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      04-04-2018, 02:28 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bönz View Post
Not sure really what the drivetrain loss would be with the ZF and AWD, but I would agree somewhere between 12% and 20%.

But this is weird: I ran this online calculator at 625whp and it came out to exactly the C&D ET, based on 14% loss (fixed in the calculator). The trap speed is low, but I have no idea what other factors are being used in this calculator, other than the drivetrain loss. Perhaps it "assumes" more wheel spin (RWD) based on the 60ft time.
You’ll have to add driver weight.
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      04-04-2018, 02:43 PM   #46
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Without having seen Atlantis in real life, to me the Snapper Rocks Blue looks more like Atlantis than Long Beach Blue, right?
That's a tough one as everyone interprets color a bit differently. Snapper Rocks looks the most green to me, Atlantis a bit less so, and Long Beach the most blue.
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      04-04-2018, 02:48 PM   #47
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How are other owners only get mid to low 8sec 60-130mph? This thing should be in 7’s easily with that power.
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      04-04-2018, 02:50 PM   #48
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So with factory competition package, full exhaust, and tune this should make around 800 crank horsepower.
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      04-04-2018, 02:59 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
How are other owners only get mid to low 8sec 60-130mph? This thing should be in 7Â’s easily with that power.
Because it doesn't make that much power in reality, lol . Can make a dyno show anything you want . These dyno's are only useful for before and after mods on the same dyno same settings and looking at the nature of the cars power curve .
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      04-04-2018, 03:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
How are other owners only get mid to low 8sec 60-130mph? This thing should be in 7's easily with that power.
Because it's a high reading dyno.

Not to start another dyno discussion war, because that would end up costing billions of dollars and thousands of lives, but these dyno tests on dynojets are not accurate. I'm not saying Mustang dynos are accurate either but I think they are more in line with reality.

When you have people dyno'ing over 900whp on an F10 M5 with Stage 2 turbos on dynojets, it is, to put it "respectfully," impossible for these engines to make that kind of power without some serious work (i.e. what AllMotor2000 was doing to his car). Especially without supporting 60-130 times to back it up.

Others who have already measured the F90 M5 60-130 times can use that measurement to more accurately display how much a stock motor is making.
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      04-04-2018, 03:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bönz View Post
Not sure really what the drivetrain loss would be with the ZF and AWD, but I would agree somewhere between 12% and 20%.

But this is weird: I ran this online calculator at 625whp and it came out to exactly the C&D ET, based on 14% loss (fixed in the calculator). The trap speed is low, but I have no idea what other factors are being used in this calculator, other than the drivetrain loss. Perhaps it "assumes" more wheel spin (RWD) based on the 60ft time.
it's like you said - it's a calculation based on what someone thinks makes sense. That said - dead hook versus wheel spin can and does produce quicker ET and lower MPH trap speeds. 3-4 MPH? maybe not for a car in the high 120's. But still interesting.
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      04-04-2018, 03:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Because it doesn't make that much power in reality, lol . Can make a dyno show anything you want . These dyno's are only useful for before and after mods on the same dyno same settings and looking at the nature of the cars power curve .
While I agree - dyno's are tools - and I agree they can be set to state (almost) whatever you want - my point about trusting AMS and or AMS partners still stands. Most importantly - they are actually making it more difficult on themselves as they will be testing before their as not yet produced mods that will cost them time and money to create and after - so it would have been more beneficial for them to UNDER report the numbers - not inflate them - and look like heroes for their products.

That plus - this Shop produces very powerful cars on a regular basis and have the track proven experience of how to properly run a dyno.
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      04-04-2018, 03:20 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Because it's a high reading dyno.

Not to start another dyno discussion war, because that would end up costing billions of dollars and thousands of lives, but these dyno tests on dynojets are not accurate. I'm not saying Mustang dynos are accurate either but I think they are more in line with reality.

When you have people dyno'ing over 900whp on an F10 M5 with Stage 2 turbos on dynojets, it is, to put it "respectfully," impossible for these engines to make that kind of power without some serious work (i.e. what AllMotor2000 was doing to his car). Especially without supporting 60-130 times to back it up.

Others who have already measured the F90 M5 60-130 times can use that measurement to more accurately display how much a stock motor is making.
Again - I agree that dyno's are tools - but stating one type of dyno (Dynojet) is inaccurate versus another? No. It is all how they are configured (as per the other posters comments). Any dyno is only as accurate as how it is configured.

