Will a solenoid bypass do anything for those stock or with a mild tune?

Alext · 06-27-2009, 09:56 PM

Any benefit of doing it with say a SSTT?

135forthewin · 06-27-2009, 11:30 PM

+1

Alext · 06-28-2009, 08:40 AM

Anyone know the definitive answer?

TwinTurboXI · 06-28-2009, 10:16 AM

You're Supposed to do it with Jb+ at 90-100% so i would say yes...

RynoDyno312 · 06-28-2009, 10:58 AM

It couldn't hurt.

Vudoo4u2 · 06-28-2009, 12:57 PM

no, it wont do anything beneficial <--fact

to quote shiv in his "how to make a boost controller yourself" diy:

"-You will need to do some variation of a solenoid bypass if you want to raise boost much above 12psi. If not, you will get a "boost too low" code/limp. This is caused when the ECU can't achieve the desired boost within the solenoid duty cycle range it believes it should operate in. Unfortunately, a solenoid bypass does reduce the operating efficiency of the boost control system, making it more subject to spikes and oscillations."

which leads me to the moral of my post:
dont mess with your tune...stacking, altering...none of it will help you edge out more juice. If you want more power, change your tune, dont try to tweak it and risk damaging your engine by running the tune outside of its programmed parameters

645Nm · 06-28-2009, 01:18 PM

Running JB3 maps 6 and 7 without solenoid bypass and getting very, very strong boost with supporting mods.

Can't see why you would need to change for SSTT, which does not boost that high.

kentgbr · 06-28-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 645Nm

Running JB3 maps 6 and 7 without solenoid bypass and getting very, very strong boost with supporting mods.

Can't see why you would need to change for SSTT, which does not boost that high.

These are two seperate issues. The JB3 doesn't need a bypass because it has built-in drive circuitry for the solenoids. Tunes that do not drive the solenoids like the SSTT and JB+ may benefit from a bypass because the boost increase not seen by the DME causes a duty-cycle increase that is seen. If it thinks the duty-cycle is too high for the apparent boost a code is thrown. The solenoid bypass lowers the observed duty-cycle keeping the DME happy.

golfinz · 06-28-2009, 02:40 PM

Where is the diy on the solenoid bypass?

645Nm · 06-28-2009, 03:00 PM

I hope I am still on topic.

kentgbr, I am glad you said "...may benefit..."

There is no gains to be had with a parallel or another solenoid boost kit if you are running SSTT.

My understanding is that the bypass alow both solenoids to boost at the same time (or so the ECU thinks) instead of just one (spreading load). And esssentially trick the ECU to allow the turbos to spool faster.

My point is the turbos WILL spool faster when boost is increased as per example SSTT, whithout a bypass and therefore no need to fool it with a bypass. A bypass will not stop the ECU from throwing a code either. Why would it throw a code if boost is increased (without a bypass)? A mere bypass "could" also throw a code-try doing a boost bypass on a stock car - it WILL throw a limp code!

JB3 v 1.3 "may" also throw a code on higher boost maps but I haven't had any so far even on race map 7.

My suggestion is, which have been made by Vudu4y2, is to consider another tune where you can run much bigger boost - again without a bypass.

marconi118 · 06-29-2009, 11:12 AM

Actually JB3 has NO boost solenoid control.

I sow many pictures of the JB3 interna, pn the circuit there is no power transistor to control independently the solenoid.

there are only 2 big resistors that adds opening of the solenoid to what the DME decides.
This is exactly the same as doing the solenoid bypass... only a more elegant and invisible way...

Only procede has the hardware to control the solenoids... and of course a FLASH

I am persuaded that the bypass is good, it closes more the wastgates at low RPM, and on my e93 07-07 33.1 the boost comes quicker than without bypass

even with bypass the DME has plenty of possibility to open the wastegates using the remanent solenoid, had never code or malfunction.

645Nm · 06-29-2009, 01:14 PM

Thanks for the info. Just wondering if the BT tool could work its magic here as well...and do what a flash does...would be

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 06-29-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marconi118

Actually JB3 has NO boost solenoid control.

I sow many pictures of the JB3 interna, pn the circuit there is no power transistor to control independently the solenoid.

there are only 2 big resistors that adds opening of the solenoid to what the DME decides.
This is exactly the same as doing the solenoid bypass... only a more elegant and invisible way...

