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      01-08-2019, 12:59 PM   #89
FaRKle!
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
(unless of course you drive 50+ miles each way to work, in which case we need to talk about your other life choices).
That's pretty common in some places like the SF Bay Area (and note that bavarianride's location is NorCal). Be thankful for your cheap housing/cost of living.
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      01-08-2019, 02:30 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
That's pretty common in some places like the SF Bay Area (and note that bavarianride's location is NorCal). Be thankful for your cheap housing/cost of living.
You made me LOL. I'm in Boston.
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      01-08-2019, 03:53 PM   #91
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For those who want to stay with BMW this car should tick most of the boxes.

BMW i4:

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar180707.html
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      01-08-2019, 04:31 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by skiwhmts View Post
i4 is the electric version of G26 4GC. Everything in this article is conjecture from that simple fact mixed with old renderings and unfounded speculation.
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      03-22-2019, 01:05 PM   #93
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I've owned my Tesla Model 3 Performance since the end of 2018 (yay tax credit!) and would be happy to answer anyone's questions about the car or the ownership experience.

I agree with the OP's impressions, EXCEPT that I've always liked the Model 3's looks and still do.
(edit) - I also don't really miss having a HUD.

Before the Tesla, I owned a series of Audis, most recently a tuned '13 S6 and a lowered/tuned '11 S4. I've also run most of my cars at HPDEs, and will be doing so with the Tesla at the end of April. :-)

TL;DR - it's the best, most fun-to-drive car I've ever owned.

Last edited by ZCD1; 03-22-2019 at 02:16 PM..
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      03-22-2019, 01:32 PM   #94
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I could never get over that boring bland interior. So much cool tech and then they put zero effort on the inside. The outside is questionable.. I could probably live with it. But not a chance in hell on the inside. My 4yr olds plastic pedal car has more thought put into its dash then the current model 3.

Besides that one of two other things must happen before It'll ever be practical enough for me to use.

1: Range is so high that the probability of having to charge is basically non-existent. I drive all the time over 500 miles a day. I ain't sitting around for hours waiting for my 50k plus car to charge up partially. And I sure as hell don't want to pull up to the very limited charge stations and see a line.

2: The charge time is brought down to a level where you can fully charge the car in less than ten minutes. This won't fix the non-existent charge stations and all the problems that'll create but I might tolerate it for the sake of cool.. Maybe. Range will still suck and it'll be very inconvenient compared to an Ice car but could be fun.

Last edited by Killakittie; 03-22-2019 at 01:42 PM..
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      03-22-2019, 01:39 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakittie View Post
I could never get over that boring bland interior. So much cool tech and then they put zero effort on the inside. The outside is questionable.. I could probably live with it. But not a chance in hell on the inside. My 4yr olds plastic pedal car has more thought put into its dash then the current model 3.
A week of driving that car and you'll understand that actually _a_lot_ of thought went into making that interior.
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      03-22-2019, 01:41 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
Before the Tesla, I owned a series of Audis, most recently a tuned '13 S6 and a lowered/tuned '11 S4. I've also run most of my cars at HPDEs, and will be doing so with the Tesla at the end of April. :-)
Stock wheels, tires? I'm looking for a set that I would mostly drive in the summer but also usable at autocross, still searching for ideas.
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      03-22-2019, 01:44 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
A week of driving that car and you'll understand that actually _a_lot_ of thought went into making that interior.
I don't care what thought went into it. I'm not staring at a large flat, plastic looking dash with zero features and a touch screen slapped in the middle. It's ugly.
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      03-22-2019, 01:46 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakittie View Post
I could never get over that boring bland interior. So much cool tech and then they put zero effort on the inside. The outside is questionable.. I could probably live with it. But not a chance in hell on the inside. My 4yr olds plastic pedal car has more thought put into its dash then the current model 3.
I had similar interior gripes with with my Model S.

Some minor quirks. I ordered my car with the CF interior and it felt/look like cheap plastic. Both my F80 M3/ 2018 S5 was ordered with CF interior and they looked much better--and was real CF.

No dead pedal. Just carpet. Felt wired putting my foot where a dead pedal should be only to have carpet?!

Control stalk/windows switches came from bargain basement Mercedes parts.

No door pockets - very strange, overall very cheap and basic.

