[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by KoenG

There are some new opportunities also, which can reduce the gap substantially:
1. You can use the battery as being part of the chassis, providing more rigidity at least when you design the chassis as full EV from the start.
2. Electrical engines have a higher output to weight ratio and you can ditch the transmission entirely.
3. For full torque vectoring, no smart clutches and LSDs required either.
4. New battery technology promises more kWh/kg also.

Full EV is a new paradigm and they still have to learn to play it well. Also mass production will enable much novelties at low costs!

Tesla is a full EV and they use bare bones interiors and have the build quality of a Buick but they still weigh a lot. Out of what you stated, improved battery energy density is pretty much the only real way to make any improvements.

[stein_325i]

The Model S and X are heavy, however the Model 3 in both Short and Long Range form are less than 100lbs within the weight of an equivalent 3-series (30i and 40i). Even now with the G80's increased weight, the Performance trim Model 3 is not much heavier.

Same thing for the Model Y and X3, not too much heavier.

[Soul_Glo]

Schmokin'

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

Tesla is a full EV and they use bare bones interiors and have the build quality of a Buick but they still weigh a lot. Out of what you stated, improved battery energy density is pretty much the only real way to make any improvements.

Tesla has indeed genuine EV platform, but I don't believe that Tesla was able to develop all potential improvements that this new platform brings as from their first vehicles. I hope that there is still some engineering margin for the coming generations EVs, besides the battery energy density alone.

[Greer]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Tesla has indeed genuine EV platform, but I don't believe that Tesla was able to develop all potential improvements that this new platform brings as from their first vehicles. I hope that there is still some engineering margin for the coming generations EVs, besides the battery energy density alone.

There's a BMW electric SUV the IX that was announced. Can't wait to see it in person.

[GerryM5]

Originally Posted by themnmd

Love this 2021 M5C LCI. It's the last great M5 generation and no tunes or aftermarket stuff are required. Total fun car to drive. The torque and HP of electrics are promising , "but come on man," the full sensory thrill of hearing the beautiful sounds this M5C LSI can not be match by an EV. I'm not saying EV aren't fun but I enjoy a more complete sensory experience. Along those lines, it's the best looking M5 since the E39. It's not as stealthy as the E39 but this car more uniquely beautiful than the E39. The Industrial Design team evolved the exterior design into a classic. The rear bumper/defuser could have paid more homage to the past IMHO. The interior design just doesn't quite have the aggressive refinement of the exterior. These very two minor points are very slight misses. Kudos to the Engineering team and to The ID team.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by GerryM5

Love this 2021 M5C LCI. It's the last great M5 generation and no tunes or aftermarket stuff are required. Total fun car to drive. The torque and HP of electrics are promising , "but come on man," the full sensory thrill of hearing the beautiful sounds this M5C LSI can not be match by an EV. I'm not saying EV aren't fun but I enjoy a more complete sensory experience. Along those lines, it's the best looking M5 since the E39. It's not as stealthy as the E39 but this car more uniquely beautiful then the E39. The Industrial Design team evolved the exterior design into a classic. The rear bumper/defuser could have paid more homage to the past IMHO. The interior design just doesn't quite have the aggressive refinement of the exterior. These very two minor points are very slight misses. Kudos to the Engineering team and to The ID team.

This is what people say about every Generation... lol

I just remember once BMW switched from a V10 to a BIT V8 and people been complaining...not that long ago. Now it's the last great M5? How do you know without knowing what is in the pipeline besides the rumors?

Btw...the FAKE sound is just horrible compared to the E60 M5.

[GerryM5]

So far BMW has branded their EV's and Hybrids with an preceding "i" to the model number were as their combustion engine only cars are never branded that way. Still, I would be very happy to amend my previous statement if BMW releases additional generations of petrol only based M5's.

IMHO, my two top M5's are the E39 and this 2021 M5's LCI released to USA markets. Ibase this on my personal experience owning 3 M5's generations and reading what automotive writers have ranked M5's. There's always room for other opinions that I respect.

Long live M5's

[Greer]

Originally Posted by GerryM5

Love this 2021 M5C LCI. It's the last great M5 generation and no tunes or aftermarket stuff are required. Total fun car to drive. The torque and HP of electrics are promising , "but come on man," the full sensory thrill of hearing the beautiful sounds this M5C LSI can not be match by an EV. I'm not saying EV aren't fun but I enjoy a more complete sensory experience. Along those lines, it's the best looking M5 since the E39. It's not as stealthy as the E39 but this car more uniquely beautiful then the E39. The Industrial Design team evolved the exterior design into a classic. The rear bumper/defuser could have paid more homage to the past IMHO. The interior design just doesn't quite have the aggressive refinement of the exterior. These very two minor points are very slight misses. Kudos to the Engineering team and to The ID team.

I owned an E39 M5 and I agree with you 100%.

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by KoenG

It will most probably have the powerline of the upcoming X8M, including the V8. Combined output 750hp expected.

Originally Posted by KoenG

It will most probably have the powerline of the upcoming X8M, including the V8. Combined output 750hp expected.

So a stock car will be coming with 750hp? Wow, a stage 1 tune on that will be 900hp.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by SatinblkF90

So a stock car will be coming with 750hp? Wow, a stage 1 tune on that will be 900hp.

Yeah... and it'll crack 10s, too, in the 1/4 mile.

// private joke'ish but I think I misinterpreted your response elsewhere, apologies, Mr. Satin Black. My bad.

