[CarlosM4]

Got to drive the new F90 M5 today, the Brazilian presscar lol. What a car, but I have some disappointments when compared to my M6 F06.

It was a standard non CCB car. Drove side to side with the E 63 S owned by my friend (non CCB) and my M6 GC. Got say it is pretty epic but I don't think it is better than the E 63 S. It is different, but not better. Both are amazing.

Will post more of thoughts later. What a car though. Incredible road acceleration and highway performance.

[Vic55]

nice Carlos, I expected a more in depth review though from YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Vic55

nice Carlos, I expected a more in depth review though from YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just had to wrap my mind, and I am bloody tired. But anyway here it goes:

Separating it into different criteria:

-----------Dynamics and Driving:


Engine:
The 4.0TT vs 4.4TT is won by the smaller engine. The E63's engine feels punchier from the get go, the M5's engine feels punchier from 5.5k rpm up to the redline. Nevertheless the 4.0TT revs better and has better throttle response. The M5's throttle has more lag than I was expecting (more than the M6 GC), the lag only gets cancelled in the SportPlus setting.

The engine noise emanated from the M5 is nice (a lot better than the previous engine sound from the F06) but no where near the E63's symphony of thunder. The E63 barks and growls on down and upshifts, while the M5 is a lot quieter. That has an upside though, in the M5 you can drive for longer in the sporter settings without getting annoyed by the exhaust. The E63 any setting other than Comfort and Exhaust on the not loud setting is a bit tiring.

I don't believe the M5 is faster than the E63 in a straight line, what it feels like is the M5 has shorter and closer gearing all the way to 4th, which makes it quicker around those speeds. Over 200kph, the E63 feels and probably is faster. Nevertheless both offer mesmerising speed in an effortless manner. We reached triple digits starting in 2s, all the time.

Compared to my F06, I feel like throttle response in the F90 was a let down (it hasn't changed at all to the better), and the engine although punchier feels very similar. It is a great engine though, probably one of the best modern V8's for sure. The M177 just has a so much character, it is hard to not give it a 10/10. It is spectularly good.


Transmission:
The ZF8 is great, but I like the character of the MCT 9 speed more. It feels more in tune with a supersaloon. It is shittier than the ZF8 at town speeds, (the F90 is butter smooth 99% of the time, but it can jerk on steep uphills), the MCT feels jerkier especially on downshifts coming to a stop. Both are pretty civilized in comfort, but the ZF8 is better.

On the highway at speed, and shifting through gears in manual mode the E63's MCT feels marginally slower. But the difference is pretty much imperceptible. Both are almost immediate, although they have a delay, which you don't get in the M-DCT or PDK. In the M6 I can touch the paddle, and before I finished touching the paddle, the gear has changed. The ZF8 and MCT, my hand has left the paddle when the gear is changed. (This may sound retarded but it is one of my references).

One thing I quite like is that the MCT in full attack mode, has a small jerk forward in every gearshift (something not present on the ZF8), which makes it feel more in tune with a race car feel. It is something the M-DCT has and I like it.

Nevertheless the M-DCT is definitely quicker and more responsive. I feel like the move to the ZF8 was a loss. The ZF8 is smoother, but other than that I see no real gain. The new Launch Control feature from the ZF8 is also pretty crappy, as it doesn't really hold the car in position (it feels like the car is battling to launch, while it is held by the brakes, it doesn't feel like an emulated neutral to drive, like in a DCT). The M-DCT is also superior to the MCT, although the MCT is more related in character to it. The paddleshifter delay is finally solved for AMGs.

Gearing ratios, I have to concede that BMW M has finally nailed gearing. The M5's gearing from 0-220 is pretty spectacular. Makes it feel even faster than it is. The MCT's gearing is shit compared.

