[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by shoei

I'm sorry did I say ev bad oil good? If you can't see the irony on environmental pundits touting all the good they do for the environment is all I was saying. Nowhere did I say oil good ev bad so you can get off your soap box. Thank you for proving my point literally in seconds. Ain't nobody innocent in ev and fuel.

Exactly right. Bad is bad. Even if you want to believe “your bad” is not, but “my bad” is.

Next comes , “not as bad”……hahaha

[Superjackson]

You'd need to do 9 second flat in quarter mile to be comparable.. I guess you could if you get hybrid turbos and built motor lol. I think for gas cars to beat a plaid in acceleration for cheap, you could go with a TTRS, they can smoke the plaid with just a turbo upgrade.

[Neptune7]

I think the ship has sailed - the Plaid is just the beginning and the M5 will have to resort to MagLev technology to keep up at this rate.

But all this is worrying. I think regulators will start requiring speed limit enforcement on vehicles once more EVs hit the road. Our road networks are not designed for this kind of acceleration from the public.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

I think the ship has sailed - the Plaid is just the beginning and the M5 will have to resort to MagLev technology to keep up at this rate.

But all this is worrying. I think regulators will start requiring speed limit enforcement on vehicles once more EVs hit the road. Our road networks are not designed for this kind of acceleration from the public.

M5 compared to EV isn't the best comparison. Tesla vs E-tron / EQS / Taycan et all are the competitors. And they're all catching up in terms of performance and have surpassed Tesla in terms of interior quality / fit and finish.

Tesla isn't as viable. Auto manufacturers survive on single digit percentage points for margins. They are profitable because of the sheer amount of vehicles they sell. Tesla doesn't have that ability as of now. They can't pump out millions of cars a year.

But I think you are right on speed. A cap on speed needs to be put in place. When cars started broaching crotch rocket acceleration is when something needed to be done or said. Now we have soccer moms hitting 0-60 in 1.8 seconds.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Superjackson

You'd need to do 9 second flat in quarter mile to be comparable.. I guess you could if you get hybrid turbos and built motor lol. I think for gas cars to beat a plaid in acceleration for cheap, you could go with a TTRS, they can smoke the plaid with just a turbo upgrade.

Oouuu. RS3 too tuned. Fucking acme rocket lol.

Speaking of ACME, just heard today that James Gunn doing a live action "Coyote vs ACME" movie. Wile E coyotes vs acme I'm assuming.

[bimmerbeast7]

EV= catches fire and emits more greenhouse gases than an ice
92% of ice vehicles are recyclable
50% of ev is recyclable
Batteries rot in junkyard and seep into the water table
The amount of resources just to maket the battery in the first place

Must re-charge as s previous poster already said very comically

Take your plaid and first one to Miami from New York wins.

EV's are propaganda and it's also about control.

The means by which they are recharged now (and will be) are much less efficient and creates mors pollution than an ice

oh and Please don't charge your car in the garage or overnight for fire safety and if n California please don't charge between 5 and 10pm
bc you're pulling on the grid going to cause a black out

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by shoei

M5 compared to EV isn't the best comparison. Tesla vs E-tron / EQS / Taycan et all are the competitors. And they're all catching up in terms of performance and have surpassed Tesla in terms of interior quality / fit and finish.

Tesla isn't as viable. Auto manufacturers survive on single digit percentage points for margins. They are profitable because of the sheer amount of vehicles they sell. Tesla doesn't have that ability as of now. They can't pump out millions of cars a year.

But I think you are right on speed. A cap on speed needs to be put in place. When cars started broaching crotch rocket acceleration is when something needed to be done or said. Now we have soccer moms hitting 0-60 in 1.8 seconds.

Just the opposite. Tesla is now too big to fail. They are at 11% margin. All cars sold out through Q3 and two major factories coming up in Austin and Berlin.

They are ahead in battery, power train, technology and billions of miles of driving data with the largest charging network.

The Germans have been competing with Tesla models for at least 3-4 years now with a whole range of products.

Worst case, any auto company now given a chance would buy Tesla. They had a chance 3-4 years ago. Now they are valued at $700B.

But completion is good and it drives the industry. Competing with Tesla is like competing with Google or Apple or Amazon. Tesla is a tech company and they eat legacy companies for lunch. LOL.

Many companies seem to be firing on all cylinders right now (except Nissan)…

[shoei]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Just the opposite. Tesla is now too big to fail. They are at 11% margin. All cars sold out through Q3 and two major factories coming up in Austin and Berlin.

They are ahead in battery, power train, technology and billions of miles of driving data with the largest charging network.

The Germans have been competing with Tesla models for at least 3-4 years now with a whole range of products.

Worst case, any auto company now given a chance would buy Tesla. They had a chance 3-4 years ago. Now they are valued at $700B.

But completion is good and it drives the industry. Competing with Tesla is like competing with Google or Apple or Amazon. Tesla is a tech company and they eat legacy companies for lunch. LOL.

Many companies seem to be firing on all cylinders right now (except Nissan)…

See this is healthy convo and bantering. I would've never known Tesla is up to 11%. Everyone knows automakers would give up a kidney or two to be in double digits consistently.