Only procede has the hardware to control the solenoids... and of course a FLASH

I am persuaded that the bypass is good, it closes more the wastgates at low RPM, and on my e93 07-07 33.1 the boost comes quicker than without bypass

even with bypass the DME has plenty of possibility to open the wastegates using the remanent solenoid, had never code or malfunction.

Technically there is a huge difference between the way the JB3 controls the boost solenoids, and what the vacuum line bypass does. For starters the vacuum line bypass is static and can not be programmed. The JB3 is programmed to open the solenoids the exact amount required to keep the actual boost at the boost target. This amount varies from moment to moment and is determined by a PID system indexed by RPM, TPS, Baro, IAT, and various user settings.

Mike

marconi118 · 06-29-2009, 04:09 PM

how will JB3 control the solenoid if there is no transisto on the board to drive it?
A PIC processor can't drive a big charge (maybe 500mA) if the solenoid directly.

If there is no transistor to do that, then JB3 adds static solenoid the same way as the bypass does.

Or at least show me on the jb3 board where is the fransistor that drives the solenoid...

RambleJ · 06-29-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marconi118

how will JB3 control the solenoid if there is no transisto on the board to drive it?
A PIC processor can't drive a big charge (maybe 500mA) if the solenoid directly.

If there is no transistor to do that, then JB3 adds static solenoid the same way as the bypass does.

Or at least show me on the jb3 board where is the fransistor that drives the solenoid...

You might want to post this question on N54tech.com and ask the "man" himself..

Jeff335i · 06-29-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 645Nm

JB3 v 1.3 "may" also throw a code on higher boost maps but I haven't had any so far even on race map 7.

Map 7 ain't a race map for JB3 1.3...

TwinTurboXI · 06-29-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RambleJ

You might want to post this question on N54tech.com and ask the "man" himself..

Its on n54tech...

RambleJ · 06-29-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinTurboXI

Its on n54tech...

Oh.. For some reason that site is blocked from my work computer..

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 06-29-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marconi118

how will JB3 control the solenoid if there is no transisto on the board to drive it?
A PIC processor can't drive a big charge (maybe 500mA) if the solenoid directly.

If there is no transistor to do that, then JB3 adds static solenoid the same way as the bypass does.

Or at least show me on the jb3 board where is the fransistor that drives the solenoid...

It has a big 2 amp transistor. The PIC can only drive 25ma per pin. You can guess the HFE.

Mike

marconi118 · 07-01-2009, 02:56 AM

If it has 2 big transistors, then I apologise for my previous information.
Of course they habe big HFE !!!

Sorry, I didn't sow them on seme pictures of the borad I sow in the forun.
Could you post a picture of the board? recto/verso?