Suspension:
The biggest difference between both cars is here. The M5's suspension is miles more comfortable, but it feels more wallowy and insulated. The M5 appears to have a little more body roll. The E63 feels more connected to the road by the suspension, you don't feel like you are in a leather bullet, disconnected from the world. The M5's suspension though is a lot superior, when driving on the road, especially here. I don't find the E63 S rough riding (although it is still rougher than my M6), but the M5 F90 is miles and miles and miles more supple than either the M6 and the E63. The E63 you feel the bumps, but in Comfort, it is tolerable. Nevertheless anything above Sport is unusuable, it is unbearably harsh. The M5 is exceedingly good though, what a comfortable ride.

Through corners the M5 feels a little more nimble (probably due to the weight difference), and it feels like it has a little tad more grip in the front. The E63 feels more controllable (pretty bizarre actually), and predictable, probably due to its stiffer ride, it also feels like it has less body roll.

The odd thing is that the M6 GC feels more chuckable than both lol (although a lot scarier and more likely to result in death).

In handling, there are plus or minuses both ways, but the M5 is slightly better.

I don't mind a firm ride, but to my eyes for an executive supersaloon, the E63S is too harsh. It should be softer.

Steering:
This is my biggest disappointment in the M5 F90. No matter what setting, steering is awful. No other word for it. It was shit in the F06, and my biggest criticism of the car, and apparently it hasn't improved much. Steering feels too heavy, and it doesn't weigh up predictably, causing it to feel like it has no connection to the road. It feels rubbery. It doesn't have any sense of communication. It is pretty and satisfyingly quick and direct though.

The E63's steering is a lot better, like miles and miles better. Steering feel is good (way better than the M5), but still below what it should be. The main difference is that it weighs far more nicely than the M5's, which gives it a sense of agility. It is a little less direct and quick, but pretty darn good.

My biggest difference in favour of the E63 in dynamics was here. The steering makes the M5 feel a little blunt, although it is more of a precision tool, than the E63. The M5 really starts to come alive dynamically when you push it really, really hard. The E63 begins to fall down in this region, as it loses some of its precision (due to mass mainly). The M5 is very precise at the limit.


Brakes:
Both are OK for steelies, but the M5's steelies are superior. Not wonderful, but superior. What pleased me is that fading in the M5 has been significantly improved compared to the past. The E63 brakes nearly as well as the M5, but its fading is worse. Pedal feel is pretty similar. The M5 feel like it has more initial bite, while the E63 appears to require less pressure when braking, which is not what I like, as it is harder to modulate. Both good though.

In general
Engine - E63 10/10, M5 9/10
Transmission - E63 8/10, M5 9/10
Suspension - E63 6/10, M5 9/10
Steering - E63 8/10, M5 5/10
Brakes - E63 8/10, M5 9/10

Total:
E63 - 40/50
M5 - 41/50

-----------Day to Day ownership

Equipment and electronics:
The M5 leaves the E63 in the dust here. A lot more gyzmos and techy stuff. The screens on the E63 are better, but the back seat entertainment, the gesture controls, the key, the ability to manipulate air conditioning through the key outside the car, and all else, makes the M5 feel like it is 5 years ahead in tech. The autonomous driving crap is pretty similar, although the M5's is superior (and you can leave it in Sport Plus or something which made it go full throttle LOL). The M5's IDrive also feels easier, more intuitive and acessible when compared to Comand. The E63's panoramic sunroof though, is quite nice, and I wish you could spec the M5 with something similar other than the small sunroof or shitty CF roof.

The M6 feels like a 10 year old car compared to the E63, and a 15 when compared to the M5.


Fit/Finish and Space:
The E63 feels roomier, but it also feels more sophisticated. The screens feel nicely integrated and the interior feels more luxurious. It also feels like it is made from a nicer and softer leather. The headliner is crap though (if you don't opt for Dinamica headliner), and the Anthracite in the M5 feels better and softer. Both are good though. The E63 also has a bigger boot (but by a small margin).

The seats are a hard one to call, but the M5's feels a tad mushier and softer. Quite comfortable and supportive seats (loved them). I hated the plasticky paddle shifter and steering wheel buttons though, no where the soft touch E63 buttons.