I always tell people this if they are int he market for a Tesla Model S/X

You're paying $85K for the batteries, and $15K for the car.
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      03-22-2019, 01:48 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakittie View Post
I don't care what thought went into it. I'm not staring at a large flat, plastic looking dash with zero features and a touch screen slapped in the middle. It's ugly.
When you drive, you look outside. Everything else just gets in the way.
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      03-22-2019, 01:50 PM   #100
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Car dashboards are like Blackberry keyboards.
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      03-22-2019, 02:13 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakittie View Post
I could never get over that boring bland interior...
I was also initially unsure about the interior. That feeling went away in about 3 days, once I realized that all other car interiors are needlessly complex...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakittie View Post
I drive all the time over 500 miles a day. I ain't sitting around for hours waiting for my 50k plus car to charge up partially.
Yep, that much daily driving would mean it wouldn't be as convenient for you. That said, you could do that amount daily with 2 partial charges of about 20 minutes each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakittie View Post
...The charge time is brought down to a level where you can fully charge the car in less than ten minutes.
Supercharger V3 will add 75 miles in 5 minutes, 200 miles in 15. Those are just beginning to be rolled out, but the Model 3 is prepared for that charging rate.

Few other Teslas and ZERO other BEVs currently on sale have that capability built in.

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      03-22-2019, 02:15 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Stock wheels, tires? I'm looking for a set that I would mostly drive in the summer but also usable at autocross, still searching for ideas.
Literally just ordered summer wheels today (forged and LIGHT :-) ), will be using the OEM PS4S tires. Also plan to swap to Castrol SRF brake fluid.
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      03-22-2019, 02:17 PM   #103
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I think modern, minimal dashes with digital screens are the wave of the future. It ties into Tesla's autonomous concept, which is also the wave of the future. People are always going to fight change, but it's coming.
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      03-22-2019, 04:15 PM   #104
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Best overall review of the car I've seen yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbulCM90w8w
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      03-22-2019, 04:33 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
Literally just ordered summer wheels today (forged and LIGHT :-) ), will be using the OEM PS4S tires. Also plan to swap to Castrol SRF brake fluid.
What wheels did you get? I've been looking at Fast Wheels FC04 (favored by model3ownersclub.com guys because they're local - but also good looking, good specs and inexpensive), but it's now difficult to get them from Canada over to the U.S. because Trump.
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      03-22-2019, 09:57 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
What wheels did you get? I've been looking at Fast Wheels FC04 (favored by model3ownersclub.com guys because they're local - but also good looking, good specs and inexpensive), but it's now difficult to get them from Canada over to the U.S. because Trump.
LOL - Stance SF03 - they look basically identical to those FC04s, which I hadn’t heard of until you mentioned them. Pricing is the same too.
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      03-23-2019, 08:38 AM   #107
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This is a very cool review. I am curious the bmw enthusiast perspective on the model 3 and would like to hear more of these reviews. OP please do another one when you have driven for more miles and time as well.

My opinions and expectations (as a non-model 3 owner that has never driven it, and a bmw owner for 14+ years), i am surprised you dislike the exterior so much I find it a nice sleek design although i agree the base wheels are crap. I am surprised you find the lack of a front-facing dash acceptable and having the speedo to the right acceptable, i imagine hating that. HUD as you said would be great maybe they offer it in later versions but maybe they intend to keep it as a differentiator to model S. I feel when competition arrives in the model 3 segment, it will have a front dash and or HUD, but that competition is likely a few years out. My feeling is that audi bmw Mercedes etc will start with model S competitors to test the waters

But back to the review I am surprised at the high praise on the model 3 driving and performance, so I guess tesla did make a winner in that regard, and that electrics really can be great performers.

