Am I the only E90 owner who thinks IS350 is kicking some ass?

lux.sh · 10-12-2005, 12:36 AM

No BMW biased owners. (aka BMW fans). Non-biased owners please respond.

Ok, with all the pricing, recent pictures, we've seen how they perform..

Am I the only one who thinks Lexus is about to kick our ass?

Fully loaded @ 45k. Magazine reviews shown performance that is
similar, if not better than E90 in every category. Forget the rear-seat
comfort, leave that up to TL or 5 series. This is performance sedan,
and IS350 sounds like a bargain.

I am starting to think that only thing we are getting over the IS350
is the BMW badge, and maybe slight advantage here and there, but
we also have disadvantages here and there.

Honestly, I would go for fully loaded IS350 than barely loaded 330i.

who agree and who disagree? Lets see some intelligent opinions.

And please, do not make such ignorant comments, such as
"its still a toyota". Well, that "toyota" is faster and more reliable
than us. So lets be careful.

NaTuReB0Y · 10-12-2005, 12:48 AM

In terms of quality/reliability.....Lexus is top! But I bought my 330i because I like the design better than the IS350. The IS350 front end looks super sporty and sharp.....but the rear half of the car.....looks boring and old-fashioned(not sporty)....blame the LEXUS LF concept look.....Did the Lexus engineers graduate from the Chris Bangle Design school?

icedragon · 10-12-2005, 12:58 AM

I was considering the new IS and E90.
I didn't get the new IS because it looks like a baby GS, the E90 is more distinctive. I also don't like copycats, and Lexus is such a copycat company. BMW develops "flame-surfacing" design. Soon afterwards, Lexus develops "L-Finesse" design. BMW develops X-drive. Soon afterwards, Lexus develops AWD. BMW offers START button. Soon afterwards, Lexus offers START button. BMW is the leader, Lexus is just a copycat. For crying out loud, why can't Lexus come out with something BEFORE BMW?

Robert · 10-12-2005, 12:59 AM

the is350 seems like it sits much lower than the 330i.

lhoboy8 · 10-12-2005, 01:01 AM

I actually think the IS is a better looking car, much better tech/options, better looking interior. I like the simpler look. But I have a BMW, have ordered a BMW, simply because of the great handling, and solid feel of a european built car. On top of that, I prefer an AWD, and the IS only has AWD on the IS250, which is far to slow for me. I feel the IS is for a much young consumer group, but it is more reliable. Regardless, I am seriously considering changing my order, but I will have to take a test drive first.

The whole copycat things seems untrue. It's just industry trends. If I'm not mistaken, Mercedes came up with a "Start" button ignition or something similar earlier. AWD is just becoming prevalent for all cars in the market. And I would presume that Audi started the whole redesign concept earlier.

Accounting4Speed · 10-12-2005, 01:07 AM

BMW, it is more of a driver's car. The BMW lets you feel the road and exactly how the car is handling it, while the Lexus disconnects you from the road, think cherubs and puffy clouds. As for the stance of the IS, the picture is deceptive due to the angle, if you look at pictures of it being test driven it rides higher than the BMW. For sheer ingenuity, creativity, driving spirit and handling, you would buy the BMW. For economy, reliability and looks that will most assuradly be tired in 2 years, buy the Lexus.

magmd · 10-12-2005, 01:07 AM

I don't know about the looks from the pics. When I was looking at the E90...I did not like the pics so much. I was actually looking at the new A4 as well...but that is another story. In the end, when I actually saw the E90 in person...test drove it.....no contest. Its a beauty..and sometimes pics do not do it complete justice. So...I think I just may have to see the IS in person B4 making a final decision...but so far...+/-

northerncalguy · 10-12-2005, 01:09 AM

I'll try to be as eloquent as possible and offer the following intrinsic observation: The Lexus is a formidable opponent, however, the BMW offers something that drivers cannot quantify. It's like warm apple pie, nothing like it.

wchew · 10-12-2005, 01:14 AM

lux.sh, I absolutely agree with you...and I think IS350 looks very nice as well. I got to admit that the biggest reason that I chose a 330i over IS350 is because of the "BMW" badge. I came from south east asia, where the name BMW is much much bigger than Lexus.

If you switch the badge and keeps everything else the same on both car, I would most probably goes with the IS350.

Yes, I am a prestige whore.

lux.sh · 10-12-2005, 01:34 AM

Good points guys. Keep them coming. I am carefully reading all the posts.