I agree trap speeds and 60-130 times are the true test.

That said - again - it makes zero sense for a Mods Shop to inflate the BEFORE dyno outcome when they are spending time and money to develop mods that will require a higher dyno number AFTER those mods are applied. Before you state - "they will simply show tune and exhaust bolt on builds at 900+ whp" - no, they will not as the performance won't back those claims up and they will lose hard fought reputation. And that said reputation is solid for producing the first AWD car in the 6's 1/4 mile. This isn't some small shop pushing unproven mods like others have.

That plus - math always wins. 4400+ lb car with 127-129 MPH trap speeds? That is actually about right for a 625 whp pull. My C7Z dyno'd 580 whp and ran a 125 MPH trap at 3500 lbs.
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      04-04-2018, 03:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
How are other owners only get mid to low 8sec 60-130mph? This thing should be in 7’s easily with that power.
I agree with you here. As I have posted here more than once - I though at least a high 7 second 60-130 with the 0-60, and 1/4 ET/Traps this car has produced.

My car isn't here for some time, but I will be personally testing this once I have it.
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      04-04-2018, 03:31 PM   #55
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We can argue Dynos forever, but one thing is certain: This beast is making more than 600HP at the crank.
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      04-04-2018, 03:36 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Because it doesn't make that much power in reality, lol . Can make a dyno show anything you want . These dyno's are only useful for before and after mods on the same dyno same settings and looking at the nature of the cars power curve .
While I agree - dyno's are tools - and I agree they can be set to state (almost) whatever you want - my point about trusting AMS and or AMS partners still stands. Most importantly - they are actually making it more difficult on themselves as they will be testing before their as not yet produced mods that will cost them time and money to create and after - so it would have been more beneficial for them to UNDER report the numbers - not inflate them - and look like heroes for their products.

That plus - this Shop produces very powerful cars on a regular basis and have the track proven experience of how to properly run a dyno.
Believe whatever you wish , but I'll put it this way . The cars performance in no way indicates a power to weight ratio of under 6.1 assuming it's making just 700 hp which is less than this dyno claims even . I have a 991.2 Turbo S that made 580 stock and now probably 595 with full exhaust stock tune . It has a power to weight of 6.1 and does 10.29@131mph real trap not GPS final speed that is 133mph, and 7.29 60-130 mph with no downslope neutral DA . That's a worlds apart from 10.9 @127 mph GPS and 8.5 60-130 . The M5 is not 130 hp underrated period , as a matter of fact I do not believe it's underrated at all , it just has an awesome AUC and now can utilize all of its power with AWD .
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      04-04-2018, 04:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Believe whatever you wish , but I'll put it this way . The cars performance in no way indicates a power to weight ratio of under 6.1 assuming it's making just 700 hp which is less than this dyno claims even . I have a 991.2 Turbo S that made 580 stock and now probably 595 with full exhaust stock tune . It has a power to weight of 6.1 and does 10.29@131mph real trap not GPS final speed that is 133mph, and 7.29 60-130 mph with no downslope neutral DA . That's a worlds apart from 10.9 @127 mph GPS and 8.5 60-130 . The M5 is not 130 hp underrated period , as a matter of fact I do not believe it's underrated at all , it just has an awesome AUC and now can utilize all of its power with AWD .
It's not about what I believe. It's about what I prove via math. Let's start with your 991.2 Turbo S - great car by the way. It is not 580 HP. and consequently 595 with full exhaust. Porsche is famous for undervaluing their their cars power. Other factors make this car work as well as it does - and better than a four door sedan.

In the end - it's math: power, weight, traction, Cd, and driver/transmission power delivery efficiency.

My GTR does 60-130 in 2.65 seconds and 100-150 in about the same. It traps 173-180 MPH in the 1/4 - real world - because it makes enough of the combination of the above to do that - in the real world (meaning the actual power, weight, traction, drag and trans efficiency it really makes - not how it is advertised).

If the F90 M5 truly traps 127-129 MPH - at 4400 lbs - 625 whp is a reasonable number to achieve that as - again - my C7Z was trapping 125ish at 3550 lbs with 580 whp.
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      04-04-2018, 04:34 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
It's not about what I believe. It's about what I prove via math. Let's start with your 991.2 Turbo S - great car by the way. It is not 580 HP. and consequently 595 with full exhaust. Porsche is famous for undervaluing their their cars power. Other factors make this car work as well as it does - and better than a four door sedan.

