[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

LP, if he's running that 235 at Lightning or Thunderbolt, I think he'll cook his stock pads... They at very least fade...which you won't want at the end of that straight on Lightning...

Stock pads on the 235 are fine. Your will not cook them.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Brake fluid and pads.

Make sure the dealer actually does change the brake fluid. Many will argue that it does not need to be done until 24 months. This is unacceptable for track use. You must have a fresh brake fluid change.

[dphjr]

Originally Posted by rich8566

Make sure the dealer actually does change the break fluid. Many will argue that it does not need to be done until 24 months. This is unacceptable for track use. You must have a fresh brake fluid change.

I was debating doing this myself. Do you know how hard it is to change on our cars? I apologize I'm not very experienced in working on stuff myself.

[Mywifes335]

I can't tell you 100% that the stock pads are fine. But that's your call.

As far as fluid, I strongly suggest using a DOT 4 compatible high temp fluid like ATE Gold or Motul 600. In a pinch, you can buy Pentosin Super DOT 4 at Autozone.

Stock fluid is made to last, which makes it more likely to boil over...especially if it's not fresh.

You can change your brake fluid yourself...but wouldn't risk it if it's your first time.

For future reference:

Get a speed bleeder (optional)
Caliper pressing tools (multi-piston compatible)
Some empty bottles to catch the fluid you pump out when bleeding
A friend to turn the bleeder valve or pump the brakes

[Pparana]

no need to do much, bleed brakes, if over 8 months from build date flush. If you are running stock pads, which there is no reason not to if your just starting stick with stock fluid.
You want to fluid to boil before the brakes get ruined. If you run race fluid with stock pads you can destroy the pads, rotors and caliper seals with too much heat. If pedal gets soft, just end the session, but very unlikely unless your driving all wrong. Do they give you instructors at that event?

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by Pparana

no need to do much, bleed brakes, if over 8 months from build date flush. If you are running stock pads, which there is no reason not to if your just starting stick with stock fluid.
You want to fluid to boil before the brakes get ruined. If you run race fluid with stock pads you can destroy the pads, rotors and caliper seals with too much heat. If pedal gets soft, just end the session, but very unlikely unless your driving all wrong. Do they give you instructors at that event?

Listen to Pparana -- he has the most experience out of all of us.

[casper83]

Originally Posted by Pparana

no need to do much, bleed brakes, if over 8 months from build date flush. If you are running stock pads, which there is no reason not to if your just starting stick with stock fluid.
You want to fluid to boil before the brakes get ruined. If you run race fluid with stock pads you can destroy the pads, rotors and caliper seals with too much heat. If pedal gets soft, just end the session, but very unlikely unless your driving all wrong. Do they give you instructors at that event?

When I first started last year I did exactly what Pparana says not to do (not knowing any better at the time) and had exactly the results he says will happen. I changed fluid only. Consumed the stock pads and melted the caliper seals in one outing.

While on track keep your eyes up and look ahead. Be aware. Patience. When trying to improve your performance break the track up into sections and work on it a section at a time. It's much easier to focus on few corners at a time and master them rather than the entire track each lap. Print out a track map and tape it to your dashboard. Talk to people. Folks are generally friendly at track days and they'll have some good tips on a good line. Someone may be willing to do a lead follow. Put your gopro in their car.

Since it's a track day there isn't really much to win (other having fun), but there is a whole lot you can lose.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by casper83

When I first started last year I did exactly what Pparana says not to do (not knowing any better at the time) and had exactly the results he says will happen. I changed fluid only. Consumed the stock pads and melted the caliper seals in one outing.

While on track keep your eyes up and look ahead. Be aware. Patience. When trying to improve your performance break the track up into sections and work on it a section at a time. It's much easier to focus on few corners at a time and master them rather than the entire track each lap. Print out a track map and tape it to your dashboard. Talk to people. Folks are generally friendly at track days and they'll have some good tips on a good line. Someone may be willing to do a lead follow. Put your gopro in their car.

Since it's a track day there isn't really much to win (other having fun), but there is a whole lot you can lose.

This is so true. Please, please, please, do not be that guy that mashes the go pedal right out of the start. Do a few warm up laps, and do not worry about your times at first. Just start learning the track and learning how to negotiate the corners. Work on being smooth and precise. Speed will come later.

One of the things you will find out very quickly is that driver ability is so, so much more important that machine ability. I am a very novice driver, and I was frequently getting passed by much "slower" cars (Miatas and GT-86s). Do not get upset if a guy in a Miata smokes you. Do not get upset if a guy in a minivan smokes you. It is all part of the learning process.

