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      06-09-2021, 02:14 PM   #23
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The problem here is:

We're dealing with such a good starting point. The straight M5, optioned out really well for mine in 2018 was $110,000

To put that in perspective, I have a sedan with four doors, that I can take on vacation, that lays down the exact same times at VIR for me as my 2009 GT-R that was tuned. Not long ago, that was basically unimaginable.

Take the 2022 M5 CS back to 2009, and it's a world beater, and a steal at the price it is listed at.

The F90 M5 is just such a great car. Is the CS that much better?

I'll give you my vote. My order is in. I think my allocation will be produced in the later part of the year rather than July, but I'm hoping I get it earlier. I have a track weekend at VIR in November, and I'd love to ride this beast at WOT down the back straightaway. My 2018 makes 160mph. Only the almighty knows what this one will do....

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      06-09-2021, 02:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
You are saying Joe Achillies is a more real life POV compared to a written review by Jethro Bovington? Jethro's been writing car reviews for 20 years now and Joe Achillies is a limo driver with a youtube channel. Its like comparing Jake Paul to a real boxer.
I think a better comparison would be Jake Paul to Goku
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      06-09-2021, 02:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
Yeah the M2 CS i bought, i almost didn't want to sign for cause I thought to myself "its not going to be that much better than an OG M2 or an M2C."

In reality, driving it, it feels exponentially better. You have to sift through the noise of people making assumptions about the CS cars compared to people that have actually owned and driven them. In the US at least, that is very few since there were only several hundred M3/M4 CS, ~530 M2 CS, and now ~440 M5 CS (rumored). Jethro's opinion holds alot of weight for me, as he was quite high on the M2 CS and accurate in describing how it feels to me, and obviously he feels very strongly about the M5 CS.
607 M3CS were brought to the US. No clue how many M4CS came in as they spanned over multiple production years.
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      06-09-2021, 02:38 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post

I'll take Jethro's word for it, having owned the M2 CS, its tranformatively better than an M2C/OG M2. I just posted the conclusion, the rest of the review is even more gushing and probably warranted.
Do you track the M2 CS? For every day driving, I can't say the average driver will feel any measurable difference. Yes, I have a M2C and no, I do not hate on the M2CS. I can't justify the extra price when you can achieve equal or more performance with better suspension upgrades and tires available in the aftermarket. Resale value, straight out of the box/factory M2CS will be far greater than an upgraded M2C.

As far as M5 CS, seems like overkill for a big fat sedan. But it's an amazing car and I'm sure there's a market for it.
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      06-09-2021, 02:44 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Do you track the M2 CS? For every day driving, I can't say the average driver will feel any measurable difference. Yes, I have a M2C and no, I do not hate on the M2CS. I can't justify the extra price when you can achieve equal or more performance with better suspension upgrades and tires available in the aftermarket. Resale value, straight out of the box/factory M2CS will be far greater than an upgraded M2C.

As far as M5 CS, seems like overkill for a big fat sedan. But it's an amazing car and I'm sure there's a market for it.
The "big fat sedan" only weighs 100 pounds more than the new M3. So... not sure that argument holds much water.
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      06-09-2021, 02:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Do you track the M2 CS? For every day driving, I can't say the average driver will feel any measurable difference. Yes, I have a M2C and no, I do not hate on the M2CS. I can't justify the extra price when you can achieve equal or more performance with better suspension upgrades and tires available in the aftermarket. Resale value, straight out of the box/factory M2CS will be far greater than an upgraded M2C.

As far as M5 CS, seems like overkill for a big fat sedan. But it's an amazing car and I'm sure there's a market for it.
The "big fat sedan" only weighs 100 pounds more than the new M3. So... not sure that argument holds much water.
It does? Geez, the M3 is huge too. I have no clue what the G80 weighs. Its pretty amazing how much performance they can engineer from such heavier vehicles. And I'm still stuck in the F80 era, so yea…haha
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      06-09-2021, 03:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer View Post
This is not true, Joe Achilles has a BMW M3 and did criticize the sports bucket seats as not being comfortable and maybe not the best for a daily driver.
He also criticized the X3M's ride quality as well. We are all BMW fanboys here that's not an insult lol. Being a fanboy doesn't mean you can't be unbiased in your reviews and assessments.


