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      12-16-2021, 11:36 AM   #1
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F90 vs F10 thoughts

I traded in my 2014 M5 Comp with dinan tune for a 2018 M5 a couple weeks ago. I was very on the fence about pursuing the next M5 so I actually test drove a 2018 M3 CS and M5 back to back.

My thoughts first on my 2014 M5: love the car, pulls like crazy, no traction until 3rd, not as settled in the corners as I'd like. Great looks. This car always felt too fast for the road, too high geared, not engaging enough. Its an amazing car cruising at 80-120 on a winding open highway but never that much fun around town. As the tires would wear out it would get a little scary losing traction in long sweepers in 3rd gear. Too have fun in this car you really need to redline 3rd gear, the only gear that gets traction and that takes you to 107 mph which is crazy fast.

The thing with the 2018 M5 is its like they listened to all my complaints and changed things where they needed to. With the awd they were able to add a gear (8) and gear everything down. 5th gear in this car is like 3rd in the F10. I don't miss the DCT at all, this tranny works great. The surprising thing is the suspension is very tight and the steering in sport plus feels like less angle is required to turn which makes the car feel more agile. I feel way more stable in a turn. I really feel like they've made this car feel smaller. Needless to say, the awd and the closer gears makes the car way more engaging around town, more gear changes etc. The traction off the line of course is amazing. The sound is louder but now you can turn off the open exhaust with a press of a button, the F10 I had the valves wired open for sound. The new M5 is just louder and pops and burbles. The interior is a big improvement as well and the seats are amazing.

I feel like this car is more useable and I will have more fun at lower speeds. Like 0-100 where as the F10 was really useable more in the 60-120 realm. The newer M5 still can feel very relaxed on the highway the the overall feel of the car in comfort modes just feels more mature. The car feels lighter and stiffer in the right places.

I added a racechip piggy back and its even more amazing. The pull thru gears feels magic. Supposedly the car has 750hp at the engine with this $600 piggy back. I don't doubt it the way it feels but I haven't dyno'd the car.

Anyway, just wanted to let you all know my thoughts if anyone is on the fence.
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      12-16-2021, 02:26 PM   #2
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Nice review. I have a 16 F10 and 22 E90 on order produced the 3rd week in January. Anxious to see the differences.
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      12-16-2021, 02:59 PM   #3
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Your negatives are the exact reasons I've kept mine!

Everyone's different

Enjoy it.
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      12-17-2021, 09:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somer View Post
Your negatives are the exact reasons I've kept mine!

Everyone's different

Enjoy it.
Then why are you browsing the F90 boards?
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      12-17-2021, 11:22 AM   #5
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I also went from F10 to F90 M5 and your review is spot on. I am still waiting to see a thorough review of F90 M5 Competition owners who purchased the M5 CS. What's up guys?
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      12-17-2021, 12:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
I added a racechip piggy back and its even more amazing. The pull thru gears feels magic. Supposedly the car has 750hp at the engine with this $600 piggy back. I don't doubt it the way it feels but I haven't dyno'd the car.

Can you elaborate more on this? Curious as to how a piggyback tune (vs. bench tune or custom map) could add +150hp?
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      12-17-2021, 01:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsF90M5 View Post
Can you elaborate more on this? Curious as to how a piggyback tune (vs. bench tune or custom map) could add +150hp?
If you read up, the F90 stock seems to be making 660-670 ish hp. Dynos with racechip have confirmed 680 ish to the wheels.
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      12-17-2021, 01:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olis1 View Post
If you read up, the F90 stock seems to be making 660-670 ish hp. Dynos with racechip have confirmed 680 ish to the wheels.
I see; good point! Thanks for info!
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      12-17-2021, 03:12 PM   #9
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Having had a 2014 M5 and now a 20 M5 I completely agree.
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      12-17-2021, 04:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olis1 View Post
If you read up, the F90 stock seems to be making 660-670 ish hp. Dynos with racechip have confirmed 680 ish to the wheels.

Wait, what? M5 Comps make more HP than M5CS? No disrespect, but I think you got the numbers wrong.
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      12-17-2021, 04:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedBMW View Post
Wait, what? M5 Comps make more HP than M5CS? No disrespect, but I think you got the numbers wrong.
Pretty sure the CS is making over 700 hp.

Read here, believe the numbers or don't. My car feels great, just gonna enjoy it.

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=dyno

As a reference point, there is a road where I've always testing acceleration coming out of a turn, down a straight, accelerate as long as you can then brake.

Here's the numbers I've seen

E90 M3 stock 87 mph
F10 M5 Dinan tune 680 ish hp 93 mph
F90 M5 Racechip tune 750 ish hp 102 mph

Maybe that's all gearing or hp or both. This test is rolling out of a corner at 30 and accelerating.
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      12-17-2021, 05:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olis1 View Post
Pretty sure the CS is making over 700 hp.

Read here, believe the numbers or don't. My car feels great, just gonna enjoy it.

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=dyno

As a reference point, there is a road where I've always testing acceleration coming out of a turn, down a straight, accelerate as long as you can then brake.