[semclane]

One thought to add: for your very first time on the track, the "Track Night" folks will put you in the novice run group. You most likely will start with someone in the passenger seat to coach you so pay attention to any guidance they may give. Passing zones will be limited to straights and you will be briefed on the "point by" protocol, so as you enter the passing zone straight(s) check you mirror and if anyone is on your tail, stay to the right, stick your left hand out the window to point them by, and slow down a bit if needed to let them pass. If you enter the straight on someone elses tail, wait for a point by, and if you don't get it, just stay behind them. Like said earlier there is no "winning" so be patient and have fun.

[dphjr]

Originally Posted by semclane

One thought to add: for your very first time on the track, the "Track Night" folks will put you in the novice run group. You most likely will start with someone in the passenger seat to coach you so pay attention to any guidance they may give. Passing zones will be limited to straights and you will be briefed on the "point by" protocol, so as you enter the passing zone straight(s) check you mirror and if anyone is on your tail, stay to the right, stick your left hand out the window to point them by, and slow down a bit if needed to let them pass. If you enter the straight on someone elses tail, wait for a point by, and if you don't get it, just stay behind them. Like said earlier there is no "winning" so be patient and have fun.

Yes, I'm signed up for the novice group. Not trying to set any records or anything haha, just trying to get a feel for how the car handles on track and learn techniques for driving on track. I think they do a lot of sessions and pace laps to get us familiar with everything.

[dphjr]

Originally Posted by Pparana

no need to do much, bleed brakes, if over 8 months from build date flush. If you are running stock pads, which there is no reason not to if your just starting stick with stock fluid.
You want to fluid to boil before the brakes get ruined. If you run race fluid with stock pads you can destroy the pads, rotors and caliper seals with too much heat. If pedal gets soft, just end the session, but very unlikely unless your driving all wrong. Do they give you instructors at that event?

So you'd recommend using stock fluid? The car has just hit the one year build date mark, so I suppose i should flush the brakes. What oem fluid does BMW use? I already ordered a liter of the ATE 200 recommended above, but I can put that aside and use something else for now.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by dphjr

So you'd recommend using stock fluid? The car has just hit the one year build date mark, so I suppose i should flush the brakes. What oem fluid does BMW use? I already ordered a liter of the ATE 200 recommended above, but I can put that aside and use something else for now.

ATE 200 is fine, its boiling point is not that high.

[Anthony235]

Good info here. The only thing I would suggest is going with different pads and fluid. Even more so if you're a beginner.

Beginners tend to ride their brakes more and brake too early. This puts a lot of unnecessary heat into them. When the brakes don't react as expected it can be very scary for a beginner (even experienced drivers).

I would prioritize the fluid over the pads if you have to choose one or the other (should do both). I've always ran RBF600. Expensive, but well worth it.

I've also ran the Brembo HTC fluid. Very expensive, but I didn't see an improvement over RBF.

As for which pads to go with I quickly learned to take pad advice with a grain of salt. It really depends on skill level and driving style. One person will say "X" pad is great on the track and then you will try the pad on the track and it will end up being garbage.

Not sure what compounds are out there for the 235 (I just got the car), but these are my go to pads:

Endless MX72 - If you want a good upgraded street pad this is a sufficient pad for most drivers that see occasional track use with street tires.

Endless ME20 - The most aggressive street pad that endless makes (i think). Probably good for about 80% of track day drivers with aggressive street tires (RS3, etc).

ProjectMu 999 - My go to pad. Full track pad that can be driven on the street with little noise. Can handle R compound tires no problem (NT01, etc).

Raybestos ST line - Great bang for the buck. Can handle R comps.

Generally it's better to have more pad than tire. You don't want more tire than pad. Best case they are evenly matched

Most of these aren't cheap. Again your experience will vary depending on many factors.

[zipphreak]

I've tried the different types of bleeding methods..

1. Manual - Requires two people and good coordination.
- Pump up brake and hold Brake down
- Bleeder open for a few seconds then close.
- Release Brake, pump smoothly a few times to build up a hard pedal. Try not to mash the pedal like a barbarian. It does not help the bubbles.
- Repeat over and over. (RR then LF then LR then RF)

2. Mityvac type vacuum bleeder.
- Hose goes over bleeder
- Pump vacuum up on bleeder
- Crack open bleeder until you see fluid / bubbles coming through
- Now repeat until all bubbles are gone and new fluid is visibly through.
- I've found that most bleeders seep air through the bleeder threads, you need to put some petroleum jelly around the threads to maintain the vacuum, otherwise you will not get a good bleed and you will pull thousands of bubbles from the threads and you won't really know if you are bleeding properly.

