[AHall]

I wonder if BMW customer service would provide an answer on a limit to the number of launch controls.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by AHall

I wonder if BMW customer service would provide an answer on a limit to the number of launch controls.

Mine already did but only verbally.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by limeypride

That's my assumption, too, but I've no fu#king idea what I'm talking about so there's that.

Others here seem more optimistic—my take is their focusing on some sort of reasonable disclosure requirement that, well, isn't reasonably disclosed and ultimately negatively impacts the product. :

I don't think anyone is optimistic. We're talking past each other. Some of us are saying that this is wrong and amounts to false advertising. Others are saying "good luck taking on a company the size of BMW". That's a far cry from defending that what BMW is doing is morally or legally okay.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

I don't think anyone is optimistic

... seems pretty optimistic to me; why would anyone otherwise take the case.

We're talking past each other. Some of us are saying that this is wrong and amounts to false advertising. Others are saying "good luck taking on a company the size of BMW". That's a far cry from defending that what BMW is doing is morally or legally okay.

There's no talking past one another from my standpoint--I'm saying I no longer care; others still do with varying degrees of emotion.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by limeypride

... seems pretty optimistic to me; why would anyone otherwise take the case.


There's no talking past one another from my standpoint--I'm saying I no longer care; others still do with varying degrees of emotion.

That’s even more confusing. How could you not care after describing how much you used it and how significant you thought the acceleration loss was?

I guess my mistake. It sounded like you were only ever saying “good luck” in terms of practical odds of winning a case in response to people who were saying that it was morally or legally wrong. It read to me like you were missing the point.

I didn’t take anyone as optimistic. I’m certainly not. I took it more as “screw companies who do things like this, it’s worth fighting over bc it’s anti-consumer BS”. I guess taking it that way played into the mismatch of it not making sense to me that people were responding with odds of winning a case and sidestepping the underlying morality/legality.

To further support the argument of it being a losing battle, I don’t think this is remotely isolated to BMW. It may even be bordering on industry standard. I guess I’m just going to have to budget for a Porsche next cycle because these corporate hide-the-ball games are beyond unacceptable to me.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

That’s even more confusing. How could you not care after describing how much you used it and how significant you thought the acceleration loss was?

I guess my mistake. It sounded like you were only ever saying “good luck” in terms of practical odds of winning a case in response to people who were saying that it was morally or legally wrong. It read to me like you were missing the point.

I didn’t take anyone as optimistic. I’m certainly not. I took it more as “screw companies who do things like this, it’s worth fighting over bc it’s BS”. I guess taking it that way played into the mismatch of it not making sense to me that people were responding with odds of winning a case and sidestepping the underlying morality/legality.

To further support the argument of it being a losing battle, I don’t think this is remotely isolated to BMW. It may even be bordering on industry standard. I guess I’m just going to have to budget for a Porsche next cycle because these corporate hide-the-ball games are beyond unacceptable to me.

TL;DR

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by limeypride

TL;DR

Exactly what they count on...

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

Exactly what they count on...

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

Exactly what they count on...

It's probably going to cost a fortune to sue; and even if you win $1000 for every BMW owner; it will cost $400 in lawyer fees, $300 in taxes, and maybe you'll get $300 or less if you're lucky.
If you lose and the court finds it's frivolous and imposes legal fees; you're going to lose $2500+ or more per person. Not to mention it will take 3-5 years at the quickest.

Good luck. The risk reward is 10-1 with a 1-1,000,000,000 chance if successful.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

It's probably going to cost a fortune to sue; and even if you win $1000 for every BMW owner; it will cost $400 in lawyer fees, $300 in taxes, and maybe you'll get $300 or less if you're lucky.
If you lose and the court finds it's frivolous and imposes legal fees; you're going to lose $2500+ or more per person. Not to mention it will take 3-5 years at the quickest.

Good luck.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Why do people keep saying this? No one is saying you would win the case. We’re saying what BMW is doing is wrong. RTT

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Why do people keep saying this? No one is saying you would win the case. We’re saying what BMW is doing is wrong. RTT

It's definitely wrong; but how are going to fix it?

I think we are between a rock and hard place. The only other option is to buy a 911.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

It's definitely wrong; but how are going to fix it?

