[gpdriver17]

I bought a 2018 M5 a few weeks ago. I live in Las Vegas, flew into Chicago to pick it up and have it shipped back here because it was exactly the options I wanted and a good price. When I saw the car after signing papers, they popped the trunk and said, "Oh the original exhaust is back here, by the way." The catalytic converters are what they were talking about. I want them put back on the car, I have to to pass smog check and register the car in NV. The car also has a tune that will cause the smog check to fail. I did some research, driving the car as they sold it in IL is a class 3 felony! Same as drunk driving. BMW wants 4,500 dollars to change the exhaust back and reprogram the ECU. I've checked with 5 other shops, all told me to kick rocks and said they didn't wan to deal with changing the downpipes. The dealership just keeps saying, "We'll pay for it and make it right. But find someone that will do it for a reasonable price, $800-$1200.

At this point, I'm fine with shipping the car back to them. It's another headache I don't want to deal with. They said no to that.

Do you guys thing getting a lawyer involved would help motivate them to either take the car back or pay BMW to fix it? Anyone know of shops in Las Vegas that would do this work for a reasonable price? Any other options I'm not thinking of?

Also the day after I bought it, it completely shut down for no reason when driving. Dash and everything went black. I stopped on the side of the road and it restarted/ran fine. A few minutes later the whole dash went black and came back. I called the dealership that sold it to me and they said, "Oh I'm sure it's just bad gas. Put some 93 in it." Is this a common issue? Obviously what they said was BS.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

I bought a 2018 M5 a few weeks ago. I live in Las Vegas, flew into Chicago to pick it up and have it shipped back here because it was exactly the options I wanted and a good price. When I saw the car after signing papers, they popped the trunk and said, "Oh the original exhaust is back here, by the way." The catalytic converters are what they were talking about. I want them put back on the car, I have to to pass smog check and register the car in NV. The car also has a tune that will cause the smog check to fail. I did some research, driving the car as they sold it in IL is a class 3 felony! Same as drunk driving. BMW wants 4,500 dollars to change the exhaust back and reprogram the ECU. I've checked with 5 other shops, all told me to kick rocks and said they didn't wan to deal with changing the downpipes. The dealership just keeps saying, "We'll pay for it and make it right. But find someone that will do it for a reasonable price, $800-$1200.

At this point, I'm fine with shipping the car back to them. It's another headache I don't want to deal with. They said no to that.

Do you guys thing getting a lawyer involved would help motivate them to either take the car back or pay BMW to fix it? Anyone know of shops in Las Vegas that would do this work for a reasonable price? Any other options I'm not thinking of?

Also the day after I bought it, it completely shut down for no reason when driving. Dash and everything went black. I stopped on the side of the road and it restarted/ran fine. A few minutes later the whole dash went black and came back. I called the dealership [...]

First off, I feel absolutely terrible for you. Sorry that you are in this situation.

When you say that you offered to ship the car back to them, and they said no, did you mean for repair? Or to rescind your deal and get your money back?

Again I feel terrible for you, but your circumstance begs the question — in what ways did you vet this car before purchasing? Am I to understand that you bought this car sight unseen, and then didn’t even look it over before signing? Were you under the assumption the car had an aftermarket exhaust when negotiating and structuring your deal? Did you prior to closing the deal that the car was tuned?

[dcohen13]

I want to start off by saying, I am extremely sorry for your situation.

Did you purchase this M5 from a BMW Dealer? If so, which one? Did you buy it as CPO, or no warranty? If it was purchased as used and no warranty, then there will be some technicalities to get it fixed by them...

What does your paperwork say?

[pbonsalb]

Yes, you were sold a car that is illegal to sell as a registered street legal vehicle and the seller knew it. You should have some recourse based on that, especially if it is a shop that sold it. If you still want the car, the seller should agree to have the stock exhaust put back on and ensure the tune is stock or reflash it. If you cannot achieve what you want on your own, and it appears you have not been able to achieve what you want, hiring a lawyer would be a good idea.

I personally would not want the car based on what you have written, but maybe there is more to the story with respect to the disclosures and the mods.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

First off, I feel absolutely terrible for you. Sorry that you are in this situation.

When you say that you offered to ship the car back to them, and they said no, did you mean for repair? Or to rescind your deal and get your money back?

