[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Simon H

That was posted nearly 6 years ago, for an X1, have BMW, technology, and times not changed since then ?.

Wouldn't know. Didn't know then and only learned it was public knowledge yesterday.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by GhostOne_322

I've never formally launched my M5...

And you are in the majority.

I launch often—usually from traffic lights against minivans driven by parents whose expression at the subsequent light clearly conveys their admiration and appreciation for my efforts.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

But limeypride has the 76 in his M8 and said it still has a limiter.

How is it legal to sell a car that limits its performance after a while? They shouldn't be allowed to advertise/sell the car one way, then let it detune itself to prevent warranty issues when you use it.

unfortunately it's legal. engines and cars in general degrade with time. that's why cars depreciation comes from. while it's usually small, a 500 hp engine in 1980 might only make 490 in 2000 and 480 hp I 2020. it's not illegal and you can't sue them.

also launch control isn't really advertisements and its not rising to the level high enough to be "false advertisement"

[Mcc420]

I talked to XHP and that seems like the only solution. I'll write more of my response later. I'm at work right now.

[euro*]

Originally Posted by Mcc420

I talked to XHP and that seems like the only solution. I'll write more of my response later. I'm at work right now.

HOLYYYYYY, THIS IS REALLY BOTHERING ME, as an owner of this car

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

unfortunately it's legal. engines and cars in general degrade with time. that's why cars depreciation comes from. while it's usually small, a 500 hp engine in 1980 might only make 490 in 2000 and 480 hp I 2020. it's not illegal and you can't sue them.

also launch control isn't really advertisements and its not rising to the level high enough to be "false advertisement"

That's not the same at all. Obviously cars will mechanically degrade over time. But self degradation is different. Apple got sued and lost a few years ago when they were slowing down the cpu of some iphones to save the battery. This is the exact same fing thing!

[Quinn A]

Launchgate here we come.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

That's not the same at all. Obviously cars will mechanically degrade over time. But self degradation is different. Apple got sued and lost a few years ago when they were slowing down the cpu of some iphones to save the battery. This is the exact same fing thing!

Apple lost because the took their product and later reduced capacity with new software to help sell their new phones.

It's completely different than a car sold with a restricted built in and never modified by BMW. Not similar at all.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Quinn A

Launchgate here we come.

Lol; good luck! Seriously I hope you're successful, but I wouldn't hold your breath!

Launch counters isn't the same of VW emissions scandal or Apple phones. It's not even close.

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by limeypride

And you are in the majority.

I launch often—usually from traffic lights against minivans driven by parents whose expression at the subsequent light clearly conveys their admiration and appreciation for my efforts.

Or disbelief that, despite your attempt, you still got stuck at the same light as them. 😂😉

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

Apple lost because the took their product and later reduced capacity with new software to help sell their new phones.

It's completely different than a car sold with a restricted built in and never modified by BMW. Not similar at all.

So if Apple just has the existing software limit the cpu after 2 years without an update, that's totally fine?

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

So if Apple just has the existing software limit the cpu after 2 years without an update, that's totally fine?

The issue in the Apple case didn't address that issue. The court ruling only stated that Apple can't release new software to limit old hardware in a specific effort to drive customers to buy the phones.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

Or disbelief that, despite your attempt, you still got stuck at the same light as them. 😂😉

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

FSociety

Didn't mean to say it doesn't fix it, but from what I saw on some cars the 0-60 didn't really improve but it did help in the other gears.

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

He was speaking about the older M5's < 2020 MY.

Originally Posted by KoenG

Like already discussed a few times before, as from 09/19 the ZF8HP75 was replaced by the ZF8HP76 which eliminated launch control issues. The M8 got the 76 trans from the commercial launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpGLqvgwtFM

[SigForLife]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

The issue in the Apple case didn't address that issue. The court ruling only stated that Apple can't release new software to limit old hardware in a specific effort to drive customers to buy the phones.

I’ve handled enough class actions that if I can find an expert, who can testify that BMW is in fact limiting cars after 100 launches, I’ll take the case.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by SigForLife

I’ve handled enough class actions that if I can find an expert, who can testify that BMW is in fact limiting cars after 100 launches, I’ll take the case.

Well, they apparently say so in their documentation so what exactly would the basis of your case be?

If you do, however, I'm in as a (hopefully) credible witness or whatever.

[SigForLife]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Well, they apparently say so in their documentation so what exactly would the basis of your case be?

If you do, however, I'm in as a (hopefully) credible witness or whatever.

I want to see something in writing or a BMW Tech willing to tell me and testify as to the Ms, not an X1, that BMW is limiting the cars to 100 launches.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by SigForLife

I want to see something in writing or a BMW Tech willing to tell me and testify as to the Ms, not an X1, that BMW is limiting the cars to 100 launches.

G'luck! While I've no interest in digging that up, it's reasonable to assume that the X1 text cited earlier is boilerplate text.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Well, they apparently say so in their documentation so what exactly would the basis of your case be?

If you do, however, I'm in as a (hopefully) credible witness or whatever.

If that documentation isn't clearly disclosed to the customer in advance to "clarify" (narrow) their advertisements, that doesn't seem relevant that it's buried in a book somewhere. It's like EULAs when they're only realistically presented after purchase, which is why they often don't hold up.

On the Apple comparison... both Apple and BMW have a plausible claim that they didn't have ill intent. Apple's was that they were trying to prevent unpredictable failures/crashes on older phones with old batteries. BMW's is that they're trying to prevent failures of a part that's already "well used". Both may have the effect of people trading in the old product early and both were poorly disclosed if they were disclosed at all. Both were performed via arbitrary software decisions that hamper functionality that was present when the product was originally purchased.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

If that documentation isn't clearly disclosed to the customer in advance to "clarify" (narrow) their advertisements, that doesn't seem relevant that it's buried in a book somewhere. It's like EULAs when they're only realistically presented after purchase, which is why they often don't hold up.

On the Apple comparison... both Apple and BMW have a plausible claim that they didn't have ill intent. Apple's was that they were trying to prevent unpredictable failures/crashes on older phones with old batteries. BMW's is that they're trying to prevent failures of a part that's already "well used". Both may have the effect of people trading in the old product early and both were poorly disclosed if they were disclosed at all. Both were performed via arbitrary software decisions that hamper functionality that was present when the product was originally purchased.

Cool. Let us know when one of you lawyers here decides to take a run at it—I'm in.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Cool. Let us know when one of you lawyers here decides to take a run at it—I'm in.

I'm willing to help the good fight; however, based my legal training, knowledge, and experience I'm willing to bet we will lose every time. The odds of beating BMW in this type of case with the facts we have is 1 in a million. You have a better change of winning the Lottery.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I'm willing to help the good fight; however, based my legal training, knowledge, and experience I'm willing to bet we will lose every time. The odds of beating BMW in this type of case with the facts we have is 1 in a million. You have a better change of winning the Lottery.

That's my assumption, too, but I've no fu#king idea what I'm talking about so there's that.

Others here seem more optimistic—my take is they're focusing on some sort of reasonable disclosure requirement that, well, isn't reasonably disclosed and ultimately negatively impacts the product. :