[momos750]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

Apologies in advance so donÂ’t take this the wrong way. On your resonator delete the piping used were crush bends. This is worse than OEM and will restrict flow especially that close to the DP exits.

+1 will definitely restrict flow.

[MTHX]

Originally Posted by momos750

+1 will definitely restrict flow.

so, the "best practice" is to cut the resonator and going straight?

it's not the first time read about an x-pipe setup, that kind of setup as some advantage? only sound?

other question, about downpipe, that's give normally 2-5 % more hp?

So, just an intake and a downpipe can give between 25-35 whp or hp with no other electronic tune?

some advantage over a chargepipe too?

[elitex]

I think HFC with Msport resonators will be the perfect setup unless you go full blown aftermarket.

[Spara]

Originally Posted by MTHX

so, the "best practice" is to cut the resonator and going straight?

it's not the first time read about an x-pipe setup, that kind of setup as some advantage? only sound?

other question, about downpipe, that's give normally 2-5 % more hp?

So, just an intake and a downpipe can give between 25-35 whp or hp with no other electronic tune?

some advantage over a chargepipe too?

I don't believe you can actually get 25 WHP with just an intake and downpipe.

[MTHX]

Originally Posted by momos750

+1 will definitely restrict flow.

I just read some stuff on internet. I don't want to start debate, but x-pipe seem not a bad thing...

You may be wondering why so many aftermarket performance exhaust system manufacturers are offering dual exhaust systems connected by "H-pipe" or "X-pipe" sections. After all, aren't two separate pipes, or so-called "true duals", the best for performance? The answer is no, but to understand why we have to examine how a typical internal combustion engine works.

In short, H- and X-pipe exhaust sections benefit V6 and V8 engines because they connect separate pipes coming from the two different exhaust banks found on those engines. Inline engines where all the cylinders are in a row gain nothing, because they have only one exhaust bank. When it comes to bang for the buck, H- and X-pipe sections are so effective that automakers have used them on select high-performance models for decades. But most importantly, these sections can easily be added to an existing dual exhaust system without much, if any, modifications.

The consensus opinion among exhaust flow experts is that any V8 engine will benefit from an H-pipe or X-pipe section mounted on a dual exhaust system. Others feel X-pipes are better suited to free-revving overhead cam V6s and V8s, while H-pipes are a natural fit for high-torque big-block V8 engines that make their power lower on the rpms scale.

If you hold your hand behind a tailpipe, the exhaust flow feels like a continuous stream, but it's actually a series of pulses, each of which is created every time one cylinder's exhaust valve opens in the firing order. On a typical V8 engine, one cylinder on each bank fires within 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation of another cylinder on the same bank. The resulting exhaust pulses are very close together as they travel through the exhaust system and on some vehicles they create a popping noise.

H-Pipe Section
H-pipe sections were first installed to quiet this exhaust noise. When the two close firing cylinders are exhausting on one bank, there is nothing happening in the other bank, so connecting both pipes effectively enlarged the exhaust system, allowing these exhaust pulses to exit through both sides of the system. It was found that, with the addition of an H-pipe, exhaust noise could be reduced by as much as 2 decibels.

Adding an H-pipe section also increases power. Even when headers are installed, these close firing cylinders are competing for space in the exhaust pipe after the collector, which creates backpressure and reduces power. Connecting the exhaust pipes allows pressure to escape to the other side of the system, with a resulting gain in low-end and mid-range torque. However, the effectiveness of an H-pipe section decreases somewhat at higher rpm. The increased exhaust gas velocity at high rpm causes most of the exhaust to take the path of least resistance and continue down the exhaust pipe, rather than make the turn into the H-pipe.

When it comes to H-pipe sections, we've got the BBK H-Pipe and MBRP H-Pipe, both made from aluminized steel (see our description of this type of steel in a paragraph further below). The Kooks stainless steel H-Pipe is offered in street-legal and off-road-only configurations, and is designed to work with many late-model Mustangs. Likewise, PaceSetter’s Off-Road Pipe Kit is designed for non-street legal applications. Hyundai Genesis Coupe owners should check out the ARK Performance stainless steel Polished H-Pipe.

