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      11-18-2021, 09:18 PM   #1
Demon Barber
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Dinan Piggy now out?

Anyone seen or used this?

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...arts/D440-0146
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      11-18-2021, 09:33 PM   #2
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Looks like racechip with a different logo
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      11-18-2021, 09:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euro* View Post
Looks like racechip with a different logo
Good catch. That is 100% a relabeled racechip.
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      11-19-2021, 06:21 AM   #4
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Carbahn has the same thing on their website now too.
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      11-19-2021, 07:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euro* View Post
Looks like racechip with a different logo
But the caveat here is with No dinan warranty so no reason for you to choose it over racechip or jb4 at least for me
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      11-25-2021, 06:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euro* View Post
Looks like racechip with a different logo
Yeap, heard about it from my insiders 2 years ago.

Even the installation instruction is almost an exact copy as RaceChip.
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      11-25-2021, 11:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Barber View Post
looks good and priced well.

It uses the same connections as the race chip, but so do most piggybacks (except the JB4).

The enclosure looks similar as well but I'm not sure it's that important since this is mostly software. The boost target and map matters a lot more than the plastic box
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      11-25-2021, 03:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trev230 View Post
Carbahn has the same thing on their website now too.
Really? Steve Dinan is not a fan of Piggyback tuning so it would surprise me that CarBahn is selling one.

Link?
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      11-25-2021, 03:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobRed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trev230 View Post
Carbahn has the same thing on their website now too.
Really? Steve Dinan is not a fan of Piggyback tuning so it would surprise me that CarBahn is selling one.

Link?
Steve Dinan was not a fan of piggy backs when he was selling tunes. I suspect he will have a podcast praising the virtues of the piggy back.
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      11-26-2021, 01:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobRed View Post
Really? Steve Dinan is not a fan of Piggyback tuning so it would surprise me that CarBahn is selling one.

Link?
Check out 2021 M5/M8 section on the Carbahn website, it is all piggyback tunes for 2021's
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      11-29-2021, 12:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
looks good and priced well.

It uses the same connections as the race chip, but so do most piggybacks (except the JB4).

The enclosure looks similar as well but I'm not sure it's that important since this is mostly software. The boost target and map matters a lot more than the plastic box
This.

I don't think we made any great effort in hiding where the hardware is coming from as its pretty apparent. So yes, common hardware but the mapping is indeed a bit different.

Its another option in the marketplace is all. I thought we did a pretty good job at pricing it so it fit into the product landscape and offered some compelling thought for those looking for an inline tuner though.

As far as the Dinan warranty goes -- decision has been made a while back that going forward only the Dinan+ Flashes will be carrying the factory matching warranty on the engine/ECU tuning front. There will be no new piggybacks that carry the a factory matching warranty. Will just be a product only warranty on the device itself.
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      11-30-2021, 10:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
This.

I don't think we made any great effort in hiding where the hardware is coming from as its pretty apparent. So yes, common hardware but the mapping is indeed a bit different.

Its another option in the marketplace is all. I thought we did a pretty good job at pricing it so it fit into the product landscape and offered some compelling thought for those looking for an inline tuner though.

As far as the Dinan warranty goes -- decision has been made a while back that going forward only the Dinan+ Flashes will be carrying the factory matching warranty on the engine/ECU tuning front. There will be no new piggybacks that carry the a factory matching warranty. Will just be a product only warranty on the device itself.
I ordered mine directly through DINAN, and am super pumped for it to show up tomorrow.

To follow up on your above comments, and obviously if you can’t say I understand based on whatever agreement you have with another company — that being said, is there anything you can share in regards to how this differs from the “other” product?

Are the tuning maps completely original and tested/developed in house at Dinan?

Or is this essentially the same maps? Same maps with “tweaks”?

While I am certainly aware that I am going into this without the same protection that the DINAN+ flashes provide in regards to warranty — there is a part of me that wonders why this difference exists.

I am putting my faith and trust in the reputation that your company has maintained for decades, and I’d assume that the decision to put your name on something would indicate that this is a product that you all feel confident in — but I can’t help think that there must be some reason why the same warranty is not being extended.

Thanks,
Matt
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      11-30-2021, 02:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrlandoVol View Post
I ordered mine directly through DINAN, and am super pumped for it to show up tomorrow.

To follow up on your above comments, and obviously if you can’t say I understand based on whatever agreement you have with another company — that being said, is there anything you can share in regards to how this differs from the “other” product?

Are the tuning maps completely original and tested/developed in house at Dinan?

Or is this essentially the same maps? Same maps with “tweaks”?

While I am certainly aware that I am going into this without the same protection that the DINAN+ flashes provide in regards to warranty — there is a part of me that wonders why this difference exists.