Thanks for the review and good luck with the car
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      03-23-2019, 10:48 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by pjkbrit View Post
Nice honest review. The tech is interesting but the company is in major financial trouble and Musk is clearly nuts. I have a buddy with a model S that has been very good and it’s fun to drive but is cheaply made and I suspect won’t last 10 years like all our Beamers do unless crashed!
Keep us posted on how you get on and good luck with it!
You are probably correct about the longevity of the Tesla, however I am not sure you should be boasting about robustness of BMW. Or at least in my case; I have a 2017 440i convertible, and from day one I have been displeased with the quality of this 66k car. I have 13,600 mi on it and my OEM tires need replacing, the brakes most probably need new pads, I need to replace my windshield (it was pitted badly at 10,000 mi.; mostly street driving, very little freeway) and then I got hit with a rock, the quality of glass is poor), the quality of the paint job leaves a lot to be desired, the MPG is not as good as advertised. Sorry I traded in my C5 Corvette for this car.
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      03-23-2019, 01:58 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
This is a very cool review. I am curious the bmw enthusiast perspective on the model 3 and would like to hear more of these reviews. OP please do another one when you have driven for more miles and time as well.
Yeah, I totally forgot about this thread but now that it's been revived I can give an update.
Quote:
My opinions and expectations (as a non-model 3 owner that has never driven it, and a bmw owner for 14+ years), i am surprised you dislike the exterior so much I find it a nice sleek design although i agree the base wheels are crap.
I guess I'm just conservative about how a car should look. I like BMWs specifically because their design is more subdued these days compared to most other brands.
Quote:
I am surprised you find the lack of a front-facing dash acceptable and having the speedo to the right acceptable, i imagine hating that. HUD as you said would be great maybe they offer it in later versions but maybe they intend to keep it as a differentiator to model S. I feel when competition arrives in the model 3 segment, it will have a front dash and or HUD, but that competition is likely a few years out.
I find the Blackberry keyboard analogy highly appropriate: this is something you feel you absolutely need until someone shows you a working alternative.
Quote:
But back to the review I am surprised at the high praise on the model 3 driving and performance, so I guess tesla did make a winner in that regard, and that electrics really can be great performers.
There's more to this than just my own opinion. Just last night I stumbled on another review made by someone who did a similar thing: a long-time b-fest member voip-ninja switched from a '16 340xi to the same exact car as mine, the only difference being the white interior in his car. If you read his review (but don't go too deep into the thread because it devolved into yet another "Musk is a fraud" mess like all Tesla conversations do) you'll see many parallels in his impressions with mine. https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1295251
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      03-23-2019, 09:07 PM   #110
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Here's an update based on 7 months and 8500 miles of driving (read the top post first and then this).

The exterior has grown someone on me but I still have problems with it. It basically depends on where you're standing. Front views are better than rear. The standard suspension is too tall (and damn you SCCA for making it illegal to drop the car in Street SOLO classes). The 10mm drop of the Performance model is how all Model 3s should be. I still hate it that the car is not a hatchback, especially after seeing the Model Y that has both the hatchback and glass roof - a much better single-piece glass roof without a cross-beam in the middle. Also, for some reason this body makes it very difficult to find aftermarket wheels that would look good on it. Thin-spoked wheels so popular these days make the car look like a plus-size model wearing stiletto heels.

One other issue with that shape is that the trunk blocks the rear view and it's difficult to judge the distance to the cars behind me because I only see the top half of anything closer than 100ft, and I'm used to be concerned about any car that follows me whose headlights I can't see. So I often find myself checking the side mirrors to get a better idea what's happening there.

On the other hand, my daughter has her license now and sometimes drives the Tesla to school. It draws more appreciative looks from other kids than almost anyone else's car, even though there are quite a few seniors that drive _way_ more expensive cars that are their own, not occasional parents' loaners.

A few weeks after I picked up the car, I grew tired of looking at the larger than normal gap between the doors on the left and took the car to a Tesla service center. They kept it for a week (it actually went to a Tesla-certified bodyshop, which is one of the few in Boston that has nothing but 5 star Yelp reviews), while I drove an X loaner. When my car came back, the driver's door was repositioned properly, and I could find no other build issues with the car.

I still like the headlights of this car a lot. They are very bright, and its automatic high beams work better than my old F31's so I use them more often because I'm less concerned about bothering other drivers.

My opinion of the interior comfort has mostly improved. On the top of the list is the ability to preheat the car through the app. When I get out of the house in -15C weather to take the kids to school, I only wear a light jacket because the car is already warm - while in the F31 I would be freezing for the first five minutes or more. And even if I just jump into the car without preheating it first, warm air comes out in about 30 seconds, and the seats are warm in about a minute. Overall, between the electric heater and the genius vent design, the climate control in Model 3 is nothing short of exemplary.

