11-08-2018, 07:40 PM | #1 |
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Transmission feel: F10 M5 DCT vs. F90 M5 ZF AT
I'm interested in hearing how people feel about this with the F90 M5 now using the ZF8. I really haven't seen a comparison on youtube for just the transmission feel.
Anybody driven both F10 and F90? |
11-08-2018, 08:53 PM | #2 |
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I'll be curious to hear responses.
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11-09-2018, 05:34 AM | #3 |
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The ZF8 is smoother shifting, but you loose the more aggressive throttle blip on the downshift that I loved with the F10s DCT.
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11-09-2018, 12:34 PM | #4 |
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^^^this^^^
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11-09-2018, 04:28 PM | #5 |
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given that that F90 did not come with dct, the ZF is still fairly good.
Yes a manual would be king, and at times more fun, sometimes I wonder, I'm too old for that crap. Same with the DCT, it is clunky, and at times had or has a mind of it own. my 2 cents. M5 is a gentlemen sports car, period. At least that how I see it. |
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11-11-2018, 10:26 PM | #6 |
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I was worried about how it would feel, going from an F10 to the F90.
Honestly, I do not miss anything about the DCT! The smoothness of the ZF is incredible. It shifts just as fast, is smoother from a stop, has better gearing for the engine, and feels like a beautiful fit for this motor compared to the F10. I love the Auto H, and that when you turn off/on the car, it auto engages/disengages the parking break. The transmission tuning is FAR superior. In D2 mode and Sport throttle, it seems to anticipate which gear I want to be in way way better than the DCT. It's like its reading my mind. I can hear and feel the car upshifting to a lower gear as I'm breaking into a corner, and upon exit it always nails the right gear. The F10 always felt likt it never found the right gear, and in D3, the F10 would hold 2nd gear way, way too long. All around, there is nothing I miss from the F10, especially not in the drivetrain. |
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01-12-2019, 10:11 PM | #7 |
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I don't miss the DCT one but which in and of itself is a statement for the ZF, it's good enough that you will forget it's bit DCT but forget the kick in your back between shifts
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01-14-2019, 01:46 PM | #8 | |
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01-15-2019, 11:09 AM | #10 |
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ZF is awesome for everyday driving, smooth, fast and quiet, I find myself just leaving it in AUTO mode. DCT is engaging but you really have to put in MANUAL mode to get its benefits and I used to hate leaving it in AUTO mode.
Overall I also do prefer the ZF especially on the M5. With that being said I would pick the M2 ONLY in a DCT over a traditional manual transmission and a ZF if that was offered but for a big sports sedan like the M5 I have to say that BMW did the right thing going with a ZF!
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01-15-2019, 01:46 PM | #11 |
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No more swapping out burnt clutches on the F90 M5!
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01-18-2019, 02:17 PM | #12 |
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02-05-2019, 02:26 PM | #13 |
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DCT best if you primarily track the car. If it is mostly a daily driver ZF. I would guess that most people drive their M5 at 8/10 - 9/10. The DCT makes more sense in a M2,M3 or M4 which are more suited for the track. I don't mean to suggest that M5 is not a capable track performer but the others lighter and more agile. Just my 2 cents
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02-06-2019, 12:00 AM | #14 | |
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I haven't yet gotten over just how amazing the car is overall. It's a true, worthy evolution of the F10 and just a magnificent piece of kit...I couldn't be happier.
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02-10-2019, 03:13 PM | #15 | |
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There's no need to mimic auto-tranny behaviors like the DCTs did because they're obviously natively there now... however, BMW still chose to. Creep mode (which can describe most of us that drive these cars I'm told) is still there. In addition, like the DCT, this transmission doesn't kick down in manual mode when you push through the detent. However, and again just like the DCT, push through the detent and pull the downshift paddle and it shifts to the lowest possible gear. My point: if you've driven the DCT, the ZF's software causes it to behave almost identically. In Sport modes, upshifts are just about as fast. Where it tends to get stuck for a 1/10th or two are the aggressive downshifts... and I think I've noticed a tendency for that to worsen when shifting down whilst pulling some lateral Gs. Overall, I'm very happy with it. |
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02-11-2019, 03:04 PM | #16 | ||
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02-13-2019, 12:01 AM | #18 | |
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PS: have you driven one of the new M5s? |
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02-16-2019, 06:00 PM | #19 | |
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02-16-2019, 06:30 PM | #20 |
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If I could trade the DCT in my F80 for the zf I would in a second. I think the dct is clunky, has some very strange behavioral characteristics and generally is highly overrated on these forums... it's not awful but I don't see it as the gem that others do.
Go drive a Porsche PDK and you see how good it can be. |
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02-18-2019, 01:56 AM | #21 |
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Manual shifting (especially downshift) requires some serious work if they ever want to plant Zfat on M3s. Primary reason why F90 M5s just feel like a tuned up 550i compared to F10 M5s which felt like r8ped apes in a good way
BMW is just being lazy not developing standalone DCTs for full M cars regardless of M xDrive. Smooth shifts and luxury are not what M cars are about.. |
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02-18-2019, 10:48 AM | #22 | |
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I agree with you for the M2/M3/M4--they're far more laser-focused on the raw driving experience. However, performance and luxury (which incudes smooth shifts in normal driving) are exactly what the M5 is about--what's why I bought it... and my E63S (and, among other things, got rid of the E63S because I didn't like the rough-as-nails transmission). My RS7 also departed in part because of the transmission but, in that car's case, its ZF fully supports all of your concerns--it was tedious, fussy and labored/slow between shifts (unless you were in AMAX mode which only works from launches). The ZF in the M5 is not. |
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