I am putting my faith and trust in the reputation that your company has maintained for decades, and I’d assume that the decision to put your name on something would indicate that this is a product that you all feel confident in — but I can’t help think that there must be some reason why the same warranty is not being extended.

Thanks,
Matt
"Tweaked" is probably the best descripter as its still manipulating the same 2 sensors. Only so many things you can do after all with limited points of manipulation. Tune has been adjusted to our specifications, tested and validated in house however to answer your question. Would not be able to go into specifics as far as the direct differences but lets just say the mapping has been modified to meet the demands in reliability and safety a Dinan customer has been groomed to expect.

Have full conidence in DINANTRONICS X but for warranty there is a great deal of difference between a flash and a piggyback in terms of control which in turn limits how much variance can occur before problems/issues may occur. With a piggyback you are playing within the factory given tolerances. On the surface this is great and follows in line with "factory safeguards remain intact" but the big issue is not all cars are created equal and 1 car may be safely nestled in the middle of an acceptable tolerance window and another may be within the tolerance window but at an extreme edge of it. What happens in the case of the latter is anything added to the system will cause a CEL/code. At that juncture its a warranty claim to be paid upon. Nothing is necesarily wrong with the tune/piggyback its just the car is more sensitive is all but it still causes an issue that needs to be rectified. Sure, you can program the devices to be less aggressive and therefore more acceptable to more factors of that tolerance window but then the gains suffer and you wouldnt sell any to begin with. So-- its a bit of a game to figure out where that sweet spot is. On the other hand with a flash tune those tolerance windows can be adjusted or the value being manipulated be brought in line to begin with (more control) so the tolerance window nearly becomes an irrelevent factor. You just need to know the limits of the hardware itself and adjust accordingly. This results in far less frivolous claims and those that do occur can be more easily rectifed given the full ability to tweak as needed rather then just manipulating a few sensors.

Then theres the cost itself --- Having a factory matching warranty would also make the device much more expensive then the current listing (at least 4x) which makes the product a completely different animal. And to be honest we wouldnt to keep the piggyback stuff going forward more in line with being an alternative entry level option on par with the non-warranty flash tune (when released).
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      12-01-2021, 09:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero05 View Post
There are a lot of piggyback tuning companies out there and the "hardware" used for these is probably similar or the same when many of the same variables are manipulated- seems logical from a cost perspective to use suppliers that specialize in this stuff. Beyond that however is software and how that is influences from tuning company to tuning company and their "philosophy" and how that reacts in the end to the tuning itself. At the end of the day "hardware" is more "universal", Software "tuning" is company specific .
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      12-02-2021, 10:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
"Tweaked" is probably the best descripter as its still manipulating the same 2 sensors. Only so many things you can do after all with limited points of manipulation. Tune has been adjusted to our specifications, tested and validated in house however to answer your question. Would not be able to go into specifics as far as the direct differences but lets just say the mapping has been modified to meet the demands in reliability and safety a Dinan customer has been groomed to expect.

Have full conidence in DINANTRONICS X but for warranty there is a great deal of difference between a flash and a piggyback in terms of control which in turn limits how much variance can occur before problems/issues may occur. With a piggyback you are playing within the factory given tolerances. On the surface this is great and follows in line with "factory safeguards remain intact" but the big issue is not all cars are created equal and 1 car may be safely nestled in the middle of an acceptable tolerance window and another may be within the tolerance window but at an extreme edge of it. What happens in the case of the latter is anything added to the system will cause a CEL/code. At that juncture its a warranty claim to be paid upon. Nothing is necesarily wrong with the tune/piggyback its just the car is more sensitive is all but it still causes an issue that needs to be rectified. Sure, you can program the devices to be less aggressive and therefore more acceptable to more factors of that tolerance window but then the gains suffer and you wouldnt sell any to begin with. So-- its a bit of a game to figure out where that sweet spot is. On the other hand with a flash tune those tolerance windows can be adjusted or the value being manipulated be brought in line to begin with (more control) so the tolerance window nearly becomes an irrelevent factor. You just need to know the limits of the hardware itself and adjust accordingly. This results in far less frivolous claims and those that do occur can be more easily rectifed given the full ability to tweak as needed rather then just manipulating a few sensors.

Then theres the cost itself --- Having a factory matching warranty would also make the device much more expensive then the current listing (at least 4x) which makes the product a completely different animal. And to be honest we wouldnt to keep the piggyback stuff going forward more in line with being an alternative entry level option on par with the non-warranty flash tune (when released).
Thank you for the detailed response it is much appreciated… I installed it this morning in about 15 minutes, no issues/errors whatsoever… Took it for a test drive in the default map five and can definitely feel a difference.

The car feels almost exactly the same as it did before which is great, can definitely feel more power in the mid range and top end, yet driving around in traffic feels totally stock which is pretty impressive.