The M6 GC is pretty much comparable in quality to the F90, the old M Steering is nicer to hold and Paddles feel a lot better, but the styling is old, and the seats are pretty far behind the new ones.

Design:
This is the most controversial part of them all. I find both OK. I quite like the M5's front end and side profile, but I hate its butt. The E63 S rear is nicer, so it is more aggressive and classic styling front end. The E63 looks nicer but only if you opt for the incredibly expensive Matte finishes. In normal everyday metallic colours, the M5 excels.

Design wise, in the cabin the M5's dash and IDrive screen look better, (and so do the seats). But it is all subjective. Both are good.


Comfort/Insulation and Traffic driving
This is where the M5 really shows it is more better all rounder nature. It feels like an 530i in traffic. Incredibly quiet in comfortable, very economical with startstop and efficiency active (managed nearly 20mpg in bad traffic, nearly 5 more than the E63 S). Great ride comfort, and very nicely insulated cabin. No external noises are hard and the soft leather seats are great. The E63 S comes close, but the seats are harder, and the engine is far more perceptible in traffic (by the exhaust and vibrations). It feels less sound insulated as well. AC in both cars are pretty good, but the M5 has ventilated seats as standard, something which is optional in the E63 S.

The M5's ride is also a lot better as said above.

Finally
Price:
This is the shitty part of choosing between both. They are too darn expensive new, and depreciate like cheap garbage. The E63 S is 187k USD here, and the M5 is 180k USD here. The M5 has a lot more standard equipment as seen below, so it takes the cake (here in my side of the pond).


Equipment difference here (standard package)
E63 S has panoramic sunroof as standard which the M5 doesn't have
M5 has smart key, ventilated seats, massage seats, rear seat entertainment, rear seat curtains and alcantara headliner as standard which the E63 S doesn't have

Comfort and Day to Day Ownership
Equipment: E63 S 8/10, M5 10/10
Fit&Finish&Space: E63 S 10/10, M5 8/10
Design: E63 S 8/10, M5 7/10
Day2Day: E63 S 8/10, M5 10/10
Price: E63 S 4/10, M5 6/10
Overall: E63 S 38/10, M5 41/10

Total: E63 S 78/100, M5 82/100

I think the M5 is the better car (all rounder). It feels a little more blunt than the E63 unless you go 10/10's which it starts to come alive, where as the E63 starts to disappoint a little (due to weight mainly). The M5 is the 911 Turbo S of Sedans, it is the king in capability, but it does so in a cold hearted way. It is still amazing.

I got say that the E63 character of loud exhaust and more aggressive looks interest me more as I don't feel comfortable driving these cars hard at 10/10. Both are epic. This is the hardest choice ever between the two.

If I had to buy one in my current age and status, I would go for the M5, as it is the more dignified and coherent choice (family father), but if I was in for more fun, I would give up some of the dignity and go for the AMG.

Another funny thing is that although old the M6 GC can still trade punches with the new boys. It can keep up and still has some nicer aspects as the gearbox, styling and finish. It lacks some of the tech (especially autonomous crap), and AWD, but it is still pretty damn good. I will probably buy the F90, but after 2 years, as I am too poor to afford a new one cash here in Brazil.

[daddymalu]

Wow that is a good write up... Thanks for the info....

[Slugsy01]

Great review, totally agree with everything you say!

Only thing you didn’t mention of course is the E63 is available in Estate format which the M5 isn’t.

That is what’s causing me my dilemma in which to get!!

[Phatcat]

Nice one Carlos.

[CarlosM4]

Thanks for all the support.
Really enjoyed driving these beasts, and I am really glad me and my friend got to go to the M5 F90 press event (my friend has the right contacts in BMW). The main difference between the two now, is based on what you like or not. It is more preferences than actual differences. Both are excellent.

The E63 S is the nicer car from 3/10 to 9/10's
The M5 is the nicer car when driving day to day in traffic and in town and when going for the extreme limit. I really like both.

