[Gimlitehdwarf]

I'm interested in hearing how people feel about this with the F90 M5 now using the ZF8. I really haven't seen a comparison on youtube for just the transmission feel.

Anybody driven both F10 and F90?

[IB M]

I'll be curious to hear responses.

[AGS]

The ZF8 is smoother shifting, but you loose the more aggressive throttle blip on the downshift that I loved with the F10s DCT.

[josec70]

Originally Posted by AGS

The ZF8 is smoother shifting, but you loose the more aggressive throttle blip on the downshift that I loved with the F10s DCT.

^^^this^^^

[marcvtec]

given that that F90 did not come with dct, the ZF is still fairly good.
Yes a manual would be king, and at times more fun, sometimes I wonder, I'm too old for that crap. Same with the DCT, it is clunky, and at times had or has a mind of it own. my 2 cents.
M5 is a gentlemen sports car, period. At least that how I see it.

[fstezaws]

I was worried about how it would feel, going from an F10 to the F90.

Honestly, I do not miss anything about the DCT! The smoothness of the ZF is incredible. It shifts just as fast, is smoother from a stop, has better gearing for the engine, and feels like a beautiful fit for this motor compared to the F10.

I love the Auto H, and that when you turn off/on the car, it auto engages/disengages the parking break.

The transmission tuning is FAR superior. In D2 mode and Sport throttle, it seems to anticipate which gear I want to be in way way better than the DCT. It's like its reading my mind. I can hear and feel the car upshifting to a lower gear as I'm breaking into a corner, and upon exit it always nails the right gear. The F10 always felt likt it never found the right gear, and in D3, the F10 would hold 2nd gear way, way too long.

All around, there is nothing I miss from the F10, especially not in the drivetrain.

[soooma]

I don't miss the DCT one but which in and of itself is a statement for the ZF, it's good enough that you will forget it's bit DCT but forget the kick in your back between shifts

[Punitive]

Originally Posted by pet3r

I was worried about how it would feel, going from an F10 to the F90.

Honestly, I do not miss anything about the DCT! The smoothness of the ZF is incredible. It shifts just as fast, is smoother from a stop, has better gearing for the engine, and feels like a beautiful fit for this motor compared to the F10.

I love the Auto H, and that when you turn off/on the car, it auto engages/disengages the parking break.

The transmission tuning is FAR superior. In D2 mode and Sport throttle, it seems to anticipate which gear I want to be in way way better than the DCT. It's like its reading my mind. I can hear and feel the car upshifting to a lower gear as I'm breaking into a corner, and upon exit it always nails the right gear. The F10 always felt likt it never found the right gear, and in D3, the F10 would hold 2nd gear way, way too long.

All around, there is nothing I miss from the F10, especially not in the drivetrain.

Sport Plus engine and D2 is perfect for daily driving. It is amazing how BMW nailed the programming. The barks on shifts in upper RPM's is addicting. The DCT really annoyed me in stop and go.

[shoei]

ZF is way smoother in just about every setting... DCT is way more engaging and abrupt...

[Hashtag_M_Rated]

ZF is awesome for everyday driving, smooth, fast and quiet, I find myself just leaving it in AUTO mode. DCT is engaging but you really have to put in MANUAL mode to get its benefits and I used to hate leaving it in AUTO mode.

Overall I also do prefer the ZF especially on the M5.

With that being said I would pick the M2 ONLY in a DCT over a traditional manual transmission and a ZF if that was offered but for a big sports sedan like the M5 I have to say that BMW did the right thing going with a ZF!

[Steeve19M5CP]

No more swapping out burnt clutches on the F90 M5!

[f90_FTW]

Originally Posted by Steeve19M5CP

No more swapping out burnt clutches on the F90 M5!

Just moved from the f10 to the f90. Personally I'm a big fanboy of the dct. Best transmission I've ever driven. F90 isn't bad or anything just not as quick.

[themnmd]

DCT best if you primarily track the car. If it is mostly a daily driver ZF. I would guess that most people drive their M5 at 8/10 - 9/10. The DCT makes more sense in a M2,M3 or M4 which are more suited for the track. I don't mean to suggest that M5 is not a capable track performer but the others lighter and more agile. Just my 2 cents

[Pimpsy]

Originally Posted by Punitive

Sport Plus engine and D2 is perfect for daily driving. It is amazing how BMW nailed the programming. The barks on shifts in upper RPM's is addicting.

Same feeling here. I'm still playing with the settings constantly but Sport Plus, D2, Comfort, Comfort feels spot on. D3 pushes out the sound a little better but it tends to hold the gears too long and keep the revs too high for mildly spirited driving, comparatively speaking. I often find myself wishing D3 would shift and instead it hangs there waiting for more throttle. D2 just feels much more natural for anything other than very aggressive driving.