In the end - it's math: power, weight, traction, Cd, and driver/transmission power delivery efficiency.

My GTR does 60-130 in 2.65 seconds and 100-150 in about the same. It traps 173-180 MPH in the 1/4 - real world - because it makes enough of the combination of the above to do that - in the real world (meaning the actual power, weight, traction, drag and trans efficiency it really makes - not how it is advertised).

If the F90 M5 truly traps 127-129 MPH - at 4400 lbs - 625 whp is a reasonable number to achieve that as - again - my C7Z was trapping 125ish at 3550 lbs with 580 whp.
+1

Weight and trap speed at a sanctioned track rules when adjusted for DA.

60-130 means nothing to me because there are WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES. I understand it’s a net benchmark and respect that. But after watching a major BMW shop owner post up low 9’s on a stock F10......it lost me.......
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      04-04-2018, 04:35 PM   #59
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if someone wants to make a TON of money, they should design a set of grills for this car that has thinner lips. such a fucking eye sore and I think the black grills make it more noticeable.
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      04-04-2018, 08:10 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by uniqueMR View Post
625 whp & 608 lb/ft torque
Sorry guys,
in France we do have different measurement; can you tell me how much it does en HP and Nm exactly?

I checked on converter but I would like to be sure about what my future car is bringing on

thanks in advance
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      04-04-2018, 08:20 PM   #61
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608lb/ft = 824Nm

625HP = 616 Metric HP or 453watts.

Keep in mind this is at the tires, not the engine. The engine will be higher.
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      04-05-2018, 04:08 AM   #62
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Thats a strong one you have there :-) Will be interesting to see what other F90's make as more people dyno them and on different brands of dyno.
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      04-05-2018, 07:28 AM   #63
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Amazing
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      04-05-2018, 11:26 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Because it doesn't make that much power in reality, lol . Can make a dyno show anything you want . These dyno's are only useful for before and after mods on the same dyno same settings and looking at the nature of the cars power curve .
Yeah. 625whp is something like 770hp at crank, assuming 20% loss.
I just dont see how this could be real.
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      04-05-2018, 12:38 PM   #65
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Ummm looks like bmw went back to the e60 soft on the chassis this time around.. no more direct bolted rear subframe? Rubber bushing all over the rear subframe with no more stiffing plate?

Normal tunnel support like regular 5 series...
Front supports aswell similiar to the the normal 5 series chassis..

Sad to see the backwards progression on some of the chassis setup... but i guess this car is more towards the highway GT cruiser crowd , and bmw is accepting that..

Really makes you appreciate the F8X series and the incredible chassis it has and what bmw did to it..


Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Thank you IND for creating these metrics. I was more so interested in the curb weight figure. You guys have conducted the research and now things are now known for sure. Some automotive journalists have published that the F90 was exactly 33lbs lighter than the F10, we can see now that this was pretty much spot on.

Also, thanks to your research, it looks like my earlier research was spot on as well when I discovered the weight distribution. So now you've proved it's pretty much 55% front and 45% rear, which as I pointed out earlier is worse than the F10 M5, all thanks to that AWD system.

I also love that you guys at least posted some pictures with the standard 19" wheels, which I think look good. I doubt however that you guys will be keeping them on for long.

Also interesting to really see the design of the underside to include the stock exhaust system. I wonder what the center muffler thing does. Also you can see there is no more support brace that the F10 uses near the differential, that goes underneath the exhaust, but they've added some new crossbeams for support in the mid section it seems. Pretty interesting.

Dyno's aside, I appreciate your guys attention to detail in other metrics. Thank you.
Chassis vs chassis, the G30 chassis is 101lbs lighter compared to the F10 according to BMW tech manuals. So bmw already had a head start in weight with the new chassis.
BMW used alot more alum in the chassis to lower the weight in the G30.
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Last edited by 5soko; 04-05-2018 at 09:10 PM..
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      04-05-2018, 05:45 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
608lb/ft = 824Nm

625HP = 616 Metric HP or 453watts.

Keep in mind this is at the tires, not the engine. The engine will be higher.
Super! thanks to you for the info
Glad with that amount of power if the loss is about 15%
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