[daddymalu]

CarloM4.... Would you trade in trade in the m6 gran coupe for it? Just curios.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by daddymalu

CarloM4.... Would you trade in trade in the m6 gran coupe for it? Just curios.

I would as it is a better car overall. Far more rounded. As it is 4WD it launches properly, and isn't tricky or dangerous at the limit. The M6 GC is pretty dangerous at limit handling. The M5 is also smoother and a far better daily.

Nevertheless the M6 GC is a more engaging and thrilling drive, probably as it is RWD and M-DCT. You feel more connected.

My main criticism of the M5 F90 is that it is now too capable and effortless. So is the E63 S, but the E63 S as it has better steering feel and exhaust, you still feel more in tune with the car. I think the M5 F90 is awesome, but somes of the intanginble like a 911 Turbo S. If I had to put it, I would say the M5 F90 is a 911 Turbo S, the M6 GC is a 911 GT2, and the E63 S is like a 911 Turbo S but a tad less precise, and far noisier (possibly an R8 V10 Plus). That is how I would put it.

As I use my car daily, and when I travel, I travel with family, the M5 F90 is by far the best of the three. If I drove only on weekends, the M5 would lose to the E63 S to my eyes, as that exhaust is awesome (although it can get tiring).

[Vic55]

Carlos, I asked and you answered ... in spades. Thanks for a full comprehensive review of both cars. You covered it all and I dont think I have any questions except for your transmission review. The way I read it you really enjoyed the MCT more but still gave the ZF8 the win (10-9). Was that due to the gearing at lower speeds?

Again what an amazing choice we have in super saloons.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Carlos, I asked and you answered ... in spades. Thanks for a full comprehensive review of both cars. You covered it all and I dont think I have any questions except for your transmission review. The way I read it you really enjoyed the MCT more but still gave the ZF8 the win (10-9). Was that due to the gearing at lower speeds?

Again what an amazing choice we have in super saloons.

Thanks Vic, these cars are sensational.

I gave the extra 1 point by its extra smoothness and its great gearing (which makes the M5 produce outstanding numbers on the 1/4 mile). The MCT though feels more mechanical and more in tune with a racing feel. Both are equally quick on manual shifts. But if I had to choose between both for my car, I would still have the MCT or the good ol' M-DCT

[mirob]

Great write-up man! Pretty much confirms what we thought, can't go wrong either way.

[Slugsy01]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Thanks for all the support.
Really enjoyed driving these beasts, and I am really glad me and my friend got to go to the M5 F90 press event (my friend has the right contacts in BMW). The main difference between the two now, is based on what you like or not. It is more preferences than actual differences. Both are excellent.

The E63 S is the nicer car from 3/10 to 9/10's
The M5 is the nicer car when driving day to day in traffic and in town and when going for the extreme limit. I really like both.

Awesome review, very helpful for me.

Sorry to be an idiot, what do you mean by 3/10 to 9/10?

[mirob]

Originally Posted by Slugsy01

Awesome review, very helpful for me.

Sorry to be an idiot, what do you mean by 3/10 to 9/10?

I believe he's trying to convey that the E63 is rough around town (i.e., stop-and-go traffic) and that it falls flat at the very limit, but it's just perfect for intermediate and spirited driving.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by mirob

I believe he's trying to convey that the E63 is rough around town (i.e., stop-and-go traffic) and that it falls flat at the very limit, but it's just perfect for intermediate and spirited driving.

Yup. That is exactly what I meant. Sorry if I did not make it clear.

In day to day (up to 3/10's of the car limits) the M5 is superior, as it is quieter, and more comfortable. This is fast driving but not really sporty.

From 3/10 to 8-9/10 the E63 is nicer as it has the drama with the exhaust, and the nicer steering.

At the limit the M5 is dynamically better, that is why it is best there.

[neohh]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yup. That is exactly what I meant. Sorry if I did not make it clear.

In day to day (up to 3/10's of the car limits) the M5 is superior, as it is quieter, and more comfortable. This is fast driving but not really sporty.