Ps. Isn't it absurd to see folks questioning the valiidty of the M5 CS relative to their M5C. Have they not heard of the M2CS and the M2C.
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      06-09-2021, 03:48 PM   #30
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I need 3 seats in the back for the kiddos so I'll have to stick with my M5C
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      06-09-2021, 04:42 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionDH View Post
I need 3 seats in the back for the kiddos so I'll have to stick with my M5C
That's my situation too. One of my car requirements while nesting is that the whole fam has to fit in the fun car. If there was a way to get a CS with a regular bench I would have been on it.
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      06-09-2021, 04:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post

I'll take Jethro's word for it, having owned the M2 CS, its tranformatively better than an M2C/OG M2. I just posted the conclusion, the rest of the review is even more gushing and probably warranted.
Do you track the M2 CS? For every day driving, I can't say the average driver will feel any measurable difference. Yes, I have a M2C and no, I do not hate on the M2CS. I can't justify the extra price when you can achieve equal or more performance with better suspension upgrades and tires available in the aftermarket. Resale value, straight out of the box/factory M2CS will be far greater than an upgraded M2C.

As far as M5 CS, seems like overkill for a big fat sedan. But it's an amazing car and I'm sure there's a market for it.
I hear ur point on the "average driver" but I would say most people who own an M aren't "average" and they clearly care about driving dynamics so those people will def tell the diff. I'm in that camp.

Would someone who normally drives a Kia know? Prolly not.
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      06-09-2021, 04:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionDH View Post
I need 3 seats in the back for the kiddos so I'll have to stick with my M5C
Quote:
Originally Posted by m5 guy View Post
That's my situation too. One of my car requirements while nesting is that the whole fam has to fit in the fun car. If there was a way to get a CS with a regular bench I would have been on it.
I was in the same spot. Three kids between the ages of 12 and 6. My wife brought up the best point when she said, "How often have the 5 of us gone anywhere in your car?" Answer: Never
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      06-09-2021, 04:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionDH View Post
I need 3 seats in the back for the kiddos so I'll have to stick with my M5C
Quote:
Originally Posted by m5 guy View Post
That's my situation too. One of my car requirements while nesting is that the whole fam has to fit in the fun car. If there was a way to get a CS with a regular bench I would have been on it.
I was in the same spot. Three kids between the ages of 12 and 6. My wife brought up the best point when she said, "How often have the 5 of us gone anywhere in your car?" Answer: Never
That's awesome. 2-3 times a week the whole fam is in the M. Plus weekend drives around the island, etc. Makes the 4 seat configuration just not possible for me. I kind of want to ask for a bench to see how quick they laugh though.

I'm also the only driver so that probably plays a part in this lol…
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      06-09-2021, 05:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Do you track the M2 CS? For every day driving, I can't say the average driver will feel any measurable difference. Yes, I have a M2C and no, I do not hate on the M2CS. I can't justify the extra price when you can achieve equal or more performance with better suspension upgrades and tires available in the aftermarket. Resale value, straight out of the box/factory M2CS will be far greater than an upgraded M2C.

As far as M5 CS, seems like overkill for a big fat sedan. But it's an amazing car and I'm sure there's a market for it.
Having owned an OG M2 and driven an M2C, in my opinion (and i've said this on the CS boards) I view the M2 CS as excellent value at its MSRP compared to the other two at their MSRP. I did not really enjoy the driving dynamics of either of those cars but i really enjoy the compliant ride quality and the steering of the M2 CS. I don't believe its something easily replicated with aftermarket parts due to the adaptive dampers and the software tuning (as well as the added stiffness and weight balance from the roof and hood).