The opening of other factories will help their biggest Achilles heel though. Not being able to pump out enough cars.

Where we 100% agree is, the competition is needed. Tesla is forcing the other manufacturers to step it up in all categories. Everyone knows Tesla interior is subpar - required the legacy manufacturers to step it up even more. They can't beat Tesla in performance yet nor battery life or tech, so they gotta take their W's where they can.

BMW was smart to partner with Toyota. Battery tech, hybrid tech, "flybywire" tranny tech, etc etc. I am more intrigued with M / AMG / RS cars having hybrid engines coming up. That's going to be exciting times for us. I'm not ready to give up audible sounds just yet. Still young still drive by sound. I grew up riding and racing motorcycles. @Sedan_Clan probably same way - we learn to ride / drive by engine sounds not glancing down at the tach. When I'm older and more senile, fine. But I'm not ready just yet to start acting like a responsible adult.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by shoei

See this is healthy convo and bantering. I would've never known Tesla is up to 11%. Everyone knows automakers would give up a kidney or two to be in double digits consistently.

The opening of other factories will help their biggest Achilles heel though. Not being able to pump out enough cars.

Where we 100% agree is, the competition is needed. Tesla is forcing the other manufacturers to step it up in all categories. Everyone knows Tesla interior is subpar - required the legacy manufacturers to step it up even more. They can't beat Tesla in performance yet nor battery life or tech, so they gotta take their W's where they can.

BMW was smart to partner with Toyota. Battery tech, hybrid tech, "flybywire" tranny tech, etc etc. I am more intrigued with M / AMG / RS cars having hybrid engines coming up. That's going to be exciting times for us. I'm not ready to give up audible sounds just yet. Still young still drive by sound. I grew up riding and racing motorcycles. @Sedan_Clan probably same way - we learn to ride / drive by engine sounds not glancing down at the tach. When I'm older and more senile, fine. But I'm not ready just yet to start acting like a responsible adult.

So true! I rarely look at the tachometer. It's all by sound.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So true! I rarely look at the tachometer. It's all by sound.

It's habit we picked up from riding I'm sure of it. To this day, if I'm in a cager, I still constantly scan the road while I'm driving without realizing it. It's minimal head movements now but I've had girlfriends in the past ask what or who I'm looking for while I'm driving, lol. But heads constantly on a swivel and I like to drive with windows down so I can hear engine rpms and other vehicles on the road. Good habits we learned. That and getting "god complex" out of my system when I was younger. That's the best description when you're on a crotch rocket and young / immature. God complex on two wheels knowing nothings touching you outside top end on the freeway.

[brad65ford]

Originally Posted by Superjackson

You'd need to do 9 second flat in quarter mile to be comparable.. I guess you could if you get hybrid turbos and built motor lol. I think for gas cars to beat a plaid in acceleration for cheap, you could go with a TTRS, they can smoke the plaid with just a turbo upgrade.

Incorrect. It takes a lot of money to make an rs3 or ttrs into the low 9's and even more into the 8's, more than people think.. well.... to do it right anyway. Stock rods are soft and can't handle more than 600 ftlb of torque, many have destroyed their motors attempting to run 9's on stock block, if you want to turn up the power the motor needs to be build, and clutches, fuel system etc... I have a fully built RS3 myself so I know whats involved. For reference one of Iroz's really fast customer's rs3 just went up for sale, believe it just tapped into the high 8's. Its selling for 200k, most likely won't get it but 150k+ is what it can go for easy. Give a look at the used R8/Hur twin turbo builds and they are going for 250+ easy. All that time, money and energy to which anyone can assure you they don't drive like stock anymore plus you have to run race fuel or similar, stripped all its weight, light weight parts, smaller brakes, removing seats just to achieve those performance numbers oh and don't forget a loud ass exhaust you wouldn't want to drive daily etc.. In the end just get a plaid or what ever else is coming out similarly in the next 5-10 years will be beyond impressive.

Nothing really can compared to the plaid in regards to stock, quiet and repeatable performance like that.

[dogears]

Until this quarter, Tesla only made money from the billions in regulatory credits the government hands them. They got hundreds of millions this quarter too. Their profit margin is nowhere close to 11% I believe on a bottom line basis. https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/2...ssions-bitcoin

Last quarter they lost money without Bitcoin sales and tax credit sales. https://markets.businessinsider.com/...entures-2021-4

From what I have read, Lucid’s tech is very impressive and stylistically their car is far superior to Tesla. Tesla has serious competition.

Originally Posted by FCX5

Just the opposite. Tesla is now too big to fail. They are at 11% margin. All cars sold out through Q3 and two major factories coming up in Austin and Berlin.

They are ahead in battery, power train, technology and billions of miles of driving data with the largest charging network.

The Germans have been competing with Tesla models for at least 3-4 years now with a whole range of products.

Worst case, any auto company now given a chance would buy Tesla. They had a chance 3-4 years ago. Now they are valued at $700B.

But completion is good and it drives the industry. Competing with Tesla is like competing with Google or Apple or Amazon. Tesla is a tech company and they eat legacy companies for lunch. LOL.

