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      04-11-2019, 10:27 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickburn7 View Post
I'm first on the list for the 992 turbo to replace the F90 as my daily. It looks amazing and just hope it doesn't weigh much more than the 991.2 Turbo.



[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

I thought about waiting - but I could not. I am already subscribed to your impressions of the 992 Turbo.
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      04-11-2019, 10:38 PM   #46
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Ya'll are killing me... really trying to wait for 992. In fact I just want the 992 targa 4s and it'll be the ultimate SoCal GT and I'll cruise around leisurely with the wind in my hair...


but then you have to remind me about the TTS times.... It's an unbelievable car
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      04-12-2019, 12:27 AM   #47
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Now that I have that idea - I looked up the Exclusive - and beyond the 27 extra HP - another key is that 553 lb ft is on all the time - no overboost function of brief 553 levels. I think that is big. Porsche doesn't claim any better performance from the standard Turbo S - except 0-124 MPH - where they say it is .3 seconds quicker. About exactly what I thought your ET would have been at your altitude before you showed up with a 10.5.

"The 3.8-liter twin-turbocharged flat-six is fitted with a model-specific powerkit, boosting output to a stunning 607 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque. This is 27 extra ponies over the regular Turbo S, and while that torque figure is unchanged, the ES has 553 lb-ft on tap at all times—the pedestrian Turbo S only sees that peak briefly with the standard overboost function."
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      04-12-2019, 08:57 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickburn7 View Post
I'm first on the list for the 992 turbo to replace the F90 as my daily. It looks amazing and just hope it doesn't weigh much more than the 991.2 Turbo.



[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
That will be a killer ride with the much better tech. Additional aluminum components will help offset the new transmission weight and safety weight adds, but the total weight will be around 160lbs heavier than a 991.2 TTS. That will definitely be offset with more power. Adding the Panamera transmission and the front structure for potential electric motors does offset the geopolitical fear all automotive producers now face.
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      04-12-2019, 09:16 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
Now that I have that idea - I looked up the Exclusive - and beyond the 27 extra HP - another key is that 553 lb ft is on all the time - no overboost function of brief 553 levels. I think that is big. Porsche doesn't claim any better performance from the standard Turbo S - except 0-124 MPH - where they say it is .3 seconds quicker. About exactly what I thought your ET would have been at your altitude before you showed up with a 10.5.

"The 3.8-liter twin-turbocharged flat-six is fitted with a model-specific powerkit, boosting output to a stunning 607 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque. This is 27 extra ponies over the regular Turbo S, and while that torque figure is unchanged, the ES has 553 lb-ft on tap at all times—the pedestrian Turbo S only sees that peak briefly with the standard overboost function."
I found another piece of the puzzle.

On all of the +1000hp turbo cars that I have tuned with BS3, Haltech,EfiLive,HPT, etc the tuning platform is constant. VE vs RPM vs Timing vs Boost vs AFR vs Safety vs Cylinder Pressure vs Octane vs IAT. Populate the tables and horsepower/torque is locked down vs boost and DA.

Porsche (and some others like BMW with less sophistication) is not following that protocol. Porsche is applying Torque Modeling vs Mass AirFlow modeling. Very sophisticated matrix style predictive tuning.

Bottom line is Instead if locking down the Boost Psi, as all the other methods do, Porsche targets the same power at sea level vs my 3500ft DA by varying the boost based on the DME calculating Real Time DA. One magazine tested the theory and dyno’d A TTS at high elevation vs Sea Level. They could not use any correction factors and it was +- 10 HP on multiple dyno’s.

No models are perfect, so my car at sea level will be quicker and faster, but probably not by large margins.

Even if it matches my 10.51 at 131 with a 1.60 sixty at Brooks sea level track at PBIR, that’s 3 mph more than a 2018 just ran there. There is more power in the ‘19’s.
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      04-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #50
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That 1.53 sixty on a prepped track would lower my 10.51
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      04-12-2019, 09:24 AM   #51
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The true BENCHMARK
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      04-12-2019, 09:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
I found another piece of the puzzle.