Another question is, would you still have bought the 330i, if it had Lexus
badge(performs as 330i should, everything same, but made by lexus)?
or would you have bought the IS350 with BMW badge.

7ma? · 10-12-2005, 01:34 AM

yeah i gotta agree that the is350 is pretty nice......but i actually dont like the look of it.....doesnt really stand out to me ..dunno why...
on the other hand the e90 really stood out...before i went to test drive it , i "liked" the car, but after the test drive, i was in love with it...something told me that i had to have it.........
I also own a TL, its a really nice car also.....but there is just something about driving and owning a bmw that makes it stand out....

i might go test drive the IS just for the hell of it, maybe i will like it more....its got all the features...but just the looks doesnt appeal to me....

TwinPowerF30 · 10-12-2005, 01:47 AM

anyone know the date the is350 will be released?
nm saw it on that link above.

The all-new IS 250 and IS 350 will be in Lexus dealer showrooms on
October 14.

EVO_S4 · 10-12-2005, 01:52 AM

as I said before if the IS350 was out the same time I bought my 330i it would have been a tough decision for me, but overall I am happy the my 330I

visor · 10-12-2005, 02:13 AM

The IS350 is not going to win over any driving enthusiasts from BMW, despite being more reliable and having more power for the same money, for 2 reasons.

One, no manual (for now).

Two, all magazine previews so far indicate that the new IS is even more isolated from the driving experience than the E90 (which is already slightly more isolated than the previous E46).

In addition, I think that the look of the new IS will not be as classic and timeless as the E90. The E90's look is designed to last for the next 7 years (in BMW's cycle), but the IS will look outdated in 4-5 years ( which is the usual Japanese car cycle).

kchika · 10-12-2005, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedragon

I didn't get the new IS because it looks like a baby GS, the E90 is more distinctive. I also don't like copycats, and Lexus is such a copycat company. BMW develops "flame-surfacing" design. Soon afterwards, Lexus develops "L-Finesse" design. BMW develops X-drive. Soon afterwards, Lexus develops AWD. BMW offers START button. Soon afterwards, Lexus offers START button. BMW is the leader, Lexus is just a copycat. For crying out loud, why can't Lexus come out with something BEFORE BMW?

So true.
Lexus just keeps copying and copying. The only advantage of the IS350 is the horsepower. Other than that, I can't think of anything else.

Xens · 10-12-2005, 02:20 AM

I like the IS350 a lot as well, but the fact they are AGAIN not going to offer manual for a year at least turned me off. Other things are purely subjective: the front and rear look good but the side profile is ugly as hell and the rear view mirrors remind me of elephant ears and look awkwardly positioned. Based upon reviews from various magazines it seems like the IS is a bit too refined for my taste, most editors thought it was very quiet. Sound of the engine/drivetrain/exhaust is one of my favorite things about the BMW.

Nitpicking aside, if they had offered manual I would have done some serious debate between the two.

a burrito · 10-12-2005, 02:29 AM

You cannot go back to japanese after driving a specific car like bmw. Its impossible. Even if the car is the most latest technology and design, it will still feel completely different from a bmw. I should know, i come from a family that has purchased over 5 lexus' in the past years and to tell you the truth they feel similar to toyotas. Its not a bad thing, but just incomparable to what bmw has going on for them.

Oz · 10-12-2005, 02:45 AM

Price might be a bargain but I just don't see how their body/interior is better than a E90. It just doesn't do it for me, no Lexus has...

ZenDriver · 10-12-2005, 03:08 AM

When I was in high school, one of my classmates was a piano savant. He could, by only listening to a piece of music once, reproduce it in exacting detail. When he learned how to read music, he was able to recite technically perfect, down to the inkstain, renditions of anything you put in front of him. It is a mindblowing party trick and his playing was the envy of everyone in the school. During any sort of school-wide talent performance, he was always the closing act and he just... well, let's just say that the people who were not expecting much out of a high school theater performance were amazed.

Of course, I didn't have an appreciation for classical music at the time, I was mostly impressed by the trickery required to look at a piece of paper he had never seen before and his ability to render those notes into beautiful music like a dead cold professional. We remained acquaintances after high school and, in an effort to woo a girl I knew, I had him try to give me a tour of classical music. Thanks to him, I took a liking to Chopin and I picked up a couple of CDs.

