[limeypride]

Originally Posted by vtknight

"Pimpsy". I am going to answer your post inline, in RED.

Putting aside the somewhat rude tone Fair point - I find your tone whiny and entitled - unnecessarily soof your initial reply to my post, as an example, the numbers published by RC not only lack detail for various maps and settings but apparently are far, far off from real world experiences of various members.
I have went over this already. These are beta tunes. The platform has not been out long enough yet to get enough data for consistent alpha products. This has happened for literally every platform. I am not sure if you are someone with experience modding, but if you were - you would know that. The "far far off" comment also makes me question your experience as DA, track, driver, car condition, tires and a few others makes consistent ET and MPH almost impossible to quantify - unless they are same day, track, driver, car and conditions.
Some have called them out right lies, I will generously call them simply not accurate. I would call them incomplete. I still have no idea why you think the maturity of the product should be as high as you expect it.
To complicate matters, various members have themselves posted numbers which are wildly inconsistent. In fact, I have seen the same member post radically different numbers even the same thread which not only makes little sense but just further confuses what should not be a very complicated thing to suss out. It makes total sense - please see variable explanation above.
You can be assured that if I had any real world experience with any of these tunes, I would publish my own personal experience in great detail in the hopes that it might help someone. I would suggest more of the personal experience idea as it will help with some of your confusion. In fact, I often share the experience I do have, such as it is, toward that end. That is what community boards are for - to share information and help the community - usually by doing. Complaining about it - not so much.
To answer your question of why I am not collating this data myself, I'm not going to disseminate information that I can't verify and don't trust to begin with. This makes no sense. At all. The ONLY way to disseminate information - that is trust worthy to you - is to do it yourself. DO some testing. GO to a track. Make some runs, both before and after a tune - same day if possible. Then you will know. You will not need to depend on any other source. As your variables for you will differ from others experiences. Now you may not want to do that - spend the money and time in order to provide that information to the community - and that is fine. Just don't complain about it - because no one owes you anything.
To me, this all seems quite reasonable. If this somehow seems unreasonable to you, I'll respect your right to form your own opinion. But your disrespectful tone is uncalled for and certainly says more about you than the veracity of my opinions. I believe my opinions have helped to prove your opinions are flawed. Since opinions are subjective - we will likely never see eye to eye there. As to my tone - I can only state that whining and complaining when someone isn't producing anything of value themselves - is a sore spot for me.

I guess it's my turn to say, "I should've read the thread."

[Pimpsy]

Read my original post. Do you think that's worthy of being called out in a rude juvenile fashion in this forum? Because I think manufactures should supply more and better data regarding their products? That I'm surprised more gearheads don't post dyno data?

You both sound like a couple of self-important assholes. Extended redline shitty high school reply? Really? Sorry to interrupt your private circle jerk and good luck with that.

My final thoughts.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Pimpsy

Read my original post. Do you think that's worthy of being called out in a rude juvenile fashion in this forum? Because I think manufactures should supply more and better data regarding their products? That I'm surprised more gearheads don't post dyno data?

You both sound like a couple of self-important assholes. Extended redline shitty high school reply? Really? Sorry to interrupt your private circle jerk and good luck with that.

My final thoughts.

Tsk. Tsk. Now THAT was rude.

Good to know they are your final thoughts though.

Have a positive night.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Pimpsy

Read my original post. Do you think that's worthy of being called out in a rude juvenile fashion in this forum? Because I think manufactures should supply more and better data regarding their products? That I'm surprised more gearheads don't post dyno data?

You both sound like a couple of self-important assholes. Extended redline shitty high school reply? Really? Sorry to interrupt your private circle jerk and good luck with that.

My final thoughts.

I thought I was direct but far from juvenile... quite eloquent actually having read it back now. You refuse to integrate the counterpoints to your position. C'est la vie.

'Juvenile' and I have remained quite tight… so that's Mr. A'r'sehole to you.

[josec70]

Next ....

[soooma]

Originally Posted by josec70

Next ....

Talk hijack

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by soooma

Talk hijack

Sigh, happens to the best of us.

// dragging the topic back into the limelight

Here are some numbers from the Dragy leaderboard. While less relevant but cool, nonetheless, are the 0-60mph numbers. Realistically, though, there are just too many variables to take much away from these results. That said, 5th and 6th place are both JB4. In 10th spot is a Racechip-tuned M5.