On all of the +1000hp turbo cars that I have tuned with BS3, Haltech,EfiLive,HPT, etc the tuning platform is constant. VE vs RPM vs Timing vs Boost vs AFR vs Safety vs Cylinder Pressure vs Octane vs IAT. Populate the tables and horsepower/torque is locked down vs boost and DA.

Porsche (and some others like BMW with less sophistication) is not following that protocol. Porsche is applying Torque Modeling vs Mass AirFlow modeling. Very sophisticated matrix style predictive tuning.

Bottom line is Instead if locking down the Boost Psi, as all the other methods do, Porsche targets the same power at sea level vs my 3500ft DA by varying the boost based on the DME calculating Real Time DA. One magazine tested the theory and dyno’d A TTS at high elevation vs Sea Level. They could not use any correction factors and it was +- 10 HP on multiple dyno’s.

No models are perfect, so my car at sea level will be quicker and faster, but probably not by large margins.

Even if it matches my 10.51 at 131 with a 1.60 sixty at Brooks sea level track at PBIR, that’s 3 mph more than a 2018 just ran there. There is more power in the ‘19’s.
As always - thank-you for the data.

Another reason I will not mod this car is the torque modelling. The C7Z has that as well - and it is a pain (at least from what I saw).
That said - what I am happy about is that these cars seem to be quicker and faster. 3 MPH is exactly the difference I assumed you would run (128).

Pretty cool stuff!
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      04-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
As always - thank-you for the data.

Another reason I will not mod this car is the torque modelling. The C7Z has that as well - and it is a pain (at least from what I saw).
That said - what I am happy about is that these cars seem to be quicker and faster. 3 MPH is exactly the difference I assumed you would run (128).

Pretty cool stuff!
Not a 2019, but it does directly illustrate the Airflow Model Porsche is using ( RaceChip also does not use correction factors on their 911 dyne tests now due to the same issue):


On the 911 Turbo S, using the correction added a whopping 47hp... When in fact no correction should have been added at all...

So to test these theories, Sport Auto took a 911 Turbo S to three different dynos in Germany (all MAHA).

The dynos where on three different altitudes (757m, 271m, 85m) and outside temperature varied from 15,3 deg C to 20,5 deg C

NO correction was added of course. The results was as follows:

Dyno 1 - MAHA in Haldenwang, 757m, 15,3 deg C
Crank HP - 567hp @ 6340rpm
Crank TQ - 764,8NM @ 2770rpm

Dyno 2 - "Müller prüft" in Backnang, 271m, 20,5 deg C
Crank HP - 563,4hp @ 6565rpm
Crank TQ - 764,3NM @ 2815pm

Dyno 3 - DTE Systems in Recklinghausen, 85m, 19 deg C
Crank HP - 564,1hp @ 6550rpm
Crank TQ - 758,5NM @ 3465rpm

THAT IS PRETTY COOL TECH !
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      04-12-2019, 11:08 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
I found another piece of the puzzle.

Porsche (and some others like BMW with less sophistication) is not following that protocol. Porsche is applying Torque Modeling vs Mass AirFlow modeling. Very sophisticated matrix style predictive tuning.

Bottom line is Instead if locking down the Boost Psi, as all the other methods do, Porsche targets the same power at sea level vs my 3500ft DA by varying the boost based on the DME calculating Real Time DA.
I don't understand the technicalities of what you're talking about, but what you're describing is why BMW no longer has MAF sensors on the F90 intake tract? Is the change to electronic control of the turbo waste gates instead of vacuum also part of the predictive tuning?
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      04-12-2019, 11:21 AM   #55
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Yes to both. I opened my Zo6 with HPT and the GM modeling (speed density)is archaic as compared to BMW. Porsche has taken it to another level.
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      04-12-2019, 04:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Waiting for M3 is harder then I taught. I start looking at tts

I need to stop reading this forum. Lol
I like your signature.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Waiting for M3 is harder then I taught. I start looking at tts

I need to stop reading this forum. Lol
I like your sig too lol.