Then there's all the storage space that's closer to what you find in a large American SUV. In the trunk, I found the niche where cars used to have their spares to be perfect for grocery bags. And I'm no longer annoyed by the fake leather - it's actually a nice material in its own right, and I think they just shouldn't have called it "leather". Rear passengers have more space for themselves than in F31 - it's no longer difficult to sit behind me (as a reminder, I'm 6'6"). However, as I've become more comfortable with the dynamic limits of the car, I started missing the side bolsters of BMW sport seats more and more. And as I kept tweaking my seating position I realized that I would appreciate another inch or so of the steering wheel's telescoping range.

The lack of buttons is liberating. You will not understand this until you've spent at least a few days with the car, so if you haven't please do everyone a favor and don't waste time arguing this point.

Going back to cold weather, this is where the most serious problems exist. When it's wet outside and it's above freezing during the day and below freezing overnight, you're guaranteed to have problems opening and closing the doors: handles and windows freeze. Fortunately there's a way to move the handles by knocking on them in a certain way, but windows were initially a huge pain and them became a bit less of a pain but still really annoying after a software update added preventive lowering based on outside temperature. Still, looking at my wife's 135i that also has frameless doors and never had a problem in the cold in 9 years of its life, I strongly believe Tesla should reengineer the doors and/or the window mechanism and offer a free retrofit to all current owners.

I'm really happy with the entertainment options. Or to be more precise, I have my Tunein and I don't need anything else. I just put a bunch of podcasts into the favorites and now have plenty to listen to during my commutes. Not being dependent on the phone here is a huge plus. Though my daughter only listens to the music from her phone, and she's happy with how it works too. BTW, bluetooth connections are much more reliable than BMW's, and I think audio quality is also better than H/K - though the absence of speed dependent volume adjustment is annoying.

Navigation is great, and it's gotten better since I bought the car. I'm not aware of any other built-in navigation system that's more capable without getting help from a connected smartphone.

I'm not sure what I should say about Autopilot since it's been at the center of so much scrutiny. For me, it works fine. You just need to understand its limitations. I see it as a tool that allows me to take some attention away off the road, so I can focus on a phone call or tap around on the screen in search of some new podcast or just have an easier drive home after a difficult day. In other words, don't listen to the hype, don't demand too much, and you won't be disappointed.

And once again I'm leaving the best for last: driving experience. The car does it better than anything I've owned or drove in my life. Sure, I've been in faster and better handling cars, but they would be unacceptably difficult to use as daily drivers. Model 3 is a totally civilized and comfortable commuter, but it can also perform in any situation. Knowing that the car will do what I want and when I want it is liberating. I've always been an aggressive driver, and while previously I would get a bit of adrenaline flowing in some stickier situations, with this car I'm always relaxed because I can rely on its abilities.

To be honest, when I bought the Tesla, I still hadn't decided what to do with my old F31. I loved that wagon (I built it exactly the way I wanted - MG on Cognac, ZMP, ZTR, adaptive LEDs, etc. - went to Munich to pick it up, and then drove it for three years never ever seeing another F31 that would be as good looking as mine), but then there was a week when I only drove the Tesla, then I got back into the BMW, and after a couple of miles understood that I just wouldn't be happy driving it anymore. I was now literally distressed by how unpredictably it behaved. So off it went to cars.com and CraigsList. Model 3 basically spoiled most gas cars for me. The 135i with its manual transmission is the slowest gas car I can still enjoy.

Besides spirited driving, I also want to talk about the way it handles itself in snow. Of course I put winter tires on it, and any AWD car with the right tires will do well, but then the Tesla's traction control is next level. All my knowledge of how to keep a car going in the right direction on slippery roads seems redundant now. With the Tesla, you just make sure to keep the steering wheel turned where you want to go, and the computer does a very cool little dance with brakes and motors to make sure it happens. Also, the car is RWD biased so just before the computer starts doing its job you can kick the rear out just for fun if you want it. But if that gets too out of hand, the car cuts power to the rear, powers the front to pull you out, and taps the rear brakes on each side in turn to make sure the rear stays in the track.

Finally, let me be a greedy bastard for a second: if you found value in my reviews and if you or someone you know does decide to buy a Tesla, I would appreciate a PM so I could give you my referral code.
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