9th place, 13th, 18th (10.60s) and 20th (10.61s) place are all JB4s. I didn't find any Racechip-tuned vehicles on the Dragy 1/4 mile leaderboard. // correction, I found two in 25th and 27th place: 10.77s @129.45mph and 10.78s @ 128.69mph


This is my combined best-result from a DynoPack hub dyno with the JB4 on map 2 @22psi absolute boost target on 92 octane pump gas (I was unable to use the better maps due to an as yet unresolved software glitch). We spent 2+ hours tinkering with the setup including using the M5's dyno mode. Note also and as I mentioned earlier, we never did get a reasonable read while stock so these numbers are close to meaningless. I'll be returning once I've got the car back.


If you're interested, you activate dyno mode as follows:

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Sigh, happens to the best of us.

// dragging the topic back into the limelight

Here are some numbers from the Dragy leaderboard. While less relevant but cool, nonetheless, are the 0-60mph numbers. Realistically, though, there are just too many variables to take much away from these results. That said, 5th and 6th place are both JB4. In 10th spot is a Racechip-tuned M5.
Attachment 1990345

9th place, 13th, 18th (10.60s) and 20th (10.61s) place are all JB4s. I didn't find any Racechip-tuned vehicles on the Dragy 1/4 mile leaderboard. // correction, I found two in 25th and 27th place: 10.77s @129.45mph and 10.78s @ 128.69mph
Attachment 1990347

This is my combined best-result from a DynoPack hub dyno with the JB4 on map 2 @22psi absolute boost target on 92 octane pump gas (I was unable to use the better maps due to an as yet unresolved software glitch). We spent 2+ hours tinkering with the setup including using the M5's dyno mode. Note also and as I mentioned earlier, we never did get a reasonable read while stock so these numbers are close to meaningless. I'll be returning once I've got the car back.
Attachment 1990346

If you're interested, you activate dyno mode as follows:
Attachment 1990348

Pump gas vs Race Gas baby. I've used both on different platforms. It's a different world. On my logging, 21-22psi on pump 93 doesn't pull any timing...beyond that I would use Boostane and relog or Race Gas. Powerwise, 21-22 on RC, JB4, OnfirePiggy, etc will make the same power....when you leave pump...JB4 for the win...or a flash plus JB4 as a map controller....

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Pump gas vs Race Gas baby. I've used both on different platforms. It's a different world. On my logging, 21-22psi on pump 93 doesn't pull any timing...beyond that I would use Boostane and relog or Race Gas. Powerwise, 21-22 on RC, JB4, OnfirePiggy, etc will make the same power....when you leave pump...JB4 for the win...or a flash plus JB4 as a map controller....

Thanks.

I've used 104 octane race gas in my RS7 with APR stage 2--made a world of difference. I just have one helluva hard time getting race gas here in WA. I've bought the dreaded snake oil octane boosters including boostane and the orange and white can with Race Gas written on it; I forget the brand unless that's it.

The M5 definitely made more power on map 6 but I broke things following a round of E-Sys coding. In short, the JB4 can no longer talk to the ECU via the OBD II port which forces me back to map 1. The car's being re-flashed e2e, though, as part of the repairs so I'm hoping that restores the JB4.

My seat-of-the-pants dyno was happy but without objective "stock" numbers, I can't place any credence in the DynoPack numbers. C'est la vie... my wait's almost over.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Sigh, happens to the best of us.

// dragging the topic back into the limelight

Here are some numbers from the Dragy leaderboard. While less relevant but cool, nonetheless, are the 0-60mph numbers. Realistically, though, there are just too many variables to take much away from these results. That said, 5th and 6th place are both JB4. In 10th spot is a Racechip-tuned M5.
Attachment 1990345

9th place, 13th, 18th (10.60s) and 20th (10.61s) place are all JB4s. I didn't find any Racechip-tuned vehicles on the Dragy 1/4 mile leaderboard. // correction, I found two in 25th and 27th place: 10.77s @129.45mph and 10.78s @ 128.69mph
Attachment 1990347

This is my combined best-result from a DynoPack hub dyno with the JB4 on map 2 @22psi absolute boost target on 92 octane pump gas (I was unable to use the better maps due to an as yet unresolved software glitch). We spent 2+ hours tinkering with the setup including using the M5's dyno mode. Note also and as I mentioned earlier, we never did get a reasonable read while stock so these numbers are close to meaningless. I'll be returning once I've got the car back.
Attachment 1990346

If you're interested, you activate dyno mode as follows:
Attachment 1990348

On the leaderboard doesn't mean that you are good.
It just meant that those guys have plenty of ego and time on their hand to do those runs to up their time.
A lot of good player or race driver are keeping things to themselves.

