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      05-17-2017, 05:51 AM   #67
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nice read. Def can't wait for this monster.
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      05-17-2017, 06:21 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Extract from the Car and Driver article:

It’s a week after the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon debuted, and it is still blowing up the internet. Its specs have already been tattooed on the faces of more than a few of Mopar’s faithful. But Dirk Hacker, vice president of engineering at BMW’s M division, hasn’t heard word one about America’s newest and most powerful muscle car.

“How much power?” he asks.

“840 horsepower.”

He nods. “Does it have a manual transmission?”

“Automatic only,” we say.

“All-wheel drive?”

“Nope, rear-wheel drive.”

He takes another sip from his drink. “Maybe my son has heard of it,” he says with more than a hint of derision. “He likes American performance cars.”


Frankly, this is a bit insulting and arrogant from a company official that has not made a supercar since the original M1. At least the Americans are not afraid to make exciting cars such as the Demon, but also proper supercars like the new ford GT, Corvette Z06 and others... Not to mention that company, FCA, owns the most prestigious brand of all, Ferrari.
I take it this way:

Picture yourself in his shoes. You have invited (and paid for) Journalists from around the world to come to a press event of your new car. You know the drill. Expensive swag and food, nice hotels, etc. And then someone asks you what you think about a drag car.

I'd be annoyed too.
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      05-17-2017, 06:39 AM   #69
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My mopar loving friends make me have the same response. It's always "Hellcat this, and Hellcat that, and what's the 1/4 mile time." My response is to just shrug.
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      05-17-2017, 07:16 AM   #70
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Interesting, back to rubber mounted rear subframe
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      05-17-2017, 07:52 AM   #71
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We've all known the manual transmission was on it's way out, so it's no surprise it's not an option. I love a manual as much as the next guy (My M4 is a manual), but I understand why it doesn't fit for this car. The market is just too small.

That said, why the hell did they go with a traditional automatic over the DCT? The ZF HP8 transmission is a work of art, but is it really suitable for an M car?
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      05-17-2017, 08:22 AM   #72
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As always:

First Drive - "this car is great!"

Later reviews - "steering is too numb, car is too heavy, why don't you just make the E39 again despite the fact that 20 years have gone by and consumer tastes and priorities have changed?"
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      05-17-2017, 08:29 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
I take it this way:

Picture yourself in his shoes. You have invited (and paid for) Journalists from around the world to come to a press event of your new car. You know the drill. Expensive swag and food, nice hotels, etc. And then someone asks you what you think about a drag car.

I'd be annoyed too.
I bet he would be even more annoyed if somebody mentioned the Panamera Turbo...
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      05-17-2017, 08:53 AM   #74
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Seriously, why can't BMW make an engine sound good anymore?

1. C63 sounds better than an M4
2. C43 sounds better than an M4 and a 440i
3. E63 sounds better than an M5 / M6
4. S63 sounds better than a M760

Frustrating...
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      05-17-2017, 08:59 AM   #75
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Cannot agree more! I am a BMW person but the sound of an M5 (this or F10) is so bad for me that I would actually buy an RS6 or E63 instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moff View Post
Seriously, why can't BMW make an engine sound good anymore?

1. C63 sounds better than an M4
2. C43 sounds better than an M4 and a 440i
3. E63 sounds better than an M5 / M6
4. S63 sounds better than a M760

Frustrating...
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      05-17-2017, 09:06 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
I am by no means a M purist, but frankly I just don't get this car.

If they wanted to compete with Porsche and Mercedes for sport line awd executive cars why not just offer a choice of xdrive or RWD. This certainly had to be less expensive than the engineering effort required to create this drive train. Plus it would probably still allow for a DCT and or Manual.

It looks like its the end of the road for RWD beefed up German executive saloons.
Clarkson pretty much summed it up a few years ago when he said that "the Germans are all trying so hard to lure the same customer that they've built the same car."

Among the M5, E63, and RS6/7, I'd reckon one's decision will simply come down to brand loyalty. All are heavy, numb, and fast.
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      05-17-2017, 09:28 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
One of these days, the 2 series will go on a diet.
and get four doors...then I'll have a proper replacement for my E36.
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      05-17-2017, 09:35 AM   #78
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very exciting to say the least!! These are going to be monsters
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      05-17-2017, 10:02 AM   #79
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wow M xDrive, I love it! Should satisfy those complaining about lack of 2WD and those who crave some 4WD action. Good job BMW!
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      05-17-2017, 10:11 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecom32 View Post
We've all known the manual transmission was on it's way out, so it's no surprise it's not an option. I love a manual as much as the next guy (My M4 is a manual), but I understand why it doesn't fit for this car. The market is just too small.