Again I feel terrible for you, but your circumstance begs the question — in what ways did you vet this car before purchasing? Am I to understand that you bought this car sight unseen, and then didn’t even look it over before signing? Were you under the assumption the car had an aftermarket exhaust when negotiating and structuring your deal? Did you prior to closing the deal that the car was tuned?

It was a long day to go and pick this car up, it looked super clean inside and out. When I saw the cats in the trunk after buying it, I just though, "It'll cost $600-800 to reinstall them. I'm too tired to argue now, worst case I'll pay for it." It's my fault, for not inspecting the car enough. But when I mentioned this all to them, the sales manager said, "Oh we just figured whoever bought that car would want the modifications it had." Even though it's a felony to drive it in that state.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, you were sold a car that is illegal to sell as a registered street legal vehicle and the seller knew it. You should have some recourse based on that, especially if it is a shop that sold it. If you still want the car, the seller should agree to have the stock exhaust put back on and ensure the tune is stock or reflash it. If you cannot achieve what you want on your own, and it appears you have not been able to achieve what you want, hiring a lawyer would be a good idea.

I personally would not want the car based on what you have written, but maybe there is more to the story with respect to the disclosures and the mods.

Yeah, honestly at this point. I'd like to ship the car back to them and just be done with it. Option B is keep it and have them fix it. I'm going to call the service department Monday and have them send me the records for their inspection, hopefully they will, and I'm sure it'll show that the car didn't have cats installed. I need some proof if this goes to court. Also have their texts admitting to it.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by dcohen13

I want to start off by saying, I am extremely sorry for your situation.

Did you purchase this M5 from a BMW Dealer? If so, which one? Did you buy it as CPO, or no warranty? If it was purchased as used and no warranty, then there will be some technicalities to get it fixed by them...

What does your paperwork say?

It was a Lexus dealer, no CPO. It was as is, no warranty. But I don't think they can legally sell a car that cannot be registered. They said they wont give me the title until I send them the registration. But I can't get the registration because of all these issues. We're at a deadlock.

[dcohen13]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

It was a Lexus dealer, no CPO. It was as is, no warranty. But I don't think they can legally sell a car that cannot be registered. They said they wont give me the title until I send them the registration. But I can't get the registration because of all these issues. We're at a deadlock.

That is super tricky then, BUT from a quick Google search, this came up...

[pbonsalb]

You have tons of leverage. Just call, speak to the manager, and tell them the next call will be to the EPA if they do not deal with this in a reasonable manner that meets your satisfaction. Returning the car to stock or refunding your money and retrieving the car and reimbursing your travel costs. The EPA fines will cost 10 times whatever either of those 2 options cost. You are in the driver’s seat on this one.

But you should know that and don’t seem to have gotten any results, so you should probably hire a lawyer to help you. This would be easy and fun work so finding one won’t be a problem. I bet you could even get the dealer to reimburse your legal fees for the small amount of time this should take.

[CFoote]

Remind me, the cat is on the downpipe right? Or is there one on the downpipe and the exhuast itself?

The labor charge should not be $4500, dealer is fleecing you. You need to find a competent third party shop that will do this for you. If it's the car you want, it isn't a huge deal to put it back to stock and just use the dealer for a factory flash (1 hour of labor or 1.5 hours of labor, I forgot book rate on i-level update).

Chris

[pbonsalb]

One cat on each of the upper downpipes and one cat on each of the lower downpipes. None of the 4 cats are under the car. 2 of those 4 are in the Vee of the V8 and 2 are behind the motor just before the right angle turns to go under the car. It takes a few hours minimum to change the downpipes. I can flash in a stick tune in 10 minutes including putting the car on a power supply.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

I would start with looking at a consumer protection lawyer in Illinois since that’s where the transaction occurred, and is extremely pro consumer.

In Illinois, there exists the The Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. It provides consumers a remedy for “marketplace” wrongs such as these. Filing an action under the Act has a significantly lower bar than what you would need to prove for fraud (though you may have a fraud claim regardless). The Act even has specific provisions for fraud, without the elevated requirements of a fraud claim. A claimant need not be a resident of Illinois to avail themselves of these protections.

The Act prohibits the use of any “…deception, fraud, false pretenses or promises, concealment, suppression, or omission of any fact that is material to a business dealing or transaction.”

Almost all states have a comparable set of laws, but one of the factors that protects the consumer in Illinois more is that they may bring a claim under the Act even if they were not in fact misled, deceived, or even damaged by the wrongful conduct (though I am not suggesting this is the case). This is a key advantage to the consumer. With a common law fraud claim, there is significantly more to prove and this would be a lengthier process.