I realized something immediately; for all of my friend's skill, he was not a great pianist. While his renditions of notes were perfect (and, given the inner workings of the savant, I believe we are talking about a mathematically accurate definition of the word perfect) his playing lacked... something. I absolutely cannot tell you what makes my friend Ryan's playing different from say, Helene Grimaud but it surely exists and it is what separates technically adept piano players from the Grimauds, Goulds, Connicks and Reznors of the world.

The skills of engineers, international labor markets, computer numerically controlled milling centers, technical parts suppliers... there are literally dozens of factors that are closing what were once the massive gaps between one manufacturer's product and another's. Where BMW once had the edge in "Sports Sedans" and Mercedes owned "Luxury Sedans" and Audi owned... what did Audi ever own? Anyhow, those lines have been blurred and the differences on paper between Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Infinity have been closed to within an inch of each other's lives. None of these companies make a crap car and it takes a racetrack and the 10/10th driving skill to tell the difference.

It comes down to the X-Factor- that beautifully immeasurable difference between my friend's rendition of Piano Sonata No. 2 and Helene Grimaud playing the exact same music. It is on that level that BMW will always dominate the market. Screw the gussied up Toyota...

visor · 10-12-2005, 03:20 AM

Beautiful story!

As has been said before and worth repeating:
BMW is often copied, but never duplicated.

Jay_328 · 10-12-2005, 03:30 AM

As driving machines, neither of these cars is likely to disappoint its buyer. However I do believe the Lexus will always be behind BMW where driving dynamics are concerned. The Lexus looks good now but what about 2/3 years later. IMO, it'll appear old and familiar. Take the Altima, when it first came out that car looked really good. Now... forget about it. Same goes for the Chrysler 300M.

Of course I'm a BMW fan but I also think it is just simply a better car. And it feels great driving a Bimmer as well.

shimshimhada · 10-12-2005, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

When I was in high school, one of my classmates was a piano savant. He could, by only listening to a piece of music once, reproduce it in exacting detail. When he learned how to read music, he was able to recite technically perfect, down to the inkstain, renditions of anything you put in front of him. It is a mindblowing party trick and his playing was the envy of everyone in the school. During any sort of school-wide talent performance, he was always the closing act and he just... well, let's just say that the people who were not expecting much out of a high school theater performance were amazed.

Of course, I didn't have an appreciation for classical music at the time, I was mostly impressed by the trickery required to look at a piece of paper he had never seen before and his ability to render those notes into beautiful music like a dead cold professional. We remained acquaintances after high school and, in an effort to woo a girl I knew, I had him try to give me a tour of classical music. Thanks to him, I took a liking to Chopin and I picked up a couple of CDs.

I realized something immediately; for all of my friend's skill, he was not a great pianist. While his renditions of notes were perfect (and, given the inner workings of the savant, I believe we are talking about a mathematically accurate definition of the word perfect) his playing lacked... something. I absolutely cannot tell you what makes my friend Ryan's playing different from say, Helene Grimaud but it surely exists and it is what separates technically adept piano players from the Grimauds, Goulds, Connicks and Reznors of the world.

The skills of engineers, international labor markets, computer numerically controlled milling centers, technical parts suppliers... there are literally dozens of factors that are closing what were once the massive gaps between one manufacturer's product and another's. Where BMW once had the edge in "Sports Sedans" and Mercedes owned "Luxury Sedans" and Audi owned... what did Audi ever own? Anyhow, those lines have been blurred and the differences on paper between Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Infinity have been closed to within an inch of each other's lives. None of these companies make a crap car and it takes a racetrack and the 10/10th driving skill to tell the difference.

It comes down to the X-Factor- that beautifully immeasurable difference between my friend's rendition of Piano Sonata No. 2 and Helene Grimaud playing the exact same music. It is on that level that BMW will always dominate the market. Screw the gussied up Toyota...

Audi owns Lamborghini

As for playing the piano, my father CANNOT play a piece note-for-note, he always has his own little rendition, which can be considered a good thing.

To the original poster: The IS350 would be a great car for someone like my younger brother, who would simply be satisfied with a good car that's decently quick, has nice amenities, and reliable at a good price. He also doesn't care about "driver feel" and just cares about getting from point A to point B. And he prefers automatic transmissions...but I don't. The longer the distance between A and B, the happier I am in my BMW.

