Meth injection?

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by laloosh

I had a 2007 direct injection mazda with a gt35r turbo. I was spraying meth injection and it worked like a champ. I am actually going to spray the 135 the first chance i get. Lower temps, cleaner engine, higher octane...why not?

It should also help to clean the carbon buildup from the pistons and valves, etc. That's a side benefit few people really think about.

To take advantage of WI you need to raise boost or advance timing. I'm not sure how much headroom you have on stock turbos. If someone comes out with a good turbo upgrade I can definitely see it.

I plan on installing aquamist hf-s on my S4.

[denial]

Aquamist 2ds anyone? I'm sure I could find a nice spot for this bracket somewhere...

[sbefar01]

One of my buddies in a Corvette car club mentioned that the methanol actually can strip down some of the engine's internals in a harmful way. He said the methanol cleans the internals but to the point where the internals are affected negatively. I dont know if this is true, just figured I would report and ask if this is a possible drawback??

[DBFIU]

There is a thread on this topic.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20092

It is quite recent too.

[audi2bmw1]

Originally Posted by laloosh

I guess it all depends on the percentage of meth/alky you chose to spray and where you tap to spray it. If done correctly and injected with a high pressure pump, the meth mixture will be completly burned off leaving nothing to corrode or harm internals.

this is true..it burns up pretty quick...too strong of meth does harm fuel lines etc..but since most of us spray somewhere in the intake and the meth gets put in combustion chamber....just remember this mix gets ATOMIZED into a mist..the water evaps to fight heat and meth gives the octane a boost...93 octane turns into ~106 pretty quick(or should i say it acts like your running race gas)..depending on a few things..

[Juicer]

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

this is true..it burns up pretty quick...too strong of meth does harm fuel lines etc..but since most of us spray somewhere in the intake and the meth gets put in combustion chamber....just remember this mix gets ATOMIZED into a mist..the water evaps to fight heat and meth gives the octane a boost...93 octane turns into ~106 pretty quick(or should i say it acts like your running race gas)..depending on a few things..

Hmmm. Maybe we could run the race gas map with 93 with this set-up.

[audi2bmw1]

thats what im thinking..i would love to have a data logger for this car tho..MISS my vag-com...i did email rosstech and they are working on a BMW vag-com system...tho it will take some time before they release it...pretty hard ecu to crack i guess...

[Juicer]

I was reading that with the methanol/water injection there is a small risk for some big problems if the pump fails or runs out of fluid and the safety mechanismis not able to switch the timing back.

2 questions
1) Would this still be a danger if we aren't running a special map, just the high boost JB3 map for example.
2) If we did just run a generic high boost tune and say an FMIC what type of hp gains would we see by adding methanol/water injection.

[audi2bmw1]

u wont have those issues if your using a current market tune...its when YOU tune and raise the boost and timing etc etc...since most of the tunes out now are made to be used without water/meth and still using the stock FMIC etc your fine...now if u have the active motorworks tune that allows you to change these variables and you raise the boost higher than the tune runs and u advance the timing etc you will NOT want to run out of the boost juice...BUT you guys are not remembering that were gonna use the stock winshield res for this...hence a nice warning light and sound that comes on in plenty of time to let u know your low on fluid....the only real danger is when your WOT and no juice is spraying...the windshield res hold quite a bit of fluid and i cant see you using that up in two days...this will vary on how much u drive and how often ur spraying..how big the nozzle is your injecting with etc etc....my stock res from the audi tt was about a gallon or so and would last me two weeks...now not everyday i would drive like crazy...the nice thing about the controller is you can set the boost dials too high and you wont inject...to put it simple your in control of when and how often u wanna spray...now for a track day when ur WOT a lot your gonna want to bring an extra gallon of boost juice with you in case u run out...other wise turn your boost settings way down..

about the HP...it all depends on the boost raised and timing...most gains average 20-30whp...my main reason i run water/meth is for the safty...with all the work i did to my audi TT and had a 93 oct ecu from APR...i went to change some settings like boost and timing...I DID NOT KEEP THEM THAT WAY...a lot depends on the tune if your running one....APR uses a great tune thats self adjusting..i didnt have to make any changes to my timing nor boost..and the water meth gave me pretty good gains...its hard to explain the feeling u get when injecting...u can def tell when your injecting and when your not...my car would feel as if it was twin charged (super and turbo charged) i would start injecting at 5psi and full spray at 14psi...water/meth is a great tool to counter heat and help protect the engine from detonation...

