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      09-03-2019, 10:51 PM   #23
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      09-04-2019, 12:35 AM   #24
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So, BMW claimed that the M5 couldn't be paired with their DCT because the engine makes too much HP. Was this truly the reason they axed the DCT from the M5? I see other automakers building new DCT's for their upcoming cars. Both Ford and Chevy are building DCT's for their respective super cars, GT500 and Corvette C8, respectively. Also, Ferrari 812 Superfast is over 700hp and is mated to a DCT and the list goes on and on.

What is the real reason BMW opted for a ZF in the M5?
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      09-04-2019, 01:33 AM   #25
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So, BMW claimed that the M5 couldn't be paired with their DCT because the engine makes too much HP. Was this truly the reason they axed the DCT from the M5? I see other automakers building new DCT's for their upcoming cars. Both Ford and Chevy are building DCT's for their respective super cars, GT500 and Corvette C8, respectively. Also, Ferrari 812 Superfast is over 700hp and is mated to a DCT and the list goes on and on.

What is the real reason BMW opted for a ZF in the M5?
ZF gave them a good deal
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      09-04-2019, 02:05 AM   #26
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What is the real reason BMW opted for a ZF in the M5?
Money. The previous DCT transmission wasn't suitable for AWD and they already install ZF8s for pretty much all other high end BMWs.

There's plenty of tuned F10s that were doing well over 800whp and were holding up just fine. The investment to strengthen the DCT wasn't that big, so they definitely could have done it, they just chose the easier and cheaper way.
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      09-07-2019, 09:56 AM   #27
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So no fun like the DCT as in Upshifts & Downshifts.
The ZF is a huge letdown if you love the DCT. It's a big step backwards as other parts of the car have taken a big leap forwards.
All the innovation seems to be on this side of the pond for now. for a company (BMW) that is still holding on the ICE, where is the exciting 8500 RPM engine in the M5. Ford is doing it. there is nothing bold in the f90, nothing new except borrowing the xdrive system from a 750i and giving it drift mode 2wd. oh and don't forget the new red M mode buttons.

I gotta say I NEVER gave a vette a passing look but I have to admit that the new C8 is exciting as the F90 is dull. even though they copied a 458 Italia. bespoke engines (coming soon in zr1), bespoke design and presence, finally up the game in the interior, and a bespoke DCT. you notice none of these top performers use a slushbox. although we are told to love the ZFAT I'm sorry I can't for top performers. just listen to how crisp and immediate the DCT is on the C8.

now that the f90 has essentially taken the place of a m550i. they need to make a new M car model from an updated parts bin. a high rev v8 with a DCT and a xdrive or an electric motor up front. if chevy can do all these new things on the c8 for $60K then bmw can do much better at $120k. end rant.
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      09-07-2019, 09:03 PM   #28
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Found this interesting. I didn't know that the ZF was used in so many other cars. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...pAVQ1i1gt6DssU
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      09-08-2019, 01:24 AM   #29
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Yep. Just the downshifts not as crisp from 3rd to 2nd because of the ratio spread or programming. Otherwise the f90 is fucking fast with the commander
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      09-08-2019, 04:21 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by VAUROS View Post
So, BMW claimed that the M5 couldn't be paired with their DCT because the engine makes too much HP. Was this truly the reason they axed the DCT from the M5? I see other automakers building new DCT's for their upcoming cars. Both Ford and Chevy are building DCT's for their respective super cars, GT500 and Corvette C8, respectively. Also, Ferrari 812 Superfast is over 700hp and is mated to a DCT and the list goes on and on.

What is the real reason BMW opted for a ZF in the M5?
The explanation given was BS. I personally believe they couldn’t properly engineer a smooth DCT and gave up. After driving several Porsche vehicles with PDK it’s clearly possible.
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      09-08-2019, 10:39 PM   #31
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So, BMW claimed that the M5 couldn't be paired with their DCT because the engine makes too much HP. Was this truly the reason they axed the DCT from the M5? I see other automakers building new DCT's for their upcoming cars. Both Ford and Chevy are building DCT's for their respective super cars, GT500 and Corvette C8, respectively. Also, Ferrari 812 Superfast is over 700hp and is mated to a DCT and the list goes on and on.

What is the real reason BMW opted for a ZF in the M5?
The explanation given was BS. I personally believe they couldn’t properly engineer a smooth DCT and gave up. After driving several Porsche vehicles with PDK it’s clearly possible.
Yea, that has to be the case. I'm going to get a GT3 in a few years and can't wait to try the PDK (assuming I don't break and get the manual instead).
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      09-15-2019, 07:17 AM   #32
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the F90 in D or Manual mode will creep forward like a traditional auto unlike the DCT. that for me is a big let down. The whole package however makes up for this "flaw"
Could use Auto Hold (not 100% the same I realize)
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      09-15-2019, 09:05 AM   #33
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the F90 in D or Manual mode will creep forward like a traditional auto unlike the DCT. that for me is a big let down. The whole package however makes up for this "flaw"
Could use Auto Hold (not 100% the same I realize)
Actually, it's precisely what I use and it mimics the old DCT behaviors near perfectly as long as you come to a stop with the brake.
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      09-15-2019, 03:34 PM   #34
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Dct is more playful and Zf is more smoother .
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      09-15-2019, 04:43 PM   #35
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I know this is a little bit off topic
I like the ZF , but my biggest change that I am still adjusting to are the gear ratios compared to F10
I have not had my F10 for several years but if I can recall well, third gear was much longer and I used it all the time merging into traffic and was just perfect
it seems now I find myself upshifting to 4th gear to reach same speed on the same ramps that I drive to work
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      09-16-2019, 12:31 AM   #36
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I know this is a little bit off topic
I like the ZF , but my biggest change that I am still adjusting to are the gear ratios compared to F10
I have not had my F10 for several years but if I can recall well, third gear was much longer and I used it all the time merging into traffic and was just perfect
it seems now I find myself upshifting to 4th gear to reach same speed on the same ramps that I drive to work
Maybe it has to do with the extra gear in the ZF (7-speed DCT vs 8-speed ZF).
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      09-16-2019, 01:47 AM   #37
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The ZF8 has very different gear ratios compared to the DCT. 1-3 gears feel really short. ZF8's 3rd gear has ratio of 2.106 vs DCT's 1.701.
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