10-12-2005, 12:36 AM	#1
lux.sh missing two turbos. 577 Rep 4,859 Posts Drives: fast around corners. Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Curves iTrader: (12) Garage List 2006 BMW E90 330i [0.00]	Am I the only E90 owner who thinks IS350 is kicking some ass? No BMW biased owners. (aka BMW fans). Non-biased owners please respond. Ok, with all the pricing, recent pictures, we've seen how they perform.. Am I the only one who thinks Lexus is about to kick our ass? Fully loaded @ 45k. Magazine reviews shown performance that is similar, if not better than E90 in every category. Forget the rear-seat comfort, leave that up to TL or 5 series. This is performance sedan, and IS350 sounds like a bargain. I am starting to think that only thing we are getting over the IS350 is the BMW badge, and maybe slight advantage here and there, but we also have disadvantages here and there. Honestly, I would go for fully loaded IS350 than barely loaded 330i. who agree and who disagree? Lets see some intelligent opinions. And please, do not make such ignorant comments, such as "its still a toyota". Well, that "toyota" is faster and more reliable than us. So lets be careful. __________________ 06 AW E90 330i ZPP/ZSP/Step/Expired Warranty : Prior Design Front : ACS Rear : ACS Roof : BlackLines : Simota Intake : Carbon Fiber Interior Trim : : MTEC V3 : 24% Charcoal : V1 Hardwired : Solaris Invisibulbs/LED interior :
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10-12-2005, 12:48 AM	#2
NaTuReB0Y Powered By 36DD 337 Rep 7,369 Posts Drives: 2006 E90 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Inland Empire iTrader: (12)	In terms of quality/reliability.....Lexus is top! But I bought my 330i because I like the design better than the IS350. The IS350 front end looks super sporty and sharp.....but the rear half of the car.....looks boring and old-fashioned(not sporty)....blame the LEXUS LF concept look.....Did the Lexus engineers graduate from the Chris Bangle Design school? Attached Images __________________ 2006 E90 330i Jet Black \| 20" WORK VS-XX \| FK452 \| H&R Sport on Koni Yellow \| REMUS QUAD
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10-12-2005, 12:59 AM	#4
Robert Major General 417 Rep 6,968 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	the is350 seems like it sits much lower than the 330i.
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10-12-2005, 01:01 AM	#5
lhoboy8 Enlisted Member 2 Rep 48 Posts Drives: e90 330xi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boston iTrader: (0) Garage List 2000 323ci [0.00] 2006 330xi [0.00]	I actually think the IS is a better looking car, much better tech/options, better looking interior. I like the simpler look. But I have a BMW, have ordered a BMW, simply because of the great handling, and solid feel of a european built car. On top of that, I prefer an AWD, and the IS only has AWD on the IS250, which is far to slow for me. I feel the IS is for a much young consumer group, but it is more reliable. Regardless, I am seriously considering changing my order, but I will have to take a test drive first. The whole copycat things seems untrue. It's just industry trends. If I'm not mistaken, Mercedes came up with a "Start" button ignition or something similar earlier. AWD is just becoming prevalent for all cars in the market. And I would presume that Audi started the whole redesign concept earlier.
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10-12-2005, 01:07 AM	#6
Accounting4Speed Kind of a Big Deal 33 Rep 202 Posts Drives: 330i Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0)	BMW, it is more of a driver's car. The BMW lets you feel the road and exactly how the car is handling it, while the Lexus disconnects you from the road, think cherubs and puffy clouds. As for the stance of the IS, the picture is deceptive due to the angle, if you look at pictures of it being test driven it rides higher than the BMW. For sheer ingenuity, creativity, driving spirit and handling, you would buy the BMW. For economy, reliability and looks that will most assuradly be tired in 2 years, buy the Lexus.
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10-12-2005, 01:07 AM	#7
magmd Major General 160 Rep 5,271 Posts Drives: '06 330i Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Torrance, CA iTrader: (13) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	I don't know about the looks from the pics. When I was looking at the E90...I did not like the pics so much. I was actually looking at the new A4 as well...but that is another story. In the end, when I actually saw the E90 in person...test drove it.....no contest. Its a beauty..and sometimes pics do not do it complete justice. So...I think I just may have to see the IS in person B4 making a final decision...but so far...+/- __________________ 2006 330i \| Black Sapphire Metallic \| Step Auto \| Navi with iDr \| Sports Pkg \|OEM Rear Spoiler \| 3M CS35 Tint \| H&R Sport Springs \| Koni Yellows \| Advan RS Racing Hypersilver: 19x9 et22 19x10 et20
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10-12-2005, 01:09 AM	#8