From 3/10 to 8-9/10 the E63 is nicer as it has the drama with the exhaust, and the nicer steering.

At the limit the M5 is dynamically better, that is why it is best there.

Most buyer in this segment chose M5 for the duality. And I think it is important to be great at both (DD and spirited driving) in this segment. That's where I think E63s fall short. If we only consider spirited driving I believe there are other better options at this price range (or lower).

Anyways great review nonetheless. Ever consider a career in car journalism?

[Slugsy01]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yup. That is exactly what I meant. Sorry if I did not make it clear.

In day to day (up to 3/10's of the car limits) the M5 is superior, as it is quieter, and more comfortable. This is fast driving but not really sporty.

From 3/10 to 8-9/10 the E63 is nicer as it has the drama with the exhaust, and the nicer steering.

At the limit the M5 is dynamically better, that is why it is best there.

Thanks, can’t disagree with that at all, I have to make a call by Monday. All logic says the M5, just that noise of the AMG and the Estate form has advantages for me.

Argh!

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by neohh

Most buyer in this segment chose M5 for the duality. And I think it is important to be great at both (DD and spirited driving) in this segment. That's where I think E63s fall short. If we only consider spirited driving I believe there are other better options at this price range (or lower).

Anyways great review nonetheless. Ever consider a career in car journalism?

I would actually enjoy, but my company already demands me too much. Maybe when I consider retiring. I just like to gather my thoughts on everything I drive and review it. The E63 and M5 battle really appeals to me because for the last 4 years these are the cars I have been battling to own. I have owned C63 W204, E63 W212 LCI, CLS63 C218, M5 F10 and M6 F06, and I am an AMG and BMW M fanboy. The only fast cars I happen to dislike are Audis. To me they feel like high powered 7 Series without the luxuries of such car.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Slugsy01

Thanks, can’t disagree with that at all, I have to make a call by Monday. All logic says the M5, just that noise of the AMG and the Estate form has advantages for me.

Argh!

There is no wrong answer. And an E63 Estate is pretty epic too, unfortunately we don't get the Estate here in Brazil. I really like both cars. In the perfect world it would be nice to own both, or an M5 with the E63's steering and exhaust, or an E63 with the M5 supple ride. Unfortunately there are trade offs between these cars. But there is no wrong answer, the two are the most complete all rounder cars available as of right now.

[Slugsy01]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

There is no wrong answer. And an E63 Estate is pretty epic too, unfortunately we don't get the Estate here in Brazil. I really like both cars. In the perfect world it would be nice to own both, or an M5 with the E63's steering and exhaust, or an E63 with the M5 supple ride. Unfortunately there are trade offs between these cars. But there is no wrong answer, the two are the most complete all rounder cars available as of right now.

Thank you, as sad as I may come across, your views have helped and nice to know I’m on the same wavelength!

[vtknight]

Thank-you for the review Carlos - I am surprised about your liking the MCT - something I hated in my E63S - I literally could not shift manually in that car as it wouldn't shift when you pressed the paddle without a significant delay. I have the same ZF auto in my M550ix that my M5 will get - and I love that transmission (as it's quick enough but still smooth - but it also can manually shift well).

Just wanting to make sure there wasn't something I missed in your comments.

Thanks again!

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Thank-you for the review Carlos - I am surprised about your liking the MCT - something I hated in my E63S - I literally could not shift manually in that car as it wouldn't shift when you pressed the paddle without a significant delay. I have the same ZF auto in my M550ix that my M5 will get - and I love that transmission (as it's quick enough but still smooth - but it also can manually shift well).

Just wanting to make sure there wasn't something I missed in your comments.

Thanks again!

Carlos will chime in but I think he did mention that he felt AMG fixed the delay in the MCT paddle shifting response.

From my own perspective, Ive had 5 MCT's prior to this one and felt the paddle response to shift was pretty sad. But with the 9 speed MCT in the E63S- they fixed the electronics and the shifting is on point as it should be.