[Crichton]

Purchased a 2019 M5 comp which came with summer pirelli’s. Given these tires are not recommended under 45 degrees, what would you do for tires? Full winter set on separate rims? If so, when would you change over from summer to winter and vice versa? All season tires (not a huge fan of sacrificing summer performance for mediocre winter performance….)? I do live in an area that has snow on the ground ~4 weeks of the wonter. Seattle temp chart attached.

Seems like temperatures are borderline but appear to suggest I should get winter tires.

Appreciate advice.

Thanks!

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Crichton

Purchased a 2019 M5 comp which came with summer pirelli’s. Given these tires are not recommended under 45 degrees, what would you do for tires? Full winter set on separate rims? If so, when would you change over from summer to winter and vice versa? All season tires (not a huge fan of sacrificing summer performance for mediocre winter performance….)? I do live in an area that has snow on the ground ~4 weeks of the wonter. Seattle temp chart attached.

Seems like temperatures are borderline but appear to suggest I should get winter tires.

Appreciate advice.

Thanks!

Summers are going to decrease in safety when ambient temperatures drop below the mid 40s mark. Significantly lower, and they’ll hockey puck very easily.

Dedicated OE winters are always best for maintaining performance. The trade off there is they will get chewed up much more easily when it’s warmer during the colder months.

The middle ground that has been been visited and revisited in the last few weeks here are A/S. They really do suck a lot of performance out of the car. Others in your region and typical climate have gone this route instead of full on winters. From the perspective of driving dynamics, some are happy, but most are not.

If cost is not an object, and you wanted the most performance year round, dedicated seasonal sets are the way to go. It does mean that a climate like your’s will chew up the winters on warmer days much faster than someone in the Northeast with a harsher climate running dedicated winters. This is personally the route I’d go in your climate (and I do in mine) and you just have a larger tire budget. You still do have six months per year with temps in the 30s, so it shouldn’t be too bad. This is the safest route, even if you chew a little more tire.

Using summers in your winters months is extremely unsafe at those average low temperatures. As I mentioned above, they’ll hockey puck in the 30s for sure. So if you don’t want to go with dedicated winters for whatever reason, I’d go with A/S (at the very least) from a safety perspective.

As as aside, unlike most here, I do have dedicated seasonal tires in OE sizes, but only one set of 706M wheels. This means I dismount and remount for each season’s changeover. With the semiannual labor for that, and, the off season tire storage, this cost me $1800 in total for a 36 month lease (not including the cost of the tires themselves). Since I lease, this is cheaper than two dedicated complete wheel and tire sets since you’re looking at about an additional $4500 minimum for a brand new OE dedicated winter set.

I use star marked OE PS4Ss in the summer and Pirelli SottoZero III UHP winters and they’re fantastic. Many are also happy with the Alpins. The SottoZero III are not star marked (i.e., non-OE) and they are one speed rating and one load rating below the PS4S, but, are more than sufficient for winter use, and I’ve had no perceptible drivetrain issues as a result. They wear as expected.

[pbonsalb]

For Seattle, all seasons will be fine and handle better than snows. I bought wider, lighter wheels for my summer tires and put the all seasons on the heavy stock wheels, and that is in NH where there is more snow than Seattle.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

For Seattle, all seasons will be fine and handle better than snows. I bought wider, lighter wheels for my summer tires and put the all seasons on the heavy stock wheels, and that is in NH where there is more snow than Seattle.

I think “handle better than snows” is an incorrect statement. A/S, even in the (relatively) warmer (cold) weather, are not going to handle better than dedicated winters when average low ambient temperatures are in the 30s. Did you see the average temps OP posted?

[pbonsalb]

All seasons will handle better than snows because snows are soft and squishy.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

All seasons will handle better than snows because snows are soft and squishy.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This has not been my experience when comparing A/S to dedicated winters in climates the OP describes.

[pbonsalb]

Yes, everyone is entitled an opinion. In addition to an opinion, though, I have actual experience on an F90 M5, having all seasons, snows and summers on wheels. You live in a climate more severe than the OP, and I live in a climate more severe than you.