Besides, we don't know the exact detail on what the car's configuration but the elevation, temp, and some other variables that can be collected by the device itself.
It can have different injector, race fuel, catless, driver's weight, etc.

To put it to rest, if you are going for JB4, you are half-way between Flash Tune and Simple Plug-N-Play piggy. I would just spend the money for Flash Tune since it will have better output than the JB4.
But, for something easy to use for DD, RaceChip is plenty.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

On the leaderboard doesn't mean that you are good.
It just meant that those guys have plenty of ego and time on their hand to do those runs to up their time.
A lot of good player or race driver are keeping things to themselves.

Besides, we don't know the exact detail on what the car's configuration but the elevation, temp, and some other variables that can be collected by the device itself.
It can have different injector, race fuel, catless, driver's weight, etc.

To put it to rest, if you are going for JB4, you are half-way between Flash Tune and Simple Plug-N-Play piggy. I would just spend the money for Flash Tune since it will have better output than the JB4.
But, for something easy to use for DD, RaceChip is plenty.

Eh. People putting time into the track isn't necessarily an "ego" or "too much time on their hands" scenario. People wanting to get the best out of their cars and setups is literally called drag racing and lots of people enjoy it - including myself.

And saying that doesn't necessarily mean they are good - being on the leader board - that may be so - but until someone does better they are the best known times. We have all discussed the fact that there are multiple factors and variables involved in the cars, fuel, DA and track - but again - that is common for all platforms and for all testing. I much rather support someone who goes to the track, races, and gathers actual data then for someone to tell me that there may be other cars and setups out there that are better. Proven pretty much means everything in racing.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

On the leaderboard doesn't mean that you are good.
It just meant that those guys have plenty of ego and time on their hand to do those runs to up their time.
A lot of good player or race driver are keeping things to themselves.

Besides, we don't know the exact detail on what the car's configuration but the elevation, temp, and some other variables that can be collected by the device itself.
It can have different injector, race fuel, catless, driver's weight, etc.

To put it to rest, if you are going for JB4, you are half-way between Flash Tune and Simple Plug-N-Play piggy. I would just spend the money for Flash Tune since it will have better output than the JB4.
But, for something easy to use for DD, RaceChip is plenty.

My guess is you sell the RC--I'm happy to be told otherwise. And please explain why the JB is halfway between a flash and a piggyback? I can physically disconnect it at anytime I like... just like the RC (I assume).

That said, if I wasn't already financially invested and happy with my JB4 purchase, I'd be all over the RC--my bias begins and ends with what I've already purchased. The RC is more than credible in my mind based on the reviews of those "I" trust. Your comments are not.

So, describe to me your first-hand experience between the two. Describe to me the difference between their respective installation requirements which you imply as a differentiator when they're the same for the same performance gains.

I'm guilty of side-tracking this thread with my limited ability to provide only one-sided data... but I've been transparent about that (bias?) from the start. You, however, are perverting the course of this exploration by emphasizing the gaps in the data that is presented without presenting any affirmative data to support your position.

So what motivates such an opinion; such strong language. That's rhetorical... I already know as I guess do others.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by vtknight

And saying that doesn't necessarily mean they are good - being on the leader board - that may be so - but until someone does better they are the best known times. We have all discussed the fact that there are multiple factors and variables involved in the cars, fuel, DA and track - but again - that is common for all platforms and for all testing. I much rather support someone who goes to the track, races, and gathers actual data then for someone to tell me that there may be other cars and setups out there that are better. Proven pretty much means everything in racing.

I agree with that. But not everyone with the best setup is willing to put it out out there and reveal all of their secret.