I think we are between a rock and hard place. The only other option is to buy a 911.

To be clear, I think winning a case is a real long shot because of the number of things that would have to fall in line, but I think it’s actually very similar to the Apple case on the merits. The major practical difference is you’re never going to get state AGs taking the fight to big corporate over something like this.

And yeah... dumping BMW to buy Porsche is pretty much where I’m going. The question will be DD Turbo S vs keep the M5c out of warranty and 3-season a GT3.

[crypto]

Maybe they can come out with a LC package via iDrive. Pay $600 and get another 50 launches. Premium LC package for $1000 get 100 launches and for $1500 get 200 more launches.

[Mcc420]

Instead of all this court talk. Let's talk about a solutions. Maybe coding or reprogramming the tcu via aftermarket. Xhp seems to say they have a solution for 18-19's. I'll be trying it in the spring. Who cares about the principals lol.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mcc420

Instead of all this court talk. Let's talk about a solutions. Maybe coding or reprogramming the tcu via aftermarket. Xhp seems to say they have a solution for 18-19's. I'll be trying it in the spring. Who cares about the principals lol.

What about the 2021 and 2020 models?

[onfireX5]

Truly is a shame that it is embedded and not front end disclosed. At least I knew up front I could only do 2-3 launches in a row before I had to let it cool off. M5 was the best saloon I have ever owned.

Wife still has a X3MC that will probably hit the limit soon. Very fun ride as is , but will lose that feature.

Ironically, I can launch my Turbo S over and over without a cool down or total limit. Holds 5200-5400 rpm, then release the foot brake. I watched a single Turbo S launch over 50 times at a Porsche day at Barber. Was brutal. I would not do it. But it held like a champ.

BMW will have to fix this as it becomes more public. Black eye stuff.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by Mcc420

Instead of all this court talk. Let's talk about a solutions. Maybe coding or reprogramming the tcu via aftermarket. Xhp seems to say they have a solution for 18-19's. I'll be trying it in the spring. Who cares about the principals lol.

Many of us still have cars under warranty. I haven't hit my limit, but I wouldn't trade LC for warranty on a car with this much tech.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by crypto

Maybe they can come out with a LC package via iDrive. Pay $600 and get another 50 launches. Premium LC package for $1000 get 100 launches and for $1500 get 200 more launches.

If it were clearly disclosed on purchase that 100 launches were covered with the regular factory warranty, and that you could purchase an "extended warranty" to cover additional launches I think that would be fine. It wouldn't be my favorite, but it would better than their proposal for all cars to come with all features and pay a monthly service fee to have your heated seats be able to be turned on.

Disabling the launch permanently for people regardless of warranty status doesn't work for me. Make the warranty openly years/miles/launches... fine. But if the car is out of warranty and I'm okay with risking extra wear on the transmission I shouldn't have features disappear permanently that were present when I bought the car.

[AHall]

After reading how people modify and beat on these cars, I would never buy one used. This is another reason not to buy used. Someone buying a used M5 may very likely want this feature and unbeknownst to them, they only have three launches left.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by AHall

After reading how people modify and beat on these cars, I would never buy one used. This is another reason not to buy used. Someone buying a used M5 may very likely want this feature and unbeknownst to them, they only have three launches left.

That's exactly why you don't buy used cars!! (And why they are 50% of what we pay for new ones)

[josec70]

Didn't read the whole thread but this has been well known to me since the F10 M5 days. I hit the max on my 13' M5 and then was a little more selective with the 15' M5 never hitting the limit.

These days I don't find myself using LC as much as before as there are few opportunities in Miami .. if I'm first in line at a Red light, and in the mood, maybe but few and far between and probably have not even hit 50 on my current 19 M5C and don't anticipate being anywhere close to 100 in 6 months when the lease is up.

Either way, sucks that it is not readily evident to unsuspecting buyers who learn this the hard way or like someone else mentioned, the person who buys a second-hand M5 only to learn LC is rendered useless.

This is one of many reasons I would never own a used M5.

[Simon H]

Would it be possible for the dealer, to plug the car in, and see how many launches have been performed, and how many you have left etc ?.