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by danf72

For a relatively heavy car like the M5, I don't see much downside to EV. You can keep the weight about the same, lower the center of gravity and make it even faster. Just don't make it look like a weird electric car. The normal M5 look will do. And a 300+ mile range to be credible.

Originally Posted by KoenG

It will most probably have the powerline of the upcoming X8M, including the V8. Combined output 750hp expected.

Originally Posted by danf72

For a relatively heavy car like the M5, I don't see much downside to EV. You can keep the weight about the same, lower the center of gravity and make it even faster. Just don't make it look like a weird electric car. The normal M5 look will do. And a 300+ mile range to be credible.

Who said anything about the next m5 being full EV? I thought before everyone was saying it would be a plug in hybrid PHEV so which direction are we heading?

Seems more logical sense to have an option of choosing electric, or gas, or both together in. PHEV than full EV.

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Yeah... and it'll crack 10s, too, in the 1/4 mile.

// private joke'ish but I think I misinterpreted your response elsewhere, apologies, Mr. Satin Black. My bad.

Originally Posted by KoenG

It will most probably have the powerline of the upcoming X8M, including the V8. Combined output 750hp expected.

Originally Posted by danf72

For a relatively heavy car like the M5, I don't see much downside to EV. You can keep the weight about the same, lower the center of gravity and make it even faster. Just don't make it look like a weird electric car. The normal M5 look will do. And a 300+ mile range to be credible.

Originally Posted by limeypride

Yeah... and it'll crack 10s, too, in the 1/4 mile.

// private joke'ish but I think I misinterpreted your response elsewhere, apologies, Mr. Satin Black. My bad.

LOL actually it may just do 10.0 bone stock because of electric assist, so imagine a JB4. I reckon 9.0.

[GerryM5]

That may happen but let's enjoy this 2021 M5C LSI for just a little bit more. These 1/4 mike times are sick.

[///WeissBisBlau]

Originally Posted by GerryM5

That may happen but let's enjoy thi 2021 M5C LSI for just a little bit more. These 1/4 mike times are sick.

Thank you! All this EV talk makes me depressed!

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by SatinblkF90

Who said anything about the next m5 being full EV? I thought before everyone was saying it would be a plug in hybrid PHEV so which direction are we heading?

Seems more logical sense to have an option of choosing electric, or gas, or both together in. PHEV than full EV.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/bmw/m5/

Apparently as from 2024 first as PHEV with V8 and 750hp and a few years later as full BEV with 1000hp.

[Eran1420]

insane

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by KoenG

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/bmw/m5/

Apparently as from 2024 first as PHEV with V8 and 750hp and a few years later as full BEV with 1000hp.

Originally Posted by KoenG

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/bmw/m5/

Apparently as from 2024 first as PHEV with V8 and 750hp and a few years later as full BEV with 1000hp.

So is the BEV the same generation as next m5 or is that the next model after the next as in 2 generations from the current f90?

Reading the article it makes it sound that they are releasing both versions along side each other at the same time.

[Lawguy]

Originally Posted by GerryM5

Love this 2021 M5C LCI. It's the last great M5 generation and no tunes or aftermarket stuff are required. Total fun car to drive. The torque and HP of electrics are promising , "but come on man," the full sensory thrill of hearing the beautiful sounds this M5C LSI can not be match by an EV. I'm not saying EV aren't fun but I enjoy a more complete sensory experience. Along those lines, it's the best looking M5 since the E39. It's not as stealthy as the E39 but this car more uniquely beautiful than the E39. The Industrial Design team evolved the exterior design into a classic. The rear bumper/defuser could have paid more homage to the past IMHO. The interior design just doesn't quite have the aggressive refinement of the exterior. These very two minor points are very slight misses. Kudos to the Engineering team and to The ID team.

Spot on. I really wanted to spec out an LCI for myself.

I do love Joe Achilles and his enthusiasm. I love when he’s on the track and keeps saying “what a machine” over and over. LOL. His review of the B7 was fantastic and what led me to find/buy one

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by SatinblkF90

So is the BEV the same generation as next m5 or is that the next model after the next as in 2 generations from the current f90?

Reading the article it makes it sound that they are releasing both versions along side each other at the same time.

Yes, that's how I read it also, next gen is PHEV and BEV.

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Yes, that's how I read it also, next gen is PHEV and BEV.

Originally Posted by KoenG

Yes, that's how I read it also, next gen is PHEV and BEV.

My prediction is stock to stock BEV will be faster, but with tuning potential on the gas engine for the PHEV, it can be made to outperform the BEV which does not have that, and because of the extra weight. Just a guess.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by SatinblkF90

My prediction is stock to stock BEV will be faster, but with tuning potential on the gas engine for the PHEV, it can be made to outperform the BEV which does not have that, and because of the extra weight. Just a guess.

That indeed might be the case. The PHEV still packs a massive V8 which is a an atypical big ICE to be put in such a configuration.

We probably have to wait for the announcement of the X8M to better understand the ICE/E balance: is the electrical alter ego only present to help it zero emission style through town centers (~100kW) or does it already pack serious grunt to get things moving (+250kW).

In the former case they might install an evolution of the current S63 heavily relying on the ICE and in the latter case, they can relax towards a N63. It also depends on how aggressive the zero emission legislation will hit of course.

Still many questions left unanswered, but I'am afraid that uncertainty is here to stay for several years to come.