[Juicer]

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

u wont have those issues if your using a current market tune...its when YOU tune and raise the boost and timing etc etc...since most of the tunes out now are made to be used without water/meth and still using the stock FMIC etc your fine...now if u have the active motorworks tune that allows you to change these variables and you raise the boost higher than the tune runs and u advance the timing etc you will NOT want to run out of the boost juice...BUT you guys are not remembering that were gonna use the stock winshield res for this...hence a nice warning light and sound that comes on in plenty of time to let u know your low on fluid....the only real danger is when your WOT and no juice is spraying...the windshield res hold quite a bit of fluid and i cant see you using that up in two days...this will vary on how much u drive and how often ur spraying..how big the nozzle is your injecting with etc etc....my stock res from the audi tt was about a gallon or so and would last me two weeks...now not everyday i would drive like crazy...the nice thing about the controller is you can set the boost dials too high and you wont inject...to put it simple your in control of when and how often u wanna spray...now for a track day when ur WOT a lot your gonna want to bring an extra gallon of boost juice with you in case u run out...other wise turn your boost settings way down..

about the HP...it all depends on the boost raised and timing...most gains average 20-30whp...my main reason i run water/meth is for the safty...with all the work i did to my audi TT and had a 93 oct ecu from APR...i went to change some settings like boost and timing...I DID NOT KEEP THEM THAT WAY...a lot depends on the tune if your running one....APR uses a great tune thats self adjusting..i didnt have to make any changes to my timing nor boost..and the water meth gave me pretty good gains...its hard to explain the feeling u get when injecting...u can def tell when your injecting and when your not...my car would feel as if it was twin charged (super and turbo charged) i would start injecting at 5psi and full spray at 14psi...water/meth is a great tool to counter heat and help protect the engine from detonation...

I think the JB3 tune is self adjusting. It is supposed to adjust to FMIC or DPs, so maybe it will work well with water/meth injection. Sounds like a great mod :headbang:.

[Dr_Jones]

has anyone had the head off to look at intake valves?

The vag guys are saying that meth injection has a secondary benefit of keeping them clean. There was just a thread over there today talking about an old-school atmospheric breather http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4182518

[audi2bmw1]

yes thats prolly true as it cleans away carbon deposits on cylinder walls etc...just like people did in the old'in days and poured small amounts of water directly into the engine...lol although the water/meth is a much safer route to take...gives the steam cleaning effect

[andrew@southernBM]

Contact Active Autowerke for your Performance needs on this, they have a kit on a car, check You tube as well for the car on the dyno. The full kits should be available very soon

[hotpants]

Originally Posted by andrew@southernBM

Contact Active Autowerke for your Performance needs on this, they have a kit on a car, check You tube as well for the car on the dyno. The full kits should be available very soon

i hope their kit looks good too. despite the obvious performance and improved engine longevity increases i never touched a water or alky/meth kit. due mainly to the fact that all that tubing installed in the car makes the engine rather unpleasant to look at.

[Evolution Racewerks]

We've been running a Snow Performance Stage 2 kit in our 135i for some time now. Our main purpose for it was to cool the motor down as we have been having heat related limp mode issues. Definitely helps and works great.

One thing however, your car must be tuned for the meth injection to take advantage of it.

[audi2bmw1]

Originally Posted by hotpants

i hope their kit looks good too. despite the obvious performance and improved engine longevity increases i never touched a water or alky/meth kit. due mainly to the fact that all that tubing installed in the car makes the engine rather unpleasant to look at.

not really a lot of wires at all...one for the map sensor and the small tubing that runs from the pump to the nozzle...one tube from the washer fluid tank to pump and thats all....nice small hose loom will cover all wires etc

[Evolution Racewerks]

The Snow Performance was easy to install. No map sensor wiring. It is boost activated so all you do is attach a vacuum line to it. The controller is progressive so for example, you can have it set at 5 psi start and 14 psi max. From 5 psi to 14 psi, the meth injection will come progressively giving you max pray at 14 psi.

Other than that, power and ground wires. That's it.

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

not really a lot of wires at all...one for the map sensor and the small tubing that runs from the pump to the nozzle...one tube from the washer fluid tank to pump and thats all....nice small hose loom will cover all wires etc

[audi2bmw1]

^^^ trust me devils own is a muh better kit...they designed the first all digital controller...after hella post by me bashing thier 1960's style resistors and crap controller they finally got wise and seemed to copy devils own...the kits are similar but devil own takes the win here...they have the best nozzles and ways to mount them to anything..silcone or hard pipes doesnt matte...and this is new to me them jsut using a boost line to activate the controller...using a map sensor volt wires makes more sense to me...i might have to ask chance(owner of devils own) why he doesnt use just a vac line...you would think it would cause problems esp if someone has a leak...the map sensor wire would be a better and more reliable source....my 2 cents

[audi2bmw1]

Originally Posted by laloosh

A REAL secondary fuel injection controller will blow devils own controller out of the water. I owned the devils own kit, its nothing special and personal i think it looks like ass, esp in a bmw interior.:smile:

uuh are you serious? what kit did you have? and aquamist is waay overpriced and snow performance still uses 1970s technology for their controller...i just checked usrallyteams website and its still the old kits from when i used to mess with them...the progressive digital controller thats described by Evolution Racewerks sounds like he mixed up devils own controller with snows....snows you mount in the engine bay...devils own you mount in the car with you and set the dials as such.