X-Pipe Section
The solution to some of the shortcomings of H-Pipe layouts is the X-pipe design. With an X-pipe section, the two sides of the exhaust system are merged rather than just connected, allowing the exhaust from each bank to easily flow into both exhaust pipes. The exhaust pressure on both banks is equalized and power is increased at all engine speeds.

As with the H-pipe, an X-pipe also affects the sound of the exhaust. Testing by one exhaust manufacturer indicated an X-pipe equipped system was several decibels quieter than an equivalent H-pipe system. And although sound quality is subjective, many have described the exhaust note from an X-pipe system as higher pitched and smoother than an H-pipe system

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cari...s.html%3famp=1

[Bönz]

This is well and good but doesn't apply at all the the S63Tu twin turbocharged engine. The "hot-V" set up has each turbocharger taking pulses from both banks. Spinning turbines also impact exhaust flow characteristics virtually eliminating the typical scavenging effects of exhaust plumbing.

Furthermore, the peak output of a turbocharged engine is directly related to peak boost. Unlike a NA engine, opening up the intake and exhaust plumbing won't do much to increase output without the requisite increase in boost. At the most, you might gain a very slight increase in low end torque and reduce lag (although there's not much in this engine) by allowing the turbines to get up to speed faster, but peak output remains the same.

On the other hand, if you want to increase boost significantly over stock, doing so will require better breathing or you could end up starving the compressor or stalling the turbine.

Opening up the exhaust to increase or change the sound is tricky business, as some have learned on this forum. Drone is nothing more the the system hitting its resonant frequency, but ironing this out is complicated. My suggestion would be to replace the exhaust with a well engineering aftermarket system that already has all the kinks worked out (pun intended).

[MTHX]

Originally Posted by Bönz

This is well and good but doesn't apply at all the the S63Tu twin turbocharged engine. The "hot-V" set up has each turbocharger taking pulses from both banks. Spinning turbines also impact exhaust flow characteristics virtually eliminating the typical scavenging effects of exhaust plumbing.

Furthermore, the peak output of a turbocharged engine is directly related to peak boost. Unlike a NA engine, opening up the intake and exhaust plumbing won't do much to increase output without the requisite increase in boost. At the most, you might gain a very slight increase in low end torque and reduce lag (although there's not much in this engine) by allowing the turbines to get up to speed faster, but peak output remains the same.

On the other hand, if you want to increase boost significantly over stock, doing so will require better breathing or you could end up starving the compressor or stalling the turbine.

Opening up the exhaust to increase or change the sound is tricky business, as some have learned on this forum. Drone is nothing more the the system hitting its resonant frequency, but ironing this out is complicated. My suggestion would be to replace the exhaust with a well engineering aftermarket system that already has all the kinks worked out (pun intended).

It is me or the actual resonator has an internal xpipe design?

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by MTHX

It is me or the actual resonator has an internal xpipe design?

It has an excellent internal X design with 3” ID pipes. No flow loss there. Just sound attenuation.

[Madvillain]

Originally Posted by baseCPM3

Based on the 60-130 of this M5 relative to that of the C6 Z06 and based on the video from the other thread of the E63 S destroying the M5, thereÂ’s no way in hell this is a 127-129 MPH trap car, more like 121-123 MPH and that WHP reading is probably coming from a very optimistically calibrated dyno.

good idea base the performance of every f90 m5 on one video of e63s just edging it out. theres another video of m5 doing same thing to the e63s just so youre aware. im not here to defend the new m5, i really dont care which car is faster but goddam some people are really shitting on this m5. ffs they only added awd and a sprinkle of extra power and torque what kind of performance figures were people expecting?

[MTHX]

Originally Posted by Madvillain

good idea base the performance of every f90 m5 on one video of e63s just edging it out. theres another video of m5 doing same thing to the e63s just so youre aware. im not here to defend the new m5, i really dont care which car is faster but goddam some people are really shitting on this m5. ffs they only added awd and a sprinkle of extra power and torque what kind of performance figures were people expecting?

