[Archimedes65]

Originally Posted by SFT33

I seriously doubt it. The OP didn’t perform the required break-in service. Engine failed. End of story.

BMW has to prove that the lack of oil change was the direct cause of the failure for which it is denying coverage. By law. Consumer protection laws on this stuff are pretty strong, in favor of the consumer.

The other timing stuff is more debatable, but not a great fact pattern for BMW.

[Lawguy]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

BMW has to prove that the lack of oil change was the direct cause of the failure for which it is denying coverage. By law. Consumer protection laws on this stuff are pretty strong, in favor of the consumer.

The other timing stuff is more debatable, but not a great fact pattern for BMW.

Uh, that’s not exactly how the burden of proof works.

Consumer is the Plaintiff, who has the BOP. You don’t get to say “my engine crapped out so give me a new one”. You have to prove how and why.

I’ve tried several products liability cases. They ain’t easy or cheap.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by Lawguy

Uh, that’s not exactly how the burden of proof works.

Consumer is the Plaintiff, who has the BOP. You don’t get to say “my engine crapped out so give me a new one”. You have to prove how and why.

I’ve tried several products liability cases. They ain’t easy or cheap.

I’m no lawyer, but I thought MM basically flipped the BOP on warrantied products bc of how often they were being abused, requiring that the company show why a otherwise valid claim isn’t covered.

[8th_Sin]

I have a new '20 M5. My father passed and I needed to drive 480 miles one direction before returning. At 800 miles, I called the dealership to tell / ask them that I need to make this trip and should I do it before or after the trip. They stated that it really didn't matter and it was up to me. I then asked if it would hurt anything, including warranty, if I waited until I was back (logic being that I would have a new oil change / diff change after a longer drive). They told me it would not.

Had the service performed yesterday

[Aronis]

In the old days, M5 engine blocks were used blocks with some miles on them, and BMW then built the M5 engines. Thus 'Broken In.'

If the M5 needs this service at a specific mileage, then the car should SHUT DOWN at that mileage, thus forcing the service. Or maybe BMW can drive the car for 1200 miles before they sell it to someone.

This is BS. I agree if missing by 1000 miles caused this failure without a "low oil" warning, or similar, then I also doubt the long term reliability of this engine. I can understand requiring a specific oil and perhaps a specific interval for oil changes, but being so dead on with dates is crazy.

Mike.

For those of you who fall on the side of "missed the service, too bad" I can't wait until medical insurances catches on with this, "You smoked? Too bad, not covering your angioplasty. You're 50 pounds overweight, sorry not covering your hip replacement....." etc.

[SFT33]

Originally Posted by Aronis

In the old days, M5 engine blocks were used blocks with some miles on them, and BMW then built the M5 engines. Thus 'Broken In.'

If the M5 needs this service at a specific mileage, then the car should SHUT DOWN at that mileage, thus forcing the service. Or maybe BMW can drive the car for 1200 miles before they sell it to someone.

This is BS. I agree if missing by 1000 miles caused this failure without a "low oil" warning, or similar, then I also doubt the long term reliability of this engine. I can understand requiring a specific oil and perhaps a specific interval for oil changes, but being so dead on with dates is crazy.

Mike.

For those of you who fall on the side of "missed the service, too bad" I can't wait until medical insurances catches on with this, "You smoked? Too bad, not covering your angioplasty. You're 50 pounds overweight, sorry not covering your hip replacement....." etc.

It’s a leased vehicle. OP didn’t perform the required service. Engine failed. You can complain all you want. Maybe they cut the OP a break out of goodwill. Maybe they don’t. They are in the driver seat.

[oduli81]

Originally Posted by F90Joe

Other than the fact that I was never told the dire importance of doing so, this was during the entire pandemic - working from home and was not rushing to go into unnecessary places.