Just like a fraud claim, the Act provides for civil or criminal penalties, damages, reasonable attorney's fees, and costs in some situations. The only thing it doesn’t provide for is punitive damages.

While there are specific provisions of the Act that apply to used motor vehicle sales that may apply to your circumstance, you may not even have to go that far in Illinois.

Having a good attorney bring this, and the details of your situation, to the attention of the dealership’s legal department might be all you need to get this rectified. If that doesn’t get the result you’re looking for, you can always escalate from there.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Again why would you touch a car that's been tuned ?
It's Lottery.

[AHall]

It will be interesting how this turns out. It is definitely a unfortunate predicament. Three sides to every story, but based on what we know the OP did not know the car had been modified to the extent it is now illegal to drive on public roads. Again based on what we have read here. The OP should definitely get a second estimate to return the car to stock. If the OP decides to seek the assistance of a lawyer, the cost of those services may be more than the repair.

[Aronis]

Not going to pile on your misfortune. Hope it gets worked out. Sorry to hear such a story, but not surprised. Sounds like the dealer took it on trade to make a sale on some newer more expensive car they wanted to move and did not look at the car they were taking in trade very closely.

Mike

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by AHall

If the OP decides to seek the assistance of a lawyer, the cost of those services may be more than the repair.

In most cases, I would also suggest that the cost of a lawyer and potential litigation be considered, but this is an easy case assuming the facts are as represented. The dealer will settle for an amount that makes the OP whole, including legal fees, because the dealer has significant financial exposure and no defenses to the core issue of knowingly selling a car with tampered emissions controls. A dispute like this should never get to the point where it needs to become a court case. This one is really that bad for the dealer.

[Aronis]

Lucky to get out of Chicago alive, never mind get a good car deal.

Mike

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by AHall

It will be interesting how this turns out. It is definitely a unfortunate predicament. Three sides to every story, but based on what we know the OP did not know the car had been modified to the extent it is now illegal to drive on public roads. Again based on what we have read here. The OP should definitely get a second estimate to return the car to stock. If the OP decides to seek the assistance of a lawyer, the cost of those services may be more than the repair.

I've gone to several local shops to try and get other estimates to return the car to stock. All of them said the cats had to go up behind the engine, it looked like a PITA, and they didn't want to touch it. The dealership was the only place willing to take on the job.

[gpdriver17]

Thanks for all the input guys! Some of you are right, I should have enough leverage here to get through this without a lawyer. But work has been crazy lately and this is on the back burner for me/not that important.

Tomorrow I'll call service at that dealership first and see if they'll send me the records from their inspection. Then I'll call the sales manager and give them these 4 options.

1, Take the car back.
2, Pay BMW to install the cats and reflash the ECU.
3, Find a 3rd party shop that's reasonable and have BMW flash the ECU.
4, Talk to my lawyer.

[pbonsalb]

It is less than 8 hours labor to swap down pipes and less than an hour to swap tunes. Add half to that much again if using a dealer. The advantage of the dealer is that they might reprogram the whole car. I stay as far away from the dealer as I can, unless I have a car under warranty that needs a repair or I want their free servicing.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Thanks for all the input guys! Some of you are right, I should have enough leverage here to get through this without a lawyer. But work has been crazy lately and this is on the back burner for me/not that important.

Tomorrow I'll call service at that dealership first and see if they'll send me the records from their inspection. Then I'll call the sales manager and give them these 4 options.

1, Take the car back.
2, Pay BMW to install the cats and reflash the ECU.
3, Find a 3rd party shop that's reasonable and have BMW flash the ECU.
4, Talk to my lawyer.

I think that if an IL lawyer drafted a demand letter in conformity with the Act, stating very specifically what you want as the outcome, and as others have said, the facts are as represented in your post, you should be able to resolve the matter. I don’t know if your lawyer that you mention is in NV, but if so, you should bring this to an IL lawyer.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

I think that if an IL lawyer drafted a demand letter in conformity with the Act, stating very specifically what you want as the outcome, and as others have said, the facts are as represented in your post, you should be able to resolve the matter. I don’t know if your lawyer that you mention is in NV, but if so, you should bring this to an IL lawyer.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks, I contacted one in IL. Hopefully I'll have time to talk to them Monday.