I don't criticize anyone who enjoys their OG M2 and M2C either, makes total sense as i owned one of them for 3 years. But no one should drive an M4C, M2C or M5C and assume they know how the corresponding CS model drives just based on deductive reasoning. And there are far too many people on these boards speaking authoritatively on that without having driven them (Even posters saying that reviews by auto journalists and owners can't possibly be realistic, also without having driven the cars themselves.)
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      06-09-2021, 06:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
In the US, it's a $10k USD upgrade on a regular M5. The question is more if it is worth it over an M3 I think.
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.

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      06-09-2021, 07:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.

That price difference would have made me think twice. In the US, we are lucky in this aspect (unlucky in others)
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      06-09-2021, 08:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
In the US, it's a $10k USD upgrade on a regular M5. The question is more if it is worth it over an M3 I think.
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.
Is that base price to base price? Or is that the price of a loaded up M5?
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      06-09-2021, 08:50 PM   #39
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I'm still skeptical about the M5 CS vs. the Comp. While the price increment in the US is not all that great when comparing similarly equipped cars, the performance differences seem suspect.

First, all these reviews keep talking about the revised suspension on the CS. But from every review I have read, its sounds like exactly the same revisions that the LCI Comp received. Same amount of drop, same revisions from the M8, etc.

The increase in HP appears to be a simple matter of raising the red-line a few hundred RPM since the torque spec has not changed. This is unlikely to have much impact in the real world, particularly since the increase is about 1.5%.

Finally, the reduced weight of the CS is primarily from 3 things, the carbon brakes (which can be equipped on the regular and Comp M5), the carbon hood (probably only saves 10 to 30 pounds), and the carbon seats (likely saves 100 lbs. but at the expense of only two seats in the back and no massage in the front).

So far, the performance difference between the older non-LCI M5 Comp and the M5 CS is 7 seconds on the 'ring and that is with the CS on track tires versus the Comp on street tires. Before declaring the CS a far superior track tool, I would like to see an updated 'ring time for the LCI Comp (given its new and improved suspension), particularly if it could be run with the same track tires as used by the CS. Let's face it, track tires alone could easily provide a 7 second reduction in 'ring time over the course of 7+ minutes.

Finally, while I love my 2021 M5 Comp, I have to point out that both the AMG GT 63s and the new Porsche Panamera Turbo S are at least 7 to 8 seconds faster on the 'ring than the M5 CS. While both of these cars cost $50K+ more than the M5 CS, they are likely objectively better on track. Part of the reason is that both of those competitors include rear wheel steering. Sadly, BMW opted not to include this on the M5.
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      06-09-2021, 08:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon H View Post
The M5 Competition LCI is just such a stellar car, im still unsure if the CS raises the stakes, and the bar, that much higher, for the £+$ involved ?.I know Joe Achilles CS video will be along soon, so a real life POV will be a welcome comparison.
Just wait for a M5CS LCI 🤣
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      06-09-2021, 09:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
I'm still skeptical about the M5 CS vs. the Comp. While the price increment in the US is not all that great when comparing similarly equipped cars, the performance differences seem suspect.

First, all these reviews keep talking about the revised suspension on the CS. But from every review I have read, its sounds like exactly the same revisions that the LCI Comp received. Same amount of drop, same revisions from the M8, etc.

The increase in HP appears to be a simple matter of raising the red-line a few hundred RPM since the torque spec has not changed. This is unlikely to have much impact in the real world, particularly since the increase is about 1.5%.

Finally, the reduced weight of the CS is primarily from 3 things, the carbon brakes (which can be equipped on the regular and Comp M5), the carbon hood (probably only saves 10 to 30 pounds), and the carbon seats (likely saves 100 lbs. but at the expense of only two seats in the back and no massage in the front).

So far, the performance difference between the older non-LCI M5 Comp and the M5 CS is 7 seconds on the 'ring and that is with the CS on track tires versus the Comp on street tires. Before declaring the CS a far superior track tool, I would like to see an updated 'ring time for the LCI Comp (given its new and improved suspension), particularly if it could be run with the same track tires as used by the CS. Let's face it, track tires alone could easily provide a 7 second reduction in 'ring time over the course of 7+ minutes.