When I brought it in for the service, no one said "hey btw your warranty is voided now" - and the car has been there 3x since that service, all of which were covered under warranty. Now that there is a larger issue, they are claiming no warranty - how do you pick and choose?

that is your defense my friend, covid 19. don't let out

[TrevorM3]

LOOL 5 pages long. Everyone making excuses to do a simple, free, oil change.

No accountability anymore.

[SFT33]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

LOOL 5 pages long. Everyone making excuses to do a simple, free, oil change.

No accountability anymore.

Trevor -

You have pretty strong opinions. Do you own an M5?

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by SFT33

Trevor -

You have pretty strong opinions. Do you own an M5?

Nope.

[PhrogFixer01]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

BMW has to prove that the lack of oil change was the direct cause of the failure for which it is denying coverage. By law. Consumer protection laws on this stuff are pretty strong, in favor of the consumer.

The other timing stuff is more debatable, but not a great fact pattern for BMW.

I would be confident in saying that BMW already has the data proving catastrophic failure could happen if exceeded which is why they require it. Can also guarantee that the failures typically happened north of 1,200 miles but BMW built in a "safety net" as most manufacturers of products do.

Also, BMW will only have to prove one thing... negligence. And unfortunately for the OP he obviously was in the eyes of BMW. BMW has a mound of things to stand on. It's in the manual, the car tells you every time you turn it on, it's on your dash, it's in the app (if you use it), etc.

I truly hope BMW does something out of goodwill but that's what it would be is goodwill. I don't see any other obligation unfortunately.

[Narco1]

Originally Posted by PhrogFixer01

I would be confident in saying that BMW already has the data proving catastrophic failure could happen if exceeded which is why they require it. Can also guarantee that the failures typically happened north of 1,200 miles but BMW built in a "safety net" as most manufacturers of products do.

Also, BMW will only have to prove one thing... negligence. And unfortunately for the OP he obviously was in the eyes of BMW. BMW has a mound of things to stand on. It's in the manual, the car tells you every time you turn it on, it's on your dash, it's in the app (if you use it), etc.

I truly hope BMW does something out of goodwill but that's what it would be is goodwill. I don't see any other obligation unfortunately.

Completely agree. The OP’s situation is at the discretion of BMW. As stated above, this is made clear to the owner numerous ways. It’s not a recommended or suggested service, it’s required. End of story.

Wish only the best for the OP, but I think he has to only look in the mirror for who’s at fault here.

Good luck!

[Higgs Boson]

honestly, it's 2020. if you build an engine and put it in a 130K dollar car and it "needs" a break in service so it doesn't blow up, you really don't deserve to be in business. most engines in this category are "hand built" and broken in at the factory.

for the benefit of the doubt to BMW, the engine didn't fail due to a skipped break in service. but, if BMW are blaming an engine failure on a skipped break in service then that looks even worse.

the whole situation is shameful and honestly not on the part of the customer. I have been in this business for 28 years and for a span of years did my own share of denying warranty claims when needed....but this is a bad move on OP's dealer and on their district rep from BMW to make this decision.

with that said, 95% of the time there is more to the story and I have to leave some room for untold facts....engines today don't just fail due to a few extra miles on the oil change, even the first one.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

honestly, it's 2020. if you build an engine and put it in a 130K dollar car and it "needs" a break in service so it doesn't blow up, you really don't deserve to be in business. most engines in this category are "hand built" and broken in at the factory.

for the benefit of the doubt to BMW, the engine didn't fail due to a skipped break in service. but, if BMW are blaming an engine failure on a skipped break in service then that looks even worse.

the whole situation is shameful and honestly not on the part of the customer. I have been in this business for 28 years and for a span of years did my own share of denying warranty claims when needed....but this is a bad move on OP's dealer and on their district rep from BMW to make this decision.

with that said, 95% of the time there is more to the story and I have to leave some room for untold facts....engines today don't just fail due to a few extra miles on the oil change, even the first one.