I have heard that it “takes some time” for the gains to be fully realized, and I assume that this due to the ECU “adjusting” to the new boost levels? Adjusting timing/fuel curves?
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      12-02-2021, 11:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrlandoVol View Post
Thank you for the detailed response it is much appreciated… I installed it this morning in about 15 minutes, no issues/errors whatsoever… Took it for a test drive in the default map five and can definitely feel a difference.

The car feels almost exactly the same as it did before which is great, can definitely feel more power in the mid range and top end, yet driving around in traffic feels totally stock which is pretty impressive.

I have heard that it “takes some time” for the gains to be fully realized, and I assume that this due to the ECU “adjusting” to the new boost levels? Adjusting timing/fuel curves?
Glad you are enjoying it thus far!

Adaptions do take a bit of driving time to iron out and "normalize" but the gains themselves will be 90% there, if not more, out of the box.
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      12-07-2021, 06:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
looks good and priced well.

It uses the same connections as the race chip, but so do most piggybacks (except the JB4).

The enclosure looks similar as well but I'm not sure it's that important since this is mostly software. The boost target and map matters a lot more than the plastic box
This.

I don't think we made any great effort in hiding where the hardware is coming from as its pretty apparent. So yes, common hardware but the mapping is indeed a bit different.

Its another option in the marketplace is all. I thought we did a pretty good job at pricing it so it fit into the product landscape and offered some compelling thought for those looking for an inline tuner though.

As far as the Dinan warranty goes -- decision has been made a while back that going forward only the Dinan+ Flashes will be carrying the factory matching warranty on the engine/ECU tuning front. There will be no new piggybacks that carry the a factory matching warranty. Will just be a product only warranty on the device itself.
Is the Dinan+ flash still being developed for the S63?
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      12-07-2021, 08:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Is the Dinan+ flash still being developed for the S63?
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is -- development has been done for awhile but its "complicated." Hoping to release some version of it in the not to distant future. =/
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      12-08-2021, 07:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Is the Dinan+ flash still being developed for the S63?
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is -- development has been done for awhile but its "complicated." Hoping to release some version of it in the not to distant future. =/
Works for me. Just glad it's still being developed. Thanks for the reply, and keep up the great work!

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      12-08-2021, 10:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Is the Dinan+ flash still being developed for the S63?
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is -- development has been done for awhile but its "complicated." Hoping to release some version of it in the not to distant future. =/
How about for the LCI .
I have Catless primary and secondary
Front mount cold air intake
Was looking at the Carbahn piggyback but for 3x the price of the Dinnan I struggle with justifying that price plus the warranty making it 6x your products price.
I have spoken with 2 tuners who have "cracked the code" or in other words send it the DME to Russia and back the. Load the map and put back in my car.
The turn around time is 3 weeks plus . I can't go without a car for that long in the winter.
This will not work for my vehicle correct ?
2021 M5
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      12-08-2021, 10:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTHSHOREM5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Is the Dinan+ flash still being developed for the S63?
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is -- development has been done for awhile but its "complicated." Hoping to release some version of it in the not to distant future. =/
How about for the LCI .
I have Catless primary and secondary
Front mount cold air intake
Was looking at the Carbahn piggyback but for 3x the price of the Dinnan I struggle with justifying that price plus the warranty making it 6x your products price.
I have spoken with 2 tuners who have "cracked the code" or in other words send it the DME to Russia and back the. Load the map and put back in my car.
The turn around time is 3 weeks plus . I can't go without a car for that long in the winter.
This will not work for my vehicle correct ?
2021 M5
Upcoming flash Would not apply to the 21+ MY's with the newest encryption. That said our tune wouldn't correct for catless DP's anyway so you would be living with the resulting CEL. Not something most want to deal with.
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      12-09-2021, 05:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTHSHOREM5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Is the Dinan+ flash still being developed for the S63?
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is -- development has been done for awhile but its "complicated." Hoping to release some version of it in the not to distant future. =/
How about for the LCI .
I have Catless primary and secondary
Front mount cold air intake
Was looking at the Carbahn piggyback but for 3x the price of the Dinnan I struggle with justifying that price plus the warranty making it 6x your products price.
I have spoken with 2 tuners who have "cracked the code" or in other words send it the DME to Russia and back the. Load the map and put back in my car.
The turn around time is 3 weeks plus . I can't go without a car for that long in the winter.
This will not work for my vehicle correct ?
2021 M5
Upcoming flash Would not apply to the 21+ MY's with the newest encryption. That said our tune wouldn't correct for catless DP's anyway so you would be living with the resulting CEL. Not something most want to deal with.
I'm dealing with that right now either way tune or not. I use 59 dollar Foxwell ObD 2 diagnostics tool I clear the code and until the computer runs it's cycle I'm CEL "free" . Plus it's right next to the traction light and that's always lighten up as well.

So no go on the 21' ? Any time in the future ?
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