Many people come to the M5 forum, but do not even intend to have one. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, that's for sure, but I think that we should not worry about this kind of intervention ... If it came mainly from a person who has one, I would give it some importance, but in this case, not at all!

[Madvillain]

Originally Posted by MTHX

Many people come to the M5 forum, but do not even intend to have one. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, that's for sure, but I think that we should not worry about this kind of intervention ... If it came mainly from a person who has one, I would give it some importance, but in this case, not at all!

the last gen cars beat the c6 z06 i dont see why hed even compare or bash lol he just looks like a negative loser. gtboard has a video of the c7 z06 being pre much identical to the new e63s from a roll. i think people dont understand how fast these cars are getting.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by Madvillain

the last gen cars beat the c6 z06 i dont see why hed even compare or bash lol he just looks like a negative loser. gtboard has a video of the c7 z06 being pre much identical to the new e63s from a roll. i think people dont understand how fast these cars are getting.

The new ZO6 isn't what it should be so no surprise there.

[BadBoostedBMWM3]

Very nice!!


Excuse my ignorance, so are the new m5 AWD. If so, can the power bias be changed? Say 50/50 or 0/100?

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Graves

The new ZO6 isn't what it should be so no surprise there.

But it is a surprise there. The C7 Z06 is a supercar - not a luxury four door GT. It is also quicker and faster than the C6 Z06 and quicker but slower than the C6 ZR1.

The F90 M5 is also quicker and faster (in the 1/4 mile before people who don't understand racing come on here again) - than any stock R35 GTR. Yes the R35 is 11 years old - but is has evolved and again the fact it shouldn't even be discussed with these other cars is the point being made.

Heck, the new GT40 is slower to 60 MPH and as quick in the 1/4.

It's an amazing time to be a car enthusiast. Period.

[raysspl]

No joke that thing is fast

[marcvtec]

good results,
so the turbos on the F90 are slightly different,(larger) then the F10.
And we know that the block can hold a decent amount of power.
Hopefully with FBO + Tune can add another 100 to 150 HP/TQ.
I would be happy !
I did turn 40, so time to sell the E92. yes yes.

[Graves]

Originally Posted by vtknight

But it is a surprise there. The C7 Z06 is a supercar - not a luxury four door GT. It is also quicker and faster than the C6 Z06 and quicker but slower than the C6 ZR1.

The F90 M5 is also quicker and faster (in the 1/4 mile before people who don't understand racing come on here again) - than any stock R35 GTR. Yes the R35 is 11 years old - but is has evolved and again the fact it shouldn't even be discussed with these other cars is the point being made.

Heck, the new GT40 is slower to 60 MPH and as quick in the 1/4.

It's an amazing time to be a car enthusiast. Period.

It might be a super car, but if the C6 ZO6 had 650/650 it would've been a rocket ship. I am just not impressed with the C7 ZO6 and I love vettes. I have a 2011 ZR1. But you are correct, still a great car that performs and the M5 is no joke as well.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Graves

It might be a super car, but if the C6 ZO6 had 650/650 it would've been a rocket ship. I am just not impressed with the C7 ZO6 and I love vettes. I have a 2011 ZR1. But you are correct, still a great car that performs and the M5 is no joke as well.

Love the C6 ZR1 - looked into getting one. I am the first to acknowledge that the C7 Z06 has many faults even though I own one lol. I blog about it all the time in fact. That said - it is in its own category - and can be relatively quick. But I digress - why the problems with the C7Z?

The C6 is a much more aerodynamic car (as the C5 is much more slippery than the C6) - it's Cd is much less than the C7 - which even without its horrid aero making it much worse - the shape of the C7 itself still has a poor Cd. It was meant to create downforce. In general it is poor at high speed anything.

This is why it is even - stock - with the C6 ZR1 to about 3rd and the ZR1 starts to leave it hard in fourth once the speeds get over 120 MPH. C6ZR1 is also faster in the 1/4 on average as much as C7Z fanboys will cry it isn't. 125 MPH is about average for the C7Z - while the ZR1 is about 128 MPH on average (with 130-131 possible). Removing the horrid fixed C7Z aero adds about 1-2 MPH on average as an example (depending on the power level of the car).