I think more than anything, it's bad optics. OP could say he didn't want to go to a dealer due to COVID concerns. Yeah, he should have taken it for an oil change. However, to have the engine blow and then they void the warranty on a car I paid $120k for? Yeah it would be my last BMW.

I'd be curious to know how it was driven. If driven normally then they should replace it. That being said, if OP skipped oil change and was launch controlling it, then that's on him.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by mjr24

I think more than anything, it's bad optics. OP could say he didn't want to go to a dealer due to COVID concerns. Yeah, he should have taken it for an oil change. However, to have the engine blow and then they void the warranty on a car I paid $120k for? Yeah it would be my last BMW.

I'd be curious to know how it was driven. If driven normally then they should replace it. That being said, if OP skipped oil change and was launch controlling it, then that's on him.

Makes sense except during covid he went in for the 1200 miles service at 2200 miles. Further went back in some miles later also during covid for an oil change.

Ppl get your 1200 mile check within a few hundred miles of 1200, that's the bottom line

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by LSM

Makes sense except during covid he went in for the 1200 miles service at 2200 miles. Further went back in some miles later also during covid for an oil change.

Ppl get your 1200 mile check within a few hundred miles of 1200, that's the bottom line

Yep, good catch....I missed that.

Still....I think it's a bit shady on the dealer's part. If they are going to void a warranty....I feel they should do it in writing immediately when it comes to light (not after he has brought the car in 2 more times without any word about the warranty getting voided). They should have told him at 2200 miles his warranty is gone.

[MikeStammer]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Yep, good catch....I missed that.

Still....I think it's a bit shady on the dealer's part. If they are going to void a warranty....I feel they should do it in writing immediately when it comes to light (not after he has brought the car in 2 more times without any word about the warranty getting voided). They should have told him at 2200 miles his warranty is gone.

maybe the dealer did give him a break? they did the break in at 2200. then they did other service for him as well, hoping nothing would come of the negligence.

then something else happened. bmwna got involved, saw the info/numbers, and shut it down.

for all we know that dealer was sanctioned by bmwna for not voiding things at the break in service.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by SFT33

Trevor -

You have pretty strong opinions. Do you own an M5?

Why do you need to own a M5 to have an opinion?

[A Need For Speed]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

Why do you need to own a M5 to have an opinion?

Boy you guys are heading into the weeds.


Did OP ever mention at what Florida dealership did this occurred? Would like to steer clear of them. Seems like a low ball tactic to play.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by mjr24

I think more than anything, it's bad optics. OP could say he didn't want to go to a dealer due to COVID concerns. Yeah, he should have taken it for an oil change. However, to have the engine blow and then they void the warranty on a car I paid $120k for? Yeah it would be my last BMW.

I'd be curious to know how it was driven. If driven normally then they should replace it. That being said, if OP skipped oil change and was launch controlling it, then that's on him.

I think COVID is a valid counter argument depending on the details of the timing. It’s also one BMW has acknowledged. The factory warranty on my wife’s X1 was extended for a couple months by BMW at no cost because it expired right when COVID was starting in the US and they acknowledged how difficult it was to get service.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by A Need For Speed

Did OP ever mention at what Florida dealership did this occurred? Would like to steer clear of them. Seems like a low ball tactic to play.

Why steer clear of the dealer?
They would be happy to do the work, they get paid for warranty work...its a large part of their income.
If there is a quiet time in the workshop, users of the dealerships demo cars may be asked if there is warranty work that needs doing on their cars.
If the warranty work is being refused then its down to BMW USA.

[Narco1]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

I think COVID is a valid counter argument depending on the details of the timing. It’s also one BMW has acknowledged. The factory warranty on my wife’s X1 was extended for a couple months by BMW at no cost because it expired right when COVID was starting in the US and they acknowledged how difficult it was to get service.

I’m in Ohio as well. My dealer would come to my home get the car, service it, clean/sanitize it and return it. You don’t have to leave your home. Clearly the OP was out driving the car.