That said, why the hell did they go with a traditional automatic over the DCT? The ZF HP8 transmission is a work of art, but is it really suitable for an M car?
Their current DCT can't handle the power. Why spend the money developing a new one when you can get just as good performance and feel (according to the reviews) with the zf?

Also have to think about the market. US is the biggest m car market and here when people see automatic they assume the feeling of a regular torque converter. Lots of complaints here with the mass market dct cars from people who didn't except the "manual" feel around town (abruptness, shuttering, hard shifts, etc...). The m5 is not marketed to the typical track guy m enthusiast.
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      05-17-2017, 11:01 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
450hp M4 has 285's in the rear.
600hp M5 has 285's in the rear, too.

It's gonna be a hot mess in RWD mode.
I am wondering about this too - why not a wider tire, especially in the rear?

My ZCP M3 could use a wider tire for sure - I am not sure that software can cure all ills....
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      05-17-2017, 11:49 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
- Weight: about 4200 lbs or 1800kg. AWD system adds about 140 lbs to the car or 63.5kg.
Hmm...which is it? 4200lbs isn't 1800kg.

4200lbs = 1905kg

1800kg = 3968lbs
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      05-17-2017, 12:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
- Weight: about 4200 lbs or 1800kg. AWD system adds about 140 lbs to the car or 63.5kg.
Hmm...which is it? 4200lbs isn't 1800kg.

4200lbs = 1905kg

1800kg = 3968lbs
All articles qoute 1800
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      05-17-2017, 12:38 PM   #84
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The modern M-cars sound very annoying and this car is not an exception
I know that some people don't care about it, but to me it is the only reason why I don't buy them.
P.s. I've sold my m6, because of that stupid sound...
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      05-17-2017, 01:57 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
Hmm...which is it? 4200lbs isn't 1800kg.

4200lbs = 1905kg

1800kg = 3968lbs
On bmw.de the weight listed for the M6 Coupe is only 10 kg different from when the M6 Coupe was listed on the USA website, similar story with the Convertible.

However the M550i shows as a full 100kg heavier on the USA website than on the German website. The 530i is similar. Maybe with the G30 generation they have started weighing the cars differently between the countries? So 1800kg is correct in Europe and 4200lbs is correct in the USA?

M550i
USA: 4372lbs, 1984kg
DE: 4155lbs, 1885kg

M6 Coupe
USA: 4250lbs, 1928kg
DE: 4243lbs, 1925kg

M6 Vert:
USA: 4515lbs, 2048kg
DE: 4529lbs, 2055kg

G30 530i
USA: 3746lbs, 1700kg
DE: 3559lbs, 1615kg
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      05-17-2017, 02:13 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Extract from the Car and Driver article:

It’s a week after the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon debuted, and it is still blowing up the internet. Its specs have already been tattooed on the faces of more than a few of Mopar’s faithful. But Dirk Hacker, vice president of engineering at BMW’s M division, hasn’t heard word one about America’s newest and most powerful muscle car.

“How much power?” he asks.

“840 horsepower.”

He nods. “Does it have a manual transmission?”

“Automatic only,” we say.

“All-wheel drive?”

“Nope, rear-wheel drive.”

He takes another sip from his drink. “Maybe my son has heard of it,” he says with more than a hint of derision. “He likes American performance cars.”


Frankly, this is a bit insulting and arrogant from a company official that has not made a supercar since the original M1. At least the Americans are not afraid to make exciting cars such as the Demon, but also proper supercars like the new ford GT, Corvette Z06 and others... Not to mention that company, FCA, owns the most prestigious brand of all, Ferrari.
I believe that FCA and Ferrari have officially split. Ferrari is a stand-alone company now.

I do agree, he's arrogant in a typical BMW-douchebaggary fashion...
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      05-17-2017, 02:35 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACEM4TE View Post
All articles qoute 1800
Now the scans of EVO article has 1850kg at the bottom. Who knows at this point? Need to see a production car on some scales.
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      05-17-2017, 03:58 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
On bmw.de the weight listed for the M6 Coupe is only 10 kg different from when the M6 Coupe was listed on the USA website, similar story with the Convertible.

However the M550i shows as a full 100kg heavier on the USA website than on the German website. The 530i is similar. Maybe with the G30 generation they have started weighing the cars differently between the countries? So 1800kg is correct in Europe and 4200lbs is correct in the USA?

M550i
USA: 4372lbs, 1984kg
DE: 4155lbs, 1885kg

M6 Coupe
USA: 4250lbs, 1928kg
DE: 4243lbs, 1925kg

M6 Vert:
USA: 4515lbs, 2048kg
DE: 4529lbs, 2055kg

G30 530i
USA: 3746lbs, 1700kg
DE: 3559lbs, 1615kg
Different base specs maybe like sun roof springs to mind on some of the slightly larger differences?

Maybe differing government safety standards cause other changes to the cars?
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