Snow tires handle worse on dry pavement in winter than all seasons due to the tread design, depth and rubber compound. But in serious snow, snow tires are better for traction, and that is why many people accept the handling compromise to use them.

For a basic education, watch this video. Note that all tires are on snow, which is a pretty good indication that the climate is as cold or colder than that of the OP:

[pmsteinm]

The ideal solution is in areas with climates that don't fully commit to winter weather is to have 2 M5's. One with summers and one with all-seasons or winters.

I'm probably going to put the A/S on this weekend. I keep checking the weather to try and stretch another week but this place is so unpredictable. Next week looks like it will be more cold than not. And a 52-degree rainy day will be scary with the Pzeros.

[pbonsalb]

The PZero have a bad reputation. My P4S are fine in the rain and 50 degree temps but temps have already dropped to 32 overnight so I will swap to the all seasons when I have time in the next month.

[Crichton]

So would it be better, in my climate, to purchase a set of all seasons for the cold months rather than full winter tires?

I am struggling to see an obvious cutover date for Summer/winter tires here in Seattle. All seasons might be better for the late fall to early spring part of the year.

Winters Vs all seasons for half the year? Thoughts?

[pmsteinm]

Seems like Seattle doesn't have a good time to switch either. For me it is 80 today through Monday, then low of 40 and raining Tuesday and 30 on Wednesday. So I'm procrastinating until Monday afternoon to put on the all seasons. The car won't be as good with them as summer but that is unavoidable. Winters might be better on cold days except we still have 70 degree sunny days in winter which will wear them out so fast. So "ultra high performance" all seasons is the best of bad options.

All seasons aren't awful. They just have less grip so launching, braking and turning will require you to back off a bit. But not anywhere near as much as a summer only tire on a 35 degree wet day...

You need an F1 pit crew and 5 different tire compounds available so you can have the optimum tire each trip

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, everyone is entitled an opinion. In addition to an opinion, though, I have actual experience on an F90 M5, having all seasons, snows and summers on wheels. You live in a climate more severe than the OP, and I live in a climate more severe than you.

Snow tires handle worse on dry pavement in winter than all seasons due to the tread design, depth and rubber compound. But in serious snow, snow tires are better for traction, and that is why many people accept the handling compromise to use them.

For a basic education, watch this video. Note that all tires are on snow, which is a pretty good indication that the climate is as cold or colder than that of the OP:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=421HkK4Nqss

I’m familiar with the video, but thanks for sharing nonetheless.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by pmsteinm

Seems like Seattle doesn't have a good time to switch either. For me it is 80 today through Monday, then low of 40 and raining Tuesday and 30 on Wednesday. So I'm procrastinating until Monday afternoon to put on the all seasons. The car won't be as good with them as summer but that is unavoidable. Winters might be better on cold days except we still have 70 degree sunny days in winter which will wear them out so fast. So "ultra high performance" all seasons is the best of bad options.

All seasons aren't awful. They just have less grip so launching, braking and turning will require you to back off a bit. But not anywhere near as much as a summer only tire on a 35 degree wet day...

You need an F1 pit crew and 5 different tire compounds available so you can have the optimum tire each trip

“All seasons aren't awful. They just have less grip so launching, braking and turning will require you to back off a bit.”

This is a point I was trying to make above. They will suck some of the fun out of the car compared to the dedicated winters.

As an aside, we hit 88 yesterday and dropped to 48 today at one point. Finding exact cut off dates are hard, especially in my erratic climate, though I generally shoot for between Thanksgiving and Christmas. At some point you’re going to have to chew some winter tire when it’s (relatively) warm(er) after doing your winter swap. Better than having your summers slip and slide all over the place when the temp dip if you ask me. 🤷‍♂️

I stand by the fact that you’ll be able to push the car with dedicated winters more than you would with A/S, even in the warmer parts of your winter. That performance, 12 months a year, is nonnegotiable for me, personally. I got this car because I love the hell out of it and DD it, so I want peak performance (for the current conditions) all the time.