northerncalguy Throw your hands in the air, if you's a true playa. 79 Rep 436 Posts Drives: 2006 325i, 2014 435i Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NorCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 325i [0.00]	I'll try to be as eloquent as possible and offer the following intrinsic observation: The Lexus is a formidable opponent, however, the BMW offers something that drivers cannot quantify. It's like warm apple pie, nothing like it. __________________
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10-12-2005, 01:14 AM	#9
wchew Private First Class 14 Rep 108 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (0)	lux.sh, I absolutely agree with you...and I think IS350 looks very nice as well. I got to admit that the biggest reason that I chose a 330i over IS350 is because of the "BMW" badge. I came from south east asia, where the name BMW is much much bigger than Lexus. If you switch the badge and keeps everything else the same on both car, I would most probably goes with the IS350. Yes, I am a prestige whore.
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10-12-2005, 01:34 AM	#10
lux.sh missing two turbos. 577 Rep 4,859 Posts Drives: fast around corners. Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Curves iTrader: (12) Garage List 2006 BMW E90 330i [0.00]	Good points guys. Keep them coming. I am carefully reading all the posts. Another question is, would you still have bought the 330i, if it had Lexus badge(performs as 330i should, everything same, but made by lexus)? or would you have bought the IS350 with BMW badge. __________________ 06 AW E90 330i ZPP/ZSP/Step/Expired Warranty : Prior Design Front : ACS Rear : ACS Roof : BlackLines : Simota Intake : Carbon Fiber Interior Trim : : MTEC V3 : 24% Charcoal : V1 Hardwired : Solaris Invisibulbs/LED interior :
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10-12-2005, 01:34 AM	#11
7ma? New Member 0 Rep 29 Posts Drives: e90 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	yeah i gotta agree that the is350 is pretty nice......but i actually dont like the look of it.....doesnt really stand out to me ..dunno why... on the other hand the e90 really stood out...before i went to test drive it , i "liked" the car, but after the test drive, i was in love with it...something told me that i had to have it......... I also own a TL, its a really nice car also.....but there is just something about driving and owning a bmw that makes it stand out.... i might go test drive the IS just for the hell of it, maybe i will like it more....its got all the features...but just the looks doesnt appeal to me....
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10-12-2005, 01:47 AM	#12
TwinPowerF30 Captain 38 Rep 643 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Coupe Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	anyone know the date the is350 will be released? nm saw it on that link above. The all-new IS 250 and IS 350 will be in Lexus dealer showrooms on October 14.
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10-12-2005, 01:52 AM	#13
EVO_S4 Colonel 117 Rep 2,232 Posts Drives: 2016 M3 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: TN iTrader: (28) Garage List 2016 BMW M3 [0.00] 2009 BMW [8.24]	as I said before if the IS350 was out the same time I bought my 330i it would have been a tough decision for me, but overall I am happy the my 330I __________________ 2016 M3 2016 Audi Q5 3.0T
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10-12-2005, 02:13 AM	#14
visor BMW, can I have some LSD please? 88 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: 2017 F30 340i xDrive Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	The IS350 is not going to win over any driving enthusiasts from BMW, despite being more reliable and having more power for the same money, for 2 reasons. One, no manual (for now). Two, all magazine previews so far indicate that the new IS is even more isolated from the driving experience than the E90 (which is already slightly more isolated than the previous E46). In addition, I think that the look of the new IS will not be as classic and timeless as the E90. The E90's look is designed to last for the next 7 years (in BMW's cycle), but the IS will look outdated in 4-5 years ( which is the usual Japanese car cycle).
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10-12-2005, 02:20 AM	#16
Xens Eh 108 Rep 653 Posts Drives: Is Turbo'd Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	I like the IS350 a lot as well, but the fact they are AGAIN not going to offer manual for a year at least turned me off. Other things are purely subjective: the front and rear look good but the side profile is ugly as hell and the rear view mirrors remind me of elephant ears and look awkwardly positioned. Based upon reviews from various magazines it seems like the IS is a bit too refined for my taste, most editors thought it was very quiet. Sound of the engine/drivetrain/exhaust is one of my favorite things about the BMW. Nitpicking aside, if they had offered manual I would have done some serious debate between the two.
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10-12-2005, 02:29 AM	#17
