01-09-2024, 11:53 PM | #89 |
Brigadier General
4094
Rep 3,675
Posts
Drives: 2022 M5C
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Earth
|
I don’t have the supporting mods that Kponti does, but I have run the GTS Black for ~45k miles of service over two F90s on Map 7 since the break in was completed solely on 93 octane with no issues whatsoever.
__________________
Not a BMW guy...but certainly an M5 guy.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2024, 11:25 AM | #90 | |
Joint Chiefs of Staff
24199
Rep 190,807
Posts |
Quote:
When you say you are not experiencing any issues, I'm assuming this is based on the car's driving and you are not looking at any logs for this confirmation. it's important to consider that even if the car seems to run fine, this is because the DME is adjusting the ignition timing to protect the engine from an overly aggressive map. This protective measure leads to reduced power output compared to a well-balanced map that adds a moderate amount of boost without causing the DME to reduce ignition timing. More importantly, constantly relying on the DME to retard ignition as a safety measure can transition from seemingly perfect driving conditions to serious engine damage in a split second. It's not recommended to depend on this mechanism for tuning your car, as it isn't a safe long term solution.
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2024, 05:14 PM | #91 | |
Second Lieutenant
114
Rep 282
Posts |
Quote:
That being said, I have been tuning German, domestic, and Japanese-boosted (turbo and superchargers) cars since the late 90s. The above statement is not exactly accurate in the context it is used. Piggybacks will not be able to increase boost as much as an actual tune does or can, so in that regard, most real tunes tend to run more boost than piggybacks. As a result of that, timing is reduced in real tunes to keep it from detonating at that higher boost level. Something that is not required of a good quality Piggyback map for a given octane level. The engine and fuel (not tune type) determine what amount of boost and timing the engine can safely tolerate. So the moderate levels of boost are usually found more in Piggybacks than in real tunes. Real tunes allow you to raise either boost or timing or both beyond moderate levels more so than a piggyback can or will. That's why they make so much less power Real tunes also rely on factory knock sensors to retard timing if detonation is detected (so do factory stock tunes). The key is not to raise either boost or timing too much to make it knock on a piggyback or a real tune |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-12-2024, 10:59 AM | #92 | |
Joint Chiefs of Staff
24199
Rep 190,807
Posts |
Quote:
Our conversation is specifically about two piggyback systems: Race Chip and JB4. I'm not sure why there's a shift to comparing flash tunes with piggybacks, as that's not the topic at hand nor was it the subject of my post. Here is a recap of my post "When running a piggyback that cannot datalog such as the race chip, you should not run aggressive maps since you can't see if the ignition timing is dropping because the boost is too high for your octane. The car might run fine but that does not mean your map is good for your car, relying on the DME failsafe is not a safe or effective method of tuning" Which part of my post don't you agree with?
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2024, 06:46 PM | #93 | |
Second Lieutenant
437
Rep 239
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-14-2024, 11:17 AM | #94 | |
Joint Chiefs of Staff
24199
Rep 190,807
Posts |
Quote:
Map 0: Stock operation, JB4 disabled Map 1: Default performance map, 3psi peak request over stock. Compatible with 91+ octane. Suggested for most applications. Map 2: 4psi peak over stock, a more aggressive version of map1 suitable for 93+ octane in most applications. Map 3: 6psi peak over stock, a much more aggressive map suggested for E20 E85 mixtures, quality 93+ octane, octane booster, or unleaded race gas mixtures. Note in many cases like with the competition package map2 may be more aggressive than map3. Map 4: 26psi absolute boost profile Map 5: 27psi absolute boost profile Map 6: User adjustable map. RPM1500 values of less than 6psi make map6 additive target based, values over 7psi make map6 absolute target based. Map 7: Water/meth (WMI) progressive safety map, boost target determined by WMI additive Map 8: Low boost VALET & safety map Map 6 is the custom map, you need to input your own boost to work properly. Per the guide above, lots of options for 93. If you are using map 3 or map 5 and you are not mixing with E85, I recommend you datalog to ensure that the 93 octane from that gas station is high quality.
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2024, 09:27 AM | #95 |
Captain
441
Rep 749
Posts |
As far as I know Racechip only test their boost profiles on pump fuel, so logic suggests level 7 is for 93/94 Octane and work backward from there. With JB4 they publish guidance on which map to use with which fuel so you just have to be literate to succeed.
All in all the boost increments with the piggy backs is low single digit increases. The same sort of difference in boost pressure from driving at sea level Vs driving in the Rockies. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2024, 09:35 AM | #96 | |
Second Lieutenant
437
Rep 239
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2024, 10:43 AM | #97 | |
Joint Chiefs of Staff
24199
Rep 190,807
Posts |
Quote:
They also don't officially recommend any maps. this plus the fact that you cannot datalog is a dangerous combination and you can't blame them for any damages because they never officially said which maps are for which octane. But since the BMW DME is so good, a lot of tuners can get away with a lot of things. Its better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. If you are using a tune that does not datalog and does not disclose how much boost each map is adding, stay with the conservative maps. map 5 for 91, map 6 for 93, map 7 for E85
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2024, 02:44 PM | #98 |
Captain
441
Rep 749
Posts |
I don't know if it's possible in BMW land but on my last Audi I had a piggy with no logging, so I used my phone in combo with a OBD2 Bluetooth dongle to log boost and ign. The frequency was poor but it told me peak boost, ignition advance and a few other things to judge if the box was a grenade waiting to go off or not.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-15-2024, 09:53 PM | #99 | |
Second Lieutenant
114
Rep 282
Posts |
Quote:
Haven't tried any of the other maps to see We can agree to disagree on my tuning understanding lol. I have tuned too many cars to count some personally some via other tuners. Loads of datalogs I've poured over ..... |
|
Appreciate
1
mike@x-ph.com24199.00 |
01-16-2024, 08:28 AM | #100 | |
Private First Class
30
Rep 109
Posts |
Quote:
I've got no other mods but I'm debating secondary downpipes and a new cold air intake (either standard or front mount). |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2024, 10:14 AM | #101 | |
Joint Chiefs of Staff
24199
Rep 190,807
Posts |
Quote:
Let me know once you make a decision on the downpipes and intake and i can help
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-16-2024, 03:27 PM | #102 | |
Brigadier General
4094
Rep 3,675
Posts
Drives: 2022 M5C
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Earth
|
Quote:
I’m not an engineer, I would assume you’d be just fine running Map 5 on 93. EDIT — Apologies, I didn’t realize this was the thread that I had posted this info on (earlier in the thread).
__________________
Not a BMW guy...but certainly an M5 guy.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|