Finally, while I love my 2021 M5 Comp, I have to point out that both the AMG GT 63s and the new Porsche Panamera Turbo S are at least 7 to 8 seconds faster on the 'ring than the M5 CS. While both of these cars cost $50K+ more than the M5 CS, they are likely objectively better on track. Part of the reason is that both of those competitors include rear wheel steering. Sadly, BMW opted not to include this on the M5.
I think you’re comparing factory times with journo times. Factory time is likely to eclipse the competition. Again conjecture atm. Will see. Also I did not see Corsas being the tire for ring lap being mentioned. The car can potentially, though unlikely, be on the non corsa option.

I bought my CS as a daily driver since it’s reportedly comfier than the standard car.....comfier yet sportier. Broader in capabilities (to what extent is unknown) yet similar in purpose at a slight numerical expense which I think is inconsequential (at least here in the US)
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      06-09-2021, 10:18 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnhayes View Post
The problem here is:

We're dealing with such a good starting point. The straight M5, optioned out really well for mine in 2018 was $110,000

To put that in perspective, I have a sedan with four doors, that I can take on vacation, that lays down the exact same times at VIR for me as my 2009 GT-R that was tuned. Not long ago, that was basically unimaginable.

Take the 2022 M5 CS back to 2009, and it's a world beater, and a steal at the price it is listed at.

The F90 M5 is just such a great car. Is the CS that much better?

I'll give you my vote. My order is in. I think my allocation will be produced in the later part of the year rather than July, but I'm hoping I get it earlier. I have a track weekend at VIR in November, and I'd love to ride this beast at WOT down the back straightaway. My 2018 makes 160mph. Only the almighty knows what this one will do....

Shawn
Well, you remember that back in 2009, BMW made a one off M5 CSL, with a screaming V10? That was the handwriting on the wall. If you compared this M5 CS to that M5 CSL from 2009, what are the chances that you’d pick the e60 M5 CSL? If only they put it in production...





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      06-09-2021, 10:33 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
In the US, it's a $10k USD upgrade on a regular M5. The question is more if it is worth it over an M3 I think.
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.
Is that base price to base price? Or is that the price of a loaded up M5?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
In the US, it's a $10k USD upgrade on a regular M5. The question is more if it is worth it over an M3 I think.
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.
Is that base price to base price? Or is that the price of a loaded up M5?
Base is $122 for the M5, $165 for base CS
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      06-09-2021, 10:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malrash View Post
I think you’re comparing factory times with journo times. Factory time is likely to eclipse the competition. Again conjecture atm. Will see. Also I did not see Corsas being the tire for ring lap being mentioned. The car can potentially, though unlikely, be on the non corsa option.

I bought my CS as a daily driver since it’s reportedly comfier than the standard car.....comfier yet sportier. Broader in capabilities (to what extent is unknown) yet similar in purpose at a slight numerical expense which I think is inconsequential (at least here in the US)
The 'ring times I was comparing (7:36 for M5 Comp, 7:29.57 for CS) were set by the exact same driver, Christian Gebhardt, as reported on fastestlaps.com (here is the link: https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife).

While I don't have a link supporting my statement that the CS was on Corsa tires, my understanding is that published 'ring times are for cars in stock form, including tires, unless otherwise specified. My understanding is that the CS comes with Corsa tires as stock.

In any case, while I am sure the CS is a fine car and has some level of exclusivity over and above a base or comp M5, I am not convinced that it is actually faster on track.

As for comparing the CS to the AMG and the Porsche, those were driven by factory drivers, but Christian Gebhardt is no slouch. Based on reports from fastestlaps.com, it appears he is consistently within 2 to 5 seconds of factory drivers with Porsche and AMG cars. 7 to 8 seconds is quite a bit to make up with just a different driver. We shall see when BMW's factory driver hits the 'ring. It is a bit odd that BMW has not yet published a 'ring time with its own driver.

Last edited by irablumberg; 06-09-2021 at 10:54 PM..
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