The other main issue is the uber tiny roots-type 1.74L "blower". Add a poor engine bay design for circulation - and you have timing retardation even during a 1/4 mile pull (personally experienced that). On a hot day - people have reported losing power just driving around after some WOT.

Finally - direct injection - which is pure evil for modding. DI is about when to spray fuel versus how much - and that fuel has to be there when it needs it. There is a reason why the new ZR1 has both PI and DI stock. Port injection cars are just so much easier to mod.

So - having tried to do a FBO build - which was over-spinning an already tiny, roots, SC - and creating even more heat - I gave in and replaced the SC with an F1A PC. Car works well now - but what a road to get there.

Great car otherwise.

[onfireX5]

I owned a TT 2001 C5 ZO6, a C6 Grand Sport and just sold my 2017 C7 ZO6. The C5 was extremely nimble and had a decent belt line. So so comfort. The C6 was more comfortable. The C7 was much more refined for a Corvette. Took it to Bowling Green for the Plant/Museum tour. Would not have made that trip in the C5. The belt line in the C7 is horrible. Wife would not drive it. She loved the C5. Can’t really compare the C7 Zo6 to the M5. M5 is crazy refined and solid. C7 has some road noise, creaks, etc. but has insane great handling. Stock to stock the M5 is quicker from a dig on the street due to AWD. At the track, I’ll predict the M5 will slightly win in the 1/4. I will know in a couple of months. C8 needs to be AWD and a TT V8 or it will be left behind.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

I owned a TT 2001 C5 ZO6, a C6 Grand Sport and just sold my 2017 C7 ZO6. The C5 was extremely nimble and had a decent belt line. So so comfort. The C6 was more comfortable. The C7 was much more refined for a Corvette. Took it to Bowling Green for the Plant/Museum tour. Would not have made that trip in the C5. The belt line in the C7 is horrible. Wife would not drive it. She loved the C5. Can’t really compare the C7 Zo6 to the M5. M5 is crazy refined and solid. C7 has some road noise, creaks, etc. but has insane great handling. Stock to stock the M5 is quicker from a dig on the street due to AWD. At the track, I’ll predict the M5 will slightly win in the 1/4. I will know in a couple of months. C8 needs to be AWD and a TT V8 or it will be left behind.

100% agreed. I really like my C7Z - especially after working to get it the way I wanted lol.

My point is just that - the fact anyone mentions these cars while discussing the F90 M5 and the fact the F90 is as quick and faster in the 1/4 - is a crazy thing as they are NOT direct competitors.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

100% agreed. I really like my C7Z - especially after working to get it the way I wanted lol.

My point is just that - the fact anyone mentions these cars while discussing the F90 M5 and the fact the F90 is as quick and faster in the 1/4 - is a crazy thing as they are NOT direct competitors.

Dead on.

C7 and M5 are two totally different design platforms. Both are top tier in their platform. C7 Zo6 handling is off the chart. What does yours run with the centrifugal? Mine pure stock on stock radials ran 11.4 at 125mph fighting for traction at 3000ft DA.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Dead on.

C7 and M5 are two totally different design platforms. Both are top tier in their platform. C7 Zo6 handling is off the chart. What does yours run with the centrifugal? Mine pure stock on stock radials ran 11.4 at 125mph fighting for traction at 3000ft DA.

It's a manual and with the centri launching is tricky. 10.0 at 141 (pre-existing tune) - new tune 145+ MPH - new RPS triple carbon clutch in and I hope to be safely in the 9's. Set a standing 1/2 mile record for a manual F1A car of 178 MPH. I did not intend this car to be a race car - just an all rounder. And I'm really happy with the power level and overall driving characteristics of the car now (drives like stock and power comes on in mid to top end so traction is actually pretty good with Nitto 555R's). It's like a turbo car.

Makes about 860-870 whp.

By the way - I'm impressed you squeezed an 11.4 both at 3000 ft but also with the stock PS2 tires - which are terrible for drags.