know more and can help us understand why one piggyback has a stronger midrange and the other has a stronger top end? I simply installed my JB4 using all inputs, set it to Map 2, added meth and enabled for all maps and left it alone. Have not explored further, but will be since I bought a BM3 and will need to either do a BEF or put the JB4 on Map 0 with meth enabled or play around with the custom user map.

[Oz M5]

Hi all

Recent arrival into the M5 community after picking up a 2019 M5 Comp. Beautiful machine!

Quick question regarding piggybacking etc. When installed do you lose any functionality of the engine power modes (Efficient/Sport/Sport Plus)? Does the tune work across all options....?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Oz M5

Hi all

Recent arrival into the M5 community after picking up a 2019 M5 Comp. Beautiful machine!

Quick question regarding piggybacking etc. When installed do you lose any functionality of the engine power modes (Efficient/Sport/Sport Plus)? Does the tune work across all options....?

You wont lose any functionality , everything will work exactly the same and your tune will work across all options

[Oz M5]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You wont lose any functionality , everything will work exactly the same and your tune will work across all options

Thanks Mike.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Oz M5

Thanks Mike.

My pleasure

[Kponti]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Maybe you know more and can help us understand why one piggyback has a stronger midrange and the other has a stronger top end? I simply installed my JB4 using all inputs, set it to Map 2, added meth and enabled for all maps and left it alone. Have not explored further, but will be since I bought a BM3 and will need to either do a BEF or put the JB4 on Map 0 with meth enabled or play around with the custom user map.

Boost, the RC is tuned with a little more boost in he midrange is all that is different. The RC only intercepts and modifies boost signals, that's why it's so easy to install.
JB can do a lot more, but it's a can do depending on what in all is installed.
Install more sensor connections, you can control more stuff and modify more parameters. Install the same boost signals only like the RC does, you get about the same level of control as the RC

[evanaswan]

Ok, my official butt dyno has the results. On my 4th M and all had Jb4 and early ones BootMod as well. Just got a 2024 M8 and tried the RaceChip out of curiosity and simplicity. It's well made. Last night I decided to try the JB4 with EWG conected. Well Map 1 pulled a littler harder than the RC. More trq possibly, but it's staying in. It's better on map1 with EWG in. Now I was told EWG's really don't kick in until Map2. Hands down I like the feel of the JB4 better.

For note. you can turn off the EWG on bit5 in the JB4 app. While in Map2 and turning this off and on, it's a very feelable difference.

Food for though everyone.