a burrito Lieutenant Colonel 56 Rep 1,962 Posts Drives: Urus, 958.2 TTS, 997 S Join Date: May 2005 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (1)	You cannot go back to japanese after driving a specific car like bmw. Its impossible. Even if the car is the most latest technology and design, it will still feel completely different from a bmw. I should know, i come from a family that has purchased over 5 lexus' in the past years and to tell you the truth they feel similar to toyotas. Its not a bad thing, but just incomparable to what bmw has going on for them. __________________ Peanut Butter Chunky
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10-12-2005, 02:45 AM	#18
Oz Lieutenant Colonel 33 Rep 1,770 Posts Drives: 2006 330i, 2004 X5 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wayne, NJ iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	Price might be a bargain but I just don't see how their body/interior is better than a E90. It just doesn't do it for me, no Lexus has... __________________ 2006 330i Steptronic/Alpine White/Black Leather/Burl Walnut Trim/Premium Package/iDrive/Heated Seats/Winter: STYLE 159 Blizzak LM-22 RFT/Summer: TBD 2004 X5 Steptronic/Alpine White/Grey Leather/Poplar Trim/Premium Package/Heated Seats/iPod Adapter
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10-12-2005, 03:08 AM	#19
ZenDriver Do Not Taunt Zen Driver. 12 Rep 466 Posts Drives: 325i w/ MT, ZSP in Graphite Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (0)	When I was in high school, one of my classmates was a piano savant. He could, by only listening to a piece of music once, reproduce it in exacting detail. When he learned how to read music, he was able to recite technically perfect, down to the inkstain, renditions of anything you put in front of him. It is a mindblowing party trick and his playing was the envy of everyone in the school. During any sort of school-wide talent performance, he was always the closing act and he just... well, let's just say that the people who were not expecting much out of a high school theater performance were amazed. Of course, I didn't have an appreciation for classical music at the time, I was mostly impressed by the trickery required to look at a piece of paper he had never seen before and his ability to render those notes into beautiful music like a dead cold professional. We remained acquaintances after high school and, in an effort to woo a girl I knew, I had him try to give me a tour of classical music. Thanks to him, I took a liking to Chopin and I picked up a couple of CDs. I realized something immediately; for all of my friend's skill, he was not a great pianist. While his renditions of notes were perfect (and, given the inner workings of the savant, I believe we are talking about a mathematically accurate definition of the word perfect) his playing lacked... something. I absolutely cannot tell you what makes my friend Ryan's playing different from say, Helene Grimaud but it surely exists and it is what separates technically adept piano players from the Grimauds, Goulds, Connicks and Reznors of the world. The skills of engineers, international labor markets, computer numerically controlled milling centers, technical parts suppliers... there are literally dozens of factors that are closing what were once the massive gaps between one manufacturer's product and another's. Where BMW once had the edge in "Sports Sedans" and Mercedes owned "Luxury Sedans" and Audi owned... what did Audi ever own? Anyhow, those lines have been blurred and the differences on paper between Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Infinity have been closed to within an inch of each other's lives. None of these companies make a crap car and it takes a racetrack and the 10/10th driving skill to tell the difference. It comes down to the X-Factor- that beautifully immeasurable difference between my friend's rendition of Piano Sonata No. 2 and Helene Grimaud playing the exact same music. It is on that level that BMW will always dominate the market. Screw the gussied up Toyota...
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10-12-2005, 03:20 AM	#20
visor BMW, can I have some LSD please? 88 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: 2017 F30 340i xDrive Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	Beautiful story! As has been said before and worth repeating: BMW is often copied, but never duplicated.
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10-12-2005, 03:30 AM	#21
Jay_328 Lieutenant Colonel 119 Rep 1,595 Posts Drives: 07 e92 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: VA iTrader: (0) Garage List 07 E92 328 [0.00]	As driving machines, neither of these cars is likely to disappoint its buyer. However I do believe the Lexus will always be behind BMW where driving dynamics are concerned. The Lexus looks good now but what about 2/3 years later. IMO, it'll appear old and familiar. Take the Altima, when it first came out that car looked really good. Now... forget about it. Same goes for the Chrysler 300M. Of course I'm a BMW fan but I also think it is just simply a better car. And it feels great driving a Bimmer as well.
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