Many companies seem to be firing on all cylinders right now (except Nissan)…

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by dogears

Until this quarter, Tesla only made money from the billions in regulatory credits the government hands them. They got hundreds of millions this quarter too. Their profit margin is nowhere close to 11% I believe on a bottom line basis. https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/2...ssions-bitcoin

Last quarter they lost money without Bitcoin sales and tax credit sales. https://markets.businessinsider.com/...entures-2021-4

From what I have read, Lucid's tech is very impressive and stylistically their car is far superior to Tesla. Tesla has serious competition.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/26/te...ses-1-billion/

Tesla's automotive revenue was $10.2 billion in the second quarter. Notably, only $354 million of that automotive revenue came from the sale of regulatory credits, 17% lower than last quarter and the lowest in the past four quarters. Meanwhile, Tesla's automotive gross margins popped to 28.4%, a historic high for the metric.

It will get better for them…

https://insideevs.com/news/516187/te...odely-sold-q3/

Let's talk when Lucid Motors releases something….

[dogears]

This year maybe? https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/lu...fashion-square

I would much rather have a Lucid than a Tesla. That Tesla fit and finish…. although I hear Plaid is slightly better. But that Yoke…. The inside is just not attractive. I am not an ICE snob, just the Tesla fit and finish and style is meh.

Originally Posted by FCX5

Let's talk when Lucid Motors releases something….

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by dogears

This year maybe? https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/lu...fashion-square

I would much rather have a Lucid than a Tesla. That Tesla fit and finish…. although I hear Plaid is slightly better. But that Yoke…. The inside is just not attractive. I am not an ICE snob, just the Tesla fit and finish and style is meh.

Lucid is opening a store near me as well. Will be interesting. I like their styling better.

[irablumberg]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Lucid is opening a store near me as well. Will be interesting. I like their styling better.

Competition is great, but given the performance / issues of every BEV from every manufacturer, I'm in no hurry to be an early adopter of a newly produced BEV (otherwise known as being a beta tester (if you are lucky and an alpha tester otherwise)). ;-)

I waited until 2019 to get a Tesla Model 3 Performance and by that time the platform was more or less stable and reliable. Even then the basic self-driving features changed and often introduced new bugs at least every month for 6+ months.

[PaLaKaT]

Well i actually raced a Tesla Plaid at the drag strip. Tesla was insanely quicker.
I ran 10.7 while tesla ran 9.6. Ill post the slip later.

[irablumberg]

Originally Posted by DB_BMW

Well i actually raced a Tesla Plaid at the drag strip. Tesla was insanely quicker.
I ran 10.7 while tesla ran 9.6. Ill post the slip later.

Just curious how your track (and the others in various Youtube videos) are allowing Plaids to run. I thought NHRA rules required gobs of safety gear for anything running under 10.0 or with trap speed over 150, including a parachute. I have certainly never seen a Plaid with a chute (or even a roll cage ;-).

[TTHURACAN]

Originally Posted by Superjackson

You'd need to do 9 second flat in quarter mile to be comparable.. I guess you could if you get hybrid turbos and built motor lol. I think for gas cars to beat a plaid in acceleration for cheap, you could go with a TTRS, they can smoke the plaid with just a turbo upgrade.

You need a built motor 40psi boost and accompanying mods plus minimum e85 and hoosiers all around to beat the plaid....

[brad65ford]

Originally Posted by TTHURACAN

You need a built motor 40psi boost and accompanying mods plus minimum e85 and hoosiers all around to beat the plaid....

This , built motor, trans/clutches, fuel system etc. internet made it look easy. Ask the guys that have built one they’ll tell ya. The plaid is impressive for what it is. People shouldn’t say. Oh if you get this car and build it”. Just sounds silly.

Edit: For those that may want to understand what takes with an rs3 or ttrs since the internet makes it seem they all run 9 or 8's with a bolt on and a tune.

Custom DS1 tuned TTRS, gutted, light small weights, light weight drag brakes etc... with a hybrid turbo upgraded with supporting mods etc... Mind you this is pushing the motor hard on ethanol on stock block. Some have popped their motors if they push harder. There is a good bit of money in that TTRS and it still can't take the Plaid, you have to build one and than is a good bit more of money for sure. What fun is a stripped car anyway just to achieve what a plaid does stock lol.

[PaLaKaT]

Originally Posted by irablumberg

Just curious how your track (and the others in various Youtube videos) are allowing Plaids to run. I thought NHRA rules required gobs of safety gear for anything running under 10.0 or with trap speed over 150, including a parachute. I have certainly never seen a Plaid with a chute (or even a roll cage ;-).

That is actually interesting. This went down in Atco NJ. Friend of mine ran his convertible mustang 5.0 on the strip and he was threatened to be kicked out when he ran 13s.

[dogears]

I live 15 minutes from Atco. Raced there a lot years ago….. when I was there plenty of 10 and 11 second cars were running. Something off about your friends story.

Originally Posted by DB_BMW

That is actually interesting. This went down in Atco NJ. Friend of mine ran his convertible mustang 5.0 on the strip and he was threatened to be kicked out when he ran 13s.