T - it makes sense to me - the 617 HP...There is something about the claim that makes sense to me. Last year of the 991.2. This is his first car to over perform compared to the average. The 617 HP Exclusive was the last Turbo S before the 2019's.

We shall see. I think a sub 7 second 60-130 will also speak volumes here.
Thanks, I am in depression mode. Lol
TTS is one of mine favorite car, I did read about new 911 improvements and makes me want to wait but I can't. Lol
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      04-15-2019, 01:17 PM   #57
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Dropped the tire pressure to 35/38 cold. Boom. 1.58 sixty. 2.50 0-60mph and 10.46 1/4 mile pure stock. Crazy.
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      04-15-2019, 01:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Dropped the tire pressure to 35/38 cold. Boom. 1.58 sixty. 2.50 0-60mph and 10.46 1/4 mile pure stock. Crazy.
Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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      04-15-2019, 02:22 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Dropped the tire pressure to 35/38 cold. Boom. 1.58 sixty. 2.50 0-60mph and 10.46 1/4 mile pure stock. Crazy.
Wow. That is nuts. I wonder how much of the tuning potential these now-factory enhancements have eaten into. Are there 9s in this thing?

I was playing around yesterday on some deserted farm roads; given it was only 47 degrees and the road was well covered in shit (literally), I came away impressed:
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      04-15-2019, 02:25 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Wow. That is nuts. I wonder how much of the tuning potential these now-factory enhancements have eaten into. Are there 9s in this thing?

I was playing around yesterday on some deserted farm roads; given it was only 47 degrees and the road was well covered in shit (literally), I came away impressed:
Really you are running 130 stock?
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      04-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #61
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That is rapid for stock, how did you get out of the hole ?, with launch ?
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      04-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Wow. That is nuts. I wonder how much of the tuning potential these now-factory enhancements have eaten into. Are there 9s in this thing?

I was playing around yesterday on some deserted farm roads; given it was only 47 degrees and the road was well covered in shit (literally), I came away impressed:
Really you are running 130 stock?
No no. That's with the JB.

If you're getting that from the Dragy screenshot, then understandable--I posted a comment on the leaderboard because I was unable to change the tuner; kept failing saying no Internet.
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      04-15-2019, 02:41 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
No no. That's with the JB.

If you're getting that from the Dragy screenshot, then understandable--I posted a comment on the leaderboard because I was unable to change the tuner; kept failing saying no Internet.
That’s a great time WITH JB4. I’m 10.8 at 129 with RaceChip.
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      04-15-2019, 03:33 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
No no. That's with the JB.

If you're getting that from the Dragy screenshot, then understandable--I posted a comment on the leaderboard because I was unable to change the tuner; kept failing saying no Internet.
That’s a great time WITH JB4. I’m 10.8 at 129 with RaceChip.
Agreed. It's a conservative map, too, because of this gobshite fuel we're subject to in WA.

She got off of the line well enough albeit with a necessary short-shift to counteract some hop but what impresses me most is that I got this on the worst possible type of undulating surface. I'm pretty sure I got some air around a ton... my seat-of-the-pants Dyno might have benefited from a diaper at that point.
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      04-15-2019, 04:35 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
No no. That's with the JB.

If you're getting that from the Dragy screenshot, then understandable--I posted a comment on the leaderboard because I was unable to change the tuner; kept failing saying no Internet.
Ahhhh yes I perused rather quickly over your pics and saw "stock" and immediately got mad at you.

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      04-15-2019, 04:36 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
That’s a great time WITH JB4. I’m 10.8 at 129 with RaceChip.
And you have shit DA
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