Originally Posted by limeypride

My guess is you sell the RC--I'm happy to be told otherwise. And please explain why the JB is halfway between a flash and a piggyback? I can physically disconnect it at anytime I like... just like the RC (I assume).

That said, if I wasn't already financially invested and happy with my JB4 purchase, I'd be all over the RC--my bias begins and ends with what I've already purchased. The RC is more than credible in my mind based on the reviews of those "I" trust. Your comments are not.

So, describe to me your first-hand experience between the two. Describe to me the difference between their respective installation requirements which you imply as a differentiator when they're the same for the same performance gains.

I'm guilty of side-tracking this thread with my limited ability to provide only one-sided data... but I've been transparent about that (bias?) from the start. You, however, are perverting the course of this exploration by emphasizing the gaps in the data that is presented without presenting any affirmative data to support your position.

So what motivates such an opinion; such strong language. That's rhetorical... I already know as I guess do others.

Yes, I sell RaceChip, Dinan, AC Schnitzer, and other good quality products that I trust both in quality, performance, and great company and engineer behind it.

I've dealt with BMS and their Stage 1, JB4 Stage 2, and other of their products.
There are many reasons that I won't discuss publicly why I stop offering their products.
Based on what your reply, it seems that there is misunderstanding on my statement.
Simple Plug-N-Play Piggies are considered a stage 1 simple tuning.
While JB4 Stage 2 is in between Flash Tune and Stage 1, because it tries to trick multiple sensors and reading data from the OBD2 connection.
It was a good solution before Flash Tune is available.
But since now flash tune is available, it is much much better solution than tricking a bunch of sensors.
One mis reading or mis tricking a sensor, many things will go wrong.

You can judge me all you want.
I am here to share as much information as I can.
I have typed but I deleted them since there is no need for me to explain myself.
Others who dealt with me and met me knows what's up.

Too bad I don't do drag racing, otherwise I'll have a lot of data to share.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

I agree with that. But not everyone with the best setup is willing to put it out out there and reveal all of their secret.


Yes, I sell RaceChip, Dinan, AC Schnitzer, and other good quality products that I trust both in quality, performance, and great company and engineer behind it.

I've dealt with BMS and their Stage 1, JB4 Stage 2, and other of their products.
There are many reasons that I won't discuss publicly why I stop offering their products.
Based on what your reply, it seems that there is misunderstanding on my statement.
Simple Plug-N-Play Piggies are considered a stage 1 simple tuning.
While JB4 Stage 2 is in between Flash Tune and Stage 1, because it tries to trick multiple sensors and reading data from the OBD2 connection.
It was a good solution before Flash Tune is available.
But since now flash tune is available, it is much much better solution than tricking a bunch of sensors.
One mis reading or mis tricking a sensor, many things will go wrong.

You can judge me all you want.
I am here to share as much information as I can.
I have typed but I deleted them since there is no need for me to explain myself.
Others who dealt with me and met me knows what's up.

Too bad I don't do drag racing, otherwise I'll have a lot of data to share.

Again - racers race. People who "keep secrets" and don't race - unless they are grudge racers - cannot chime in. People who want to keep it to themselves and enjoy the performance on their own are welcome that - but being fair - unless they tested it - how would they know it's better or the best? Dyno's are a before and after tool - so that isn't an answer. Track - MPH at the very least - to know what the car is capable of. ET to create a record or standard. I have owned cars I do not want to break with repeated testing to get an ET - and I know enough that the MPH will tell me everything as to what the car could do it I repeatedly beat on it to find out (so I don't need to do it). But not going to the track is not an option - because I only trust what real world data can show me and not what any Tuner or Shop tells me (and I am a part of some of the best Shops in the World - and they would not want it any other way - they prove out their builds on their own).

I have no dog in this race as I am fortunate to have cars I race and my daily won't be touched. But JB4 is a pretty big name - so while I am sure there are always horror stories with every product - it's no more or less than any other. And all platforms continue to evolve - so what may have happened to you before is now addressed.