3. The almighty pressure bleeder from Motive. This thing is pretty slick. It attaches at the MC cap, you pour in new fluid in the container. It's basically a pest sprayer converted into a poor mans brake bleeder. And this new Black edition has a fancy aluminum cap which flashes it up a bit, but not required
- Get the pressure up to 10-15 psi in the bleeder. There is a max that is listed on the instructions but i forget at this point.
- Start at the first wheel which should be RR. Move on to the LF.
- Repeat for the next brake circuit, LR and RF. I believe those are the common circuits for the M235 brakes.
- Between each wheel check the PSI in the bleeder is between 10-15 and if you are not getting a good stream, give it a few more pumps, but you do not want to go too high.

For all methods a rubber mallet helps to encourage trapped / larger bubbles to break up and escape.

When you are done bleeding you should take some brake cleaner to the pads, rotors, and clean around the bleeder valve. Surface contaminants on your brakes will not help you stop quicker.

And Don't forget to put the bleeder caps back on

[bryan_G01]

read this:


Performance-Driving-Illustrated-ebook-Ross-Bentley-Speed-Secrets.pdf

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

i would run more like 38F 35R cold else you will destroy the PSS shoulders and even so you might still kill them with no extra camber

+1 with the stock vehicle. "i would run more like 38F 35R cold else you will destroy the PSS shoulders and even so you might still kill them with no extra camber".

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Honestly, if you are new, I wouldn't do much of anything other than brakes. An understeering car is a safe car. Just just chuck it into a corner quite as hard.

Get used to how the car drives (mostly) stock first, and then tweak as needed. Simply doing a bunch of mods "because you can" isn't terribly helpful.

As far as brakes, depends on if you want to swap out or not. If you want pure race pads, can't do much better than Pagid RS29s. If you don't want to swap, I run EBC Yellows which work pretty well. You could also try Ferodo DS2500 or Endless MX72s. Note that the Ferodo and Endless pads are quite expensive per axle.

Hey! I found a great price on the Ferodo DS2500s. I WAS going to get the EBC Yellowstuffs but the fronts have been on backorder.

Also, what are your thoughts on these and the Pagid RSL1?

Thanks!

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by dphjr

Hey guys, I'm going to track night in New Jersey : http://www.tracknightinamerica.com/e...ersey-april-27

And I wanted to see if anyone had some tips on preparing for the track, as I've never participated in a track day before. My car is going into the shop monday for an oil change and software update, and I wanted to see if there was anything else they should inspect while it's there (alignment, rotation, etc.). I also heard increasing tire pressure is a good idea?

Also, any driving tips for when I'm on the track would be greatly appreciated. I'll have my goPro with me so I can take some cool videos hopefully!

Btw, how was the event?

[dphjr]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Btw, how was the event?

The event was great! I have the videos still sitting on my gopro, but I'll definitely upload them sometime soon. Apologies for not updating, totally forgot about this thread as final exams rolled around. Tires are definitely worn, but still have decent life in them, everything else performed spectacularly! Even managed to pass an M4 so my life is complete

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by dphjr

The event was great! I have the videos still sitting on my gopro, but I'll definitely upload them sometime soon. Apologies for not updating, totally forgot about this thread as final exams rolled around. Tires are definitely worn, but still have decent life in them, everything else performed spectacularly! Even managed to pass an M4 so my life is complete

Haha, good feeling huh?

What did you end up prepping on the car? And we're you easy on the brakes?

[dphjr]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Haha, good feeling huh?

What did you end up prepping on the car? And we're you easy on the brakes?

Yes very! My only prepping was changing the oil and adjusting the tire pressures, as my brake fluid got delayed coming in and I didn't have enough time to change it. I definitely went easy on the brakes, but I got a really good feel for how the car takes corners and handles while doing so. Hopefully I can get back out there in a few months and better prep the car!

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by dphjr

Yes very! My only prepping was changing the oil and adjusting the tire pressures, as my brake fluid got delayed coming in and I didn't have enough time to change it. I definitely went easy on the brakes, but I got a really good feel for how the car takes corners and handles while doing so. Hopefully I can get back out there in a few months and better prep the car!

That's awesome. Next time you go out, def swap the fluid.

For my wife's X3, I just bought a pair of Porterfield R4S for better bite on the street and a liter on ATE 200. I got them for a decent (but not lowest) price from Zeckhausen Racing in Fairfield, NJ. I'm happy to pay a little more because Dr. Z at Zeckhausen is a great guy and will spend time to consult you and find the best brake combination for your intentions.

For my M235i, I'm probably going with the Ferodo DS2500. If I need something more aggressive, I'll get the Pagid RSL1 for the track.

Hope you find Dr. Z!