Here's the numbers I've seen

E90 M3 stock 87 mph
F10 M5 Dinan tune 680 ish hp 93 mph
F90 M5 Racechip tune 750 ish hp 102 mph

Maybe that's all gearing or hp or both. This test is rolling out of a corner at 30 and accelerating.
We talking about stock numbers, correct? I'm tracking Comp is somewhere around 620
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      12-17-2021, 05:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedBMW View Post
We talking about stock numbers, correct? I'm tracking Comp is somewhere around 620
Did you mean you think the Comp is 620 at the wheels stock?
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      12-17-2021, 06:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olis1 View Post
Did you mean you think the Comp is 620 at the wheels stock?
no, crank
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      12-18-2021, 12:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olis1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsF90M5 View Post
Can you elaborate more on this? Curious as to how a piggyback tune (vs. bench tune or custom map) could add +150hp?
If you read up, the F90 stock seems to be making 660-670 ish hp. Dynos with racechip have confirmed 680 ish to the wheels.
Your 18 has 600 at the crank stock
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      12-18-2021, 03:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4h2o View Post
Your 18 has 600 at the crank stock
no.

pre Lci's make less power than LCi but all f90's put down ~590-620 to the wheels.

account for 10-15% power loss for transfer of energy from
motor to trans to diff to pavement.. all f90's make over 650 at the crankshaft.

his tune gives 100hp at the crank via a simple boost in psi from turbos.. very standard.

piggyback tunes are garbage however by nature.
spend $1500 on a flash or go home .
get what u pay for
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      12-18-2021, 10:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayernBear7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4h2o View Post
Your 18 has 600 at the crank stock
no.

pre Lci's make less power than LCi but all f90's put down ~590-620 to the wheels.

account for 10-15% power loss for transfer of energy from
motor to trans to diff to pavement.. all f90's make over 650 at the crankshaft.

his tune gives 100hp at the crank via a simple boost in psi from turbos.. very standard.

piggyback tunes are garbage however by nature.
spend $1500 on a flash or go home .
get what u pay for
So your saying what bmw advertises as 600 crank horse power inaccurate?
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      12-21-2021, 09:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4h2o View Post
So your saying what bmw advertises as 600 crank horse power inaccurate?
Yes, that's what he's saying and what I was saying as well based on reading.

Piggyback tunes may be substandard to regular tunes but I'm on Southern California and smog fails here if they detect a tune and I still have warranty for 1.5 years so...

Some of us prefer to be a little more conservative (if you can call 750 hp conservative haha).
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      12-21-2021, 08:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4h2o View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayernBear7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4h2o View Post
Your 18 has 600 at the crank stock
no.

pre Lci's make less power than LCi but all f90's put down ~590-620 to the wheels.

account for 10-15% power loss for transfer of energy from
motor to trans to diff to pavement.. all f90's make over 650 at the crankshaft.

his tune gives 100hp at the crank via a simple boost in psi from turbos.. very standard.

piggyback tunes are garbage however by nature.
spend $1500 on a flash or go home .
get what u pay for
So your saying what bmw advertises as 600 crank horse power inaccurate?
My bone stock 18 M5 (non comp) put down 580 AWHP on a Mustang Dyno.
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      12-26-2021, 10:01 AM   #20
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F10:

Better interior build quality (with limited sample size, only been in one F10, but it was better put together than my F90)
Full leather included more
Manual transmission availability
Shift responsiveness on the "auto", especially paddle response
B+O subjectively better than B+W for me, particularly bass

F90:

Updated tech, connectivity
Interior styling (separate from build quality)
Usable traction goes a long way at this power level
The M version of Xdrive is the best AWD I've driven (the vast majority of the time it feels like RWD with extra grip and blends smoothly to AWD, only in true low traction does the transition feel even slightly abrupt to me)
Better lazy driving with the ZF auto for those times you're hauling a parent, grandparent, client, etc and you want it to stay stealth
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      12-26-2021, 10:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italiabrain View Post
F10:

Better interior build quality (with limited sample size, only been in one F10, but it was better put together than my F90)
Full leather included more
Manual transmission availability
Shift responsiveness on the "auto", especially paddle response
B+O subjectively better than B+W for me, particularly bass

F90:

Updated tech, connectivity
Interior styling (separate from build quality)
Usable traction goes a long way at this power level
The M version of Xdrive is the best AWD I've driven (the vast majority of the time it feels like RWD with extra grip and blends smoothly to AWD, only in true low traction does the transition feel even slightly abrupt to me)
Better lazy driving with the ZF auto for those times you're hauling a parent, grandparent, client, etc and you want it to stay stealth
italiabrain I am surprised the F10 has a higher quality interior. I have not been in an F10, but I probable enjoy the F90 interior more than the performance I will probably never come close to fully using. The F10 must have been really solid. I definitely like the look of the F90 more than that of the F10, but build quality cannot be so easily seen in pictures.
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      12-26-2021, 03:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall View Post
italiabrain I am surprised the F10 has a higher quality interior. I have not been in an F10, but I probable enjoy the F90 interior more than the performance I will probably never come close to fully using. The F10 must have been really solid. I definitely like the look of the F90 more than that of the F10, but build quality cannot be so easily seen in pictures.
I call BS on this one too. See several F10's interiors and they were no where near as well put together as either my 2018 M5 and 2022 M5 CS. Both were better than the F10's, on quality and feel.

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