[Evolution Racewerks]

Having a vacuum source to activate it is ideal as it is easier to install/remove. That and you do not mess around and tap the MAP sensor wires and risk having a bad MAP sensor connection etc. MAP sensor is how the ECU calculates air flow, not a good idea to mess with it. Our cars are also MAP sensor based. MAP sensor is basically a pressure (boost) sensor. It reads pressure and sends that info to the ECU. Since the Snow Performance controller is pressure activated, it essentially performs and reads just like the car's MAP sensor so there is no discrepancies between readings as they're both reading pressure (boost).

Now, if the car was a MAF sensor like Mitsu, Subaru, VW, Audi, then yes, ideally you want to get the signal from the MAF sensor since a MAF system actually "reads" airflow over the sensor unlike a MAP sensor (our cars) which read boost pressure which the ECU uses that data to calculate airflow (MAP doesn't actually read airflow).

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

^^^ trust me devils own is a muh better kit...they designed the first all digital controller...after hella post by me bashing thier 1960's style resistors and crap controller they finally got wise and seemed to copy devils own...the kits are similar but devil own takes the win here...they have the best nozzles and ways to mount them to anything..silcone or hard pipes doesnt matte...and this is new to me them jsut using a boost line to activate the controller...using a map sensor volt wires makes more sense to me...i might have to ask chance(owner of devils own) why he doesnt use just a vac line...you would think it would cause problems esp if someone has a leak...the map sensor wire would be a better and more reliable source....my 2 cents

I'm pretty sure I have the Snow Performance kit since it's installed in the car :wink:. I'm not mistaken how it works either as I'm the person who installed it and set it up.

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

uuh are you serious? what kit did you have? and aquamist is waay overpriced and snow performance still uses 1970s technology for their controller...i just checked usrallyteams website and its still the old kits from when i used to mess with them...the progressive digital controller thats described by Evolution Racewerks sounds like he mixed up devils own controller with snows....snows you mount in the engine bay...devils own you mount in the car with you and set the dials as such.

[audi2bmw1]

hmm ok first off..i know full well what MAP means..(manifold absolute pressure) and yes thats a more accurate place to measure data...far better than any MAF sensor any day...coming from the audi./vw scene..that uses MAF sensors we all chose to use the MAP sensor wire..and i have plenty of experience with electronics and soldering is how to ensure a good connection. for a progressive system we've always used a MAP signal wire. i just emailed the owner of devils own and will post his response..and from the site either they havnt updated their pics or im not seeing where u got your kit from...snow has been using old ass technology for the past 5 yrs at least..so im glad to hear they have finally modernized their controller

[Evolution Racewerks]

I apologize if I made it seem like you didn't know. That was not my intention. Since we're having this discussion on a public forum, I was just stating the obvious for those reading along that aren't familar.

Technically, MAF sensor is more accurate than MAP sensor as a MAF sensor actually read airflow whereas a MAP sensor reads pressure and the ECU takes that value and calculates what airflow is using a table in it's memory. Granted OEM manufacturers have that airflow/pressure table spot on so it's never an issue. Now, MAP sensors are prefered in the tuning world because it's easier to tune with a MAP sensor as either the calibration table is known or is easy figure out (x voltage = y pressure) and apply to your calculations. Whereas on a MAF sensor, x voltage = a raw data that the ECU uses along with intake air temps to get airflow numbers. Since you don't know what that raw data figure actually means, it's very difficult to tune with. You'd have to meticulously go through the voltage and build your own calibration table.

The Snow Performance stuff is top notch quality stuff. Maybe what you've seen a few years ago might not be so impressive but a few years ago nobody did meth injection. I'm not familiar with their old stuff, but what they have now works great. Snow Performance has their own website that is quite current with all their products. Probably a better place to check out info since chances are they will update the site more often than USRT.

Originally Posted by audi2bmw1

hmm ok first off..i know full well what MAP means..(manifold absolute pressure) and yes thats a more accurate place to measure data...far better than any MAF sensor any day...coming from the audi./vw scene..that uses MAF sensors we all chose to use the MAP sensor wire..and i have plenty of experience with electronics and soldering is how to ensure a good connection. for a progressive system we've always used a MAP signal wire. i just emailed the owner of devils own and will post his response..and from the site either they havnt updated their pics or im not seeing where u got your kit from...snow has been using old ass technology for the past 5 yrs at least..so im glad to hear they have finally modernized their controller