06-27-2009, 09:56 PM	#1
Alext Banned 141 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	Will a solenoid bypass do anything for those stock or with a mild tune? Any benefit of doing it with say a SSTT?
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06-27-2009, 11:30 PM	#2
135forthewin Lieutenant 50 Rep 546 Posts Drives: sideways Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: U.S. iTrader: (0)	+1 __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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06-28-2009, 08:40 AM	#3
Alext Banned 141 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	Anyone know the definitive answer?
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06-28-2009, 10:16 AM	#4
TwinTurboXI Lieutenant Colonel 160 Rep 1,523 Posts Drives: 2011 135i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . iTrader: (12)	You're Supposed to do it with Jb+ at 90-100% so i would say yes...
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06-28-2009, 10:58 AM	#5
RynoDyno312 Private 0 Rep 86 Posts Drives: 2007 AW 335i Stepronic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Santa Barbara/Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	It couldn't hurt. __________________ Alpine White/Black E90 335i ZSP Stepronic; DCI/JB+
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06-28-2009, 12:57 PM	#6
Vudoo4u2 Night Sh1ft 460 Rep 3,079 Posts Drives: F95 X5MC LCI Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: It's bobsled time iTrader: (3) Garage List 2024 BMW X5M Compet ... [0.00]	no, it wont do anything beneficial <--fact to quote shiv in his "how to make a boost controller yourself" diy: "-You will need to do some variation of a solenoid bypass if you want to raise boost much above 12psi. If not, you will get a "boost too low" code/limp. This is caused when the ECU can't achieve the desired boost within the solenoid duty cycle range it believes it should operate in. Unfortunately, a solenoid bypass does reduce the operating efficiency of the boost control system, making it more subject to spikes and oscillations." which leads me to the moral of my post: dont mess with your tune...stacking, altering...none of it will help you edge out more juice. If you want more power, change your tune, dont try to tweak it and risk damaging your engine by running the tune outside of its programmed parameters __________________ "Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.” ― Henri Cartier-Bresson
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06-28-2009, 01:18 PM	#7
645Nm only in it for the torque - awuleth'umshini wami 50 Rep 425 Posts Drives: sapphire black 335i Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: nomad iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 335i sedan [0.00] 2005 120D [0.00] 2007 335i sedan [0.00]	Don't go changing! Running JB3 maps 6 and 7 without solenoid bypass and getting very, very strong boost with supporting mods. Can't see why you would need to change for SSTT, which does not boost that high. __________________
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06-28-2009, 02:40 PM	#9
golfinz Captain 235 Rep 759 Posts Drives: Tanzanite M3 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: usa iTrader: (3)	Where is the diy on the solenoid bypass?
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06-28-2009, 03:00 PM	#10
645Nm only in it for the torque - awuleth'umshini wami 50 Rep 425 Posts Drives: sapphire black 335i Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: nomad iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 335i sedan [0.00] 2005 120D [0.00] 2007 335i sedan [0.00]	I hope I am still on topic. kentgbr, I am glad you said "...may benefit..." There is no gains to be had with a parallel or another solenoid boost kit if you are running SSTT. My understanding is that the bypass alow both solenoids to boost at the same time (or so the ECU thinks) instead of just one (spreading load). And esssentially trick the ECU to allow the turbos to spool faster. My point is the turbos WILL spool faster when boost is increased as per example SSTT, whithout a bypass and therefore no need to fool it with a bypass. A bypass will not stop the ECU from throwing a code either. Why would it throw a code if boost is increased (without a bypass)? A mere bypass "could" also throw a code-try doing a boost bypass on a stock car - it WILL throw a limp code! JB3 v 1.3 "may" also throw a code on higher boost maps but I haven't had any so far even on race map 7. My suggestion is, which have been made by Vudu4y2, is to consider another tune where you can run much bigger boost - again without a bypass. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-29-2009, 11:12 AM	#11
marconi118 Major 94 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: 06/07 e93 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: europe iTrader: (0)	Actually JB3 has NO boost solenoid control. I sow many pictures of the JB3 interna, pn the circuit there is no power transistor to control independently the solenoid. there are only 2 big resistors that adds opening of the solenoid to what the DME decides. This is exactly the same as doing the solenoid bypass... only a more elegant and invisible way... Only procede has the hardware to control the solenoids... and of course a FLASH I am persuaded that the bypass is good, it closes more the wastgates at low RPM, and on my e93 07-07 33.1 the boost comes quicker than without bypass even with bypass the DME has plenty of possibility to open the wastegates using the remanent solenoid, had never code or malfunction.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-29-2009, 01:14 PM	#12
645Nm only in it for the torque - awuleth'umshini wami 50 Rep 425 Posts Drives: sapphire black 335i Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: nomad iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 335i sedan [0.00] 2005 120D [0.00] 2007 335i sedan [0.00]	Thanks for the info. Just wondering if the BT tool could work its magic here as well...and do what a flash does...would be __________________
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06-29-2009, 04:09 PM	#14
marconi118 Major 94 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: 06/07 e93 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: europe iTrader: (0)	how will JB3 control the solenoid if there is no transisto on the board to drive it? A PIC processor can't drive a big charge (maybe 500mA) if the solenoid directly. If there is no transistor to do that, then JB3 adds static solenoid the same way as the bypass does. Or at least show me on the jb3 board where is the fransistor that drives the solenoid...
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07-01-2009, 02:56 AM	#20
marconi118 Major 94 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: 06/07 e93 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: europe iTrader: (0)	If it has 2 big transistors, then I apologise for my previous information. Of course they habe big HFE !!! Sorry, I didn't sow them on seme pictures of the borad I sow in the forun. Could you post a picture of the board? recto/verso?
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