I haven't yet gotten over just how amazing the car is overall. It's a true, worthy evolution of the F10 and just a magnificent piece of kit...I couldn't be happier.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Gimlitehdwarf

I'm interested in hearing how people feel about this with the F90 M5 now using the ZF8. I really haven't seen a comparison on youtube for just the transmission feel.

Anybody driven both F10 and F90?

In Comfort mode, the ZF wins.

There's no need to mimic auto-tranny behaviors like the DCTs did because they're obviously natively there now... however, BMW still chose to. Creep mode (which can describe most of us that drive these cars I'm told) is still there. In addition, like the DCT, this transmission doesn't kick down in manual mode when you push through the detent. However, and again just like the DCT, push through the detent and pull the downshift paddle and it shifts to the lowest possible gear. My point: if you've driven the DCT, the ZF's software causes it to behave almost identically.

In Sport modes, upshifts are just about as fast. Where it tends to get stuck for a 1/10th or two are the aggressive downshifts... and I think I've noticed a tendency for that to worsen when shifting down whilst pulling some lateral Gs.

Overall, I'm very happy with it.

[soooma]

Originally Posted by limeypride

In Comfort mode, the ZF wins.

There's no need to mimic auto-tranny behaviors like the DCTs did because they're obviously natively there now... however, BMW still chose to. Creep mode (which can describe most of us that drive these cars I'm told) is still there. In addition, like the DCT, this transmission doesn't kick down in manual mode when you push through the detent. However, and again just like the DCT, push through the detent and pull the downshift paddle and it shifts to the lowest possible gear. My point: if you've driven the DCT, the ZF's software causes it to behave almost identically.

In Sport modes, upshifts are just about as fast. Where it tends to get stuck for a 1/10th or two are the aggressive downshifts... and I think I've noticed a tendency for that to worsen when shifting down whilst pulling some lateral Gs.

Overall, I'm very happy with it.

Agreed

[Debtm3]

All the praise is bullshit I guarantee if the f90 came with both options every body except the older crowd would pick the dct!

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Debtm3

All the praise is bullshit I guarantee if the f90 came with both options every body except the older crowd would pick the dct!

Your comment gave me pause... and I think you're absolutely right with one exception: as much I loved the DCT in the last 5 of my M sedans/coupes, it always irritated me that the stock drivetrain was unable to cope with the aftermarket-tuned power that the S63TU could deliver. Of course, why should I be irritated? BMW designed it to work as-is, not beyond. However, competitive vehicles could handle more and that (?almost?) always came down to the transmission. The DCT required physical mods (clutch packs mostly) that went beyond what I was willing to do. Now, I get to tinker some more...

PS: have you driven one of the new M5s?

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Your comment gave me pause... and I think you're absolutely right with one exception: as much I loved the DCT in the last 5 of my M sedans/coupes, it always irritated me that the stock drivetrain was unable to cope with the aftermarket-tuned power that the S63TU could deliver. Of course, why should I be irritated? BMW designed it to work as-is, not beyond. However, competitive vehicles could handle more and that (?almost?) always came down to the transmission. The DCT required physical mods (clutch packs mostly) that went beyond what I was willing to do. Now, I get to tinker some more...

PS: have you driven one of the new M5s?

I do miss the DCT's more aggressive downshifts, but that is about it. ZF all day for this "old guy".

[BwoodBMW]

If I could trade the DCT in my F80 for the zf I would in a second. I think the dct is clunky, has some very strange behavioral characteristics and generally is highly overrated on these forums... it's not awful but I don't see it as the gem that others do.

Go drive a Porsche PDK and you see how good it can be.

[kyrix1st]

Manual shifting (especially downshift) requires some serious work if they ever want to plant Zfat on M3s. Primary reason why F90 M5s just feel like a tuned up 550i compared to F10 M5s which felt like r8ped apes in a good way

BMW is just being lazy not developing standalone DCTs for full M cars regardless of M xDrive. Smooth shifts and luxury are not what M cars are about..

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Manual shifting (especially downshift) requires some serious work if they ever want to plant Zfat on M3s. Primary reason why F90 M5s just feel like a tuned up 550i compared to F10 M5s which felt like r8ped apes in a good way

BMW is just being lazy not developing standalone DCTs for full M cars regardless of M xDrive. Smooth shifts and luxury are not what M cars are about..

Where do you get your data from about the ZF in the F90 M5? I have about 6,000 miles experience in it and while there are facets of the DCT transmission I'd like to have back, I still prefer the ZF overall.

I agree with you for the M2/M3/M4--they're far more laser-focused on the raw driving experience. However, performance and luxury (which incudes smooth shifts in normal driving) are exactly what the M5 is about--what's why I bought it... and my E63S (and, among other things, got rid of the E63S because I didn't like the rough-as-nails transmission). My RS7 also departed in part because of the transmission but, in that car's case, its ZF fully supports all of your concerns--it was tedious, fussy and labored/slow between shifts (unless you were in AMAX mode which only works from launches). The ZF in the M5 is not.