Either way - at least from the owners contributing to this thread - some of the JB4 results are quite promising. I do hope you, your Shop and your customers share their experiences - as more actual data is very welcome in this thread.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Again - racers race. People who "keep secrets" and don't race - unless they are grudge racers - cannot chime in. People who want to keep it to themselves and enjoy the performance on their own are welcome that - but being fair - unless they tested it - how would they know it's better or the best? Dyno's are a before and after tool - so that isn't an answer. Track - MPH at the very least - to know what the car is capable of. ET to create a record or standard. I have owned cars I do not want to break with repeated testing to get an ET - and I know enough that the MPH will tell me everything as to what the car could do it I repeatedly beat on it to find out (so I don't need to do it). But not going to the track is not an option - because I only trust what real world data can show me and not what any Tuner or Shop tells me (and I am a part of some of the best Shops in the World - and they would not want it any other way - they prove out their builds on their own).

I have no dog in this race as I am fortunate to have cars I race and my daily won't be touched. But JB4 is a pretty big name - so while I am sure there are always horror stories with every product - it's no more or less than any other. And all platforms continue to evolve - so what may have happened to you before is now addressed.

Either way - at least from the owners contributing to this thread - some of the JB4 results are quite promising. I do hope you, your Shop and your customers share their experiences - as more actual data is very welcome in this thread.

You are a stand up guy from all that Ive read and learned from.

I will say this about Ben aka r33_RGSport - I have not only done business with him but have met him several times. He is about as humble as it gets and really goes out of his way to help myself and many referrals. Im NOT saying this to discount what you said or what Dean (Limey) typed but just to say Ive put a face to the name here and often in this type of medium we just dont get the pleasure of doing so.

Ben hooked me up with the RC because he was first on the scene with the piggy (RC was first and JB wasnt out)... we have a few others here that have met up with him as well along with seasoned members like onfireX5 . I just like the option I had at the time but have no doubt JB4 can deliver more with the right fuel and mapping.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Vic55

You are a stand up guy from all that Ive read and learned from.

I will say this about Ben aka r33_RGSport - I have not only done business with him but have met him several times. He is about as humble as it gets and really goes out of his way to help myself and many referrals. Im NOT saying this to discount what you said or what Dean (Limey) typed but just to say Ive put a face to the name here and often in this type of medium we just dont get the pleasure of doing so.

Ben hooked me up with the RC because he was first on the scene with the piggy (RC was first and JB wasnt out)... we have a few others here that have met up with him as well along with seasoned members like onfireX5 . I just like the option I had at the time but have no doubt JB4 can deliver more with the right fuel and mapping.

Thanks for the context, Vic!

I've already said more than enough on this thread so I'll consider my point "well and truly made" and leave things at that.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Thanks for the context, Vic!

I've already said more than enough on this thread so I'll consider my opinion "well and truly made" and leave things at that.

Thanks now go back to the hotel room, alone, and watch DD.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Thanks now go back to the hotel room, alone, and watch DD.

You're never going to let that go, are you!

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by limeypride

You're never going to let that go, are you!

Never ever ever ever.

You scarred me with that back in the day so why should I be the only one to suffer?

Edit: I am nice enough to keep the details out

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

You are a stand up guy from all that Ive read and learned from.

I will say this about Ben aka r33_RGSport - I have not only done business with him but have met him several times. He is about as humble as it gets and really goes out of his way to help myself and many referrals. Im NOT saying this to discount what you said or what Dean (Limey) typed but just to say Ive put a face to the name here and often in this type of medium we just dont get the pleasure of doing so.

Ben hooked me up with the RC because he was first on the scene with the piggy (RC was first and JB wasnt out)... we have a few others here that have met up with him as well along with seasoned members like onfireX5 . I just like the option I had at the time but have no doubt JB4 can deliver more with the right fuel and mapping.

Thanks Vic - I am not discounted or arguing with anything Ben said. I am simply stating that I am into the data - and the more accurate data the better. I am sure Ben has a great deal of experience.

But similar to the other guy who was complaining about there not being enough info or accurate enough for his expectations, while everyone is trying to learn this new platform and some of the available tools - I would prefer some addition to this info versus stating that what we see today may not be all there is out there (which of course will always be true).

No stress from me.

[marcvtec]

interesting read.

The only thing I care about is how much the low and high fuel pumps can flow.
And how much additional boost can the stock turbos take before losing efficiency and wear and tear.

This platform is still very new, and hence I will wait to see more data when it arrives.

As for tuning, IMO, once your done with your bolt ons - a custom flash is the way to go, as all these (piggy's just ride the knock sensor).