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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 General Forum    Next Gen F90 M5 to stay RWD, says Van Meel

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      05-04-2016, 06:02 AM   #89
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To be honest, after owning a 400+hp/600Nm turbo-upgraded RWD 335i, I think an AWD system is not quite bad for a high-powered car. It could actually improve real-world driving by quite a lot.
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      05-04-2016, 07:32 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
This is a surprise considering the hints provide previously in interviews by Van Meel himself, as well as the unmistakable evidence of AWD M5s being tested.

http://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1144727




Of course, we know that BMW tests many vehicle configurations that don't end up becoming products.

But those things aside, it is also a surprise because of the huge advantage AWD provides for getting power to the ground. If the F90 is RWD-only, it will be interesting to see how it is received against its next-generation competitors which will all have at least optional AWD and likely have real world acceleration times near 3.0s to 60 mph.
I'm definitely an advocate of RWD cars, and I know BMW knows how to build them, otherwise the M2 wouldn't be praised as much as it is. I'm positive that BMW can make the M5 with RWD function well even under acceleration, if they do ít like ferrari does with limiting torque. I bet a real world acceleration of 3.5 seconds is possible, they just need to make it a good car and prove that it is better than the AWD competitors, especially proving that BMW is better than Merc and Audi.
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      05-04-2016, 08:23 AM   #91
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The M5 is a heavy car, if it uses the 7 series carbon technology it will get a weight reduction. xDrive would add the weight back in. Maybe xDrive will be an option for the F90 M5 LCI.

Guys are pushing 900HP+ on their RWD M5 nowadays, the key would be wider tires to hold more power (600HP). My M5 traction is terrible, it's fun but not fast as it could be.

325 rear tires would be great.
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      05-04-2016, 09:36 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
The M5 is a heavy car, if it uses the 7 series carbon technology it will get a weight reduction. xDrive would add the weight back in. Maybe xDrive will be an option for the F90 M5 LCI.

Guys are pushing 900HP+ on their RWD M5 nowadays, the key would be wider tires to hold more power (600HP). My M5 traction is terrible, it's fun but not fast as it could be.

325 rear tires would be great.
The 295's aren't horrible, but a wider contact patch would help put the power down. The Shelby GT350 (None R) comes with 305's in the front and 315's at the rear, I believe. Wider rear rubber would be nice.
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      05-04-2016, 09:39 AM   #93
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The current generation M5 in competition package form makes a BMW claimed 580 horsepower. If BMW isn't going to go over 600hp, then a 20hp bump really won't make a difference in terms of how fast the rear tires light up. Hopefully, 500+ ft lbs of torque aren't available right off idle. That should help control wheel spin. Shouldn't we be more worried about how much torque this thing is going to put out if we are worried about wheel spin?
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      05-04-2016, 10:32 AM   #94
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IMO, they should keep the M5 with the same powertrain/engine giving it a small boost to around 600+hp, add stickier and bigger tires for more grip, keep it RWD, reduce the weight of the car using the new advancements in carbon core technology they used in the 7 Series, and overall improve the handling characteristics through chasis/suspension/steering tuning.

Doing the above should put them ahead of the next generation competition and overall provide a more fun drive for enthusiasts.
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      05-04-2016, 11:02 AM   #95
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I'm hoping BMW will build all of the M cars with the option of rear-bias M xDrive!

I'm awaiting an M4 Competition Package with M xDrive that would be my dream car!!!
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      05-04-2016, 12:20 PM   #96
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LMFAO at people talking about hooning and drifting a $100k plus, 2 ton sedan.

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      05-04-2016, 03:41 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
The 295's aren't horrible, but a wider contact patch would help put the power down. The Shelby GT350 (None R) comes with 305's in the front and 315's at the rear, I believe. Wider rear rubber would be nice.
Well, perhaps Mustang GT350 is a bad comparison. It's only 526HP and 429lb-ft, at the crank. The BMW M numbers is closer to the wheels power nowadays, so it will be close to 700HP/700LB-FT equivalent. Example, my F85 X5M actually makes 647HP crank reported by Dinan. Brochure reads 567HP.

But wow, I can't believe the GT350 have such wide front tires. Probably to reduce understeer, but 305 front isn't ideal for highway driving.

I think 325 rear and 275 front should be good.
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      05-04-2016, 04:01 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
LMFAO at people talking about hooning and drifting a $100k plus, 2 ton sedan.

Why?

Even my non M5 F10 (with CP anti roll bars) is a blast to throw around on a track and get the rear end to step out. As well as when driving on snow during winter time It's not difficult to do even though the car is heavy. RWD is so much more fun than AWD It's just awesome to keep the drift by adjusting the throttle and feel the car dance and keep the tail out! My F10 is much easier to control than my 1200kg Ford Sierra RS Cosworth...








Last edited by Boss330; 05-04-2016 at 04:11 PM..
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      05-04-2016, 06:29 PM   #99
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Awd is just so much fun. I'm a little disappointed. I would love this. Immediate power all the time.
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      05-05-2016, 03:14 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye
Awd is just so much fun. I'm a little disappointed. I would love this. Immediate power all the time.
I guess you mean immediate grip, not power?

AWD can be fun, but isn't usually considered as a fun option. It's better for traction under acceleration but not much else. But a setup like the new Focus RS seem to work great. But that system was developed to make a fwd car feel like a RWD car. They rejected the existing systems as used by Audi (and for instance in the A45 AMG) as they where to front biased and boring to drive...

BMW and particularly BMW M, is based around RWD agility and fun factor. And even at the current M5 power levels, the M5 is still quicker on a track than it's AWD competitors...
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      05-05-2016, 05:31 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
LMFAO at people talking about hooning and drifting a $100k plus, 2 ton sedan.

You should LYFAO at BMW, who's not only talking, but is actually building such a car, and selling tons of them also. So...maybe we should LOFAO at you, actually...
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      05-05-2016, 06:44 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajaz001 View Post
BMW was always about RWD, handling and sporty drive, and as top of range it wasn't for everybody and anytime.
I think the key word there is "was". Because today, BMWs are not about handling and sporty drive - at least from the reviews I've read and the 3/4/5/6/7 series I've driven.
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      05-05-2016, 08:57 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordkeyz73
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Originally Posted by BMWSource View Post
All BMW's should stay RWD forever. Enthusiasts want the power of RWD especially in the ///M cars. I don't agree with the new BMW ///M5 having AWD. Enthusiasts like me prefer RWD any day over AWD
I'm a HUGE enthusiast as are many (most?) of us, and it makes sense to have traction. As long as the M3 stays manual with a rear bias I'm fine.
I strongly agree
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      05-05-2016, 12:18 PM   #104
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Whats this debate all for? Guys complaining about BMW selling out for AWD? Guys complaining about the necessity for AWD?

1st.... isn't this topic about the next gen being RWD only?

2nd... When it does finally arrive, we STILL have the option of RWD.

Calm your tits people.

As much as I consider myself a purist for high HP 4 door RWD sedans, after owning a 650-700HP M5, I'm actually excited for an AWD version, given it's OPTIONAL.

More options never hurt anyone, except your competition. After 600HP, you won't be locking in any serious power off a dig or slow speed roll in these cars, and honestly... it's getting annoying.
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      05-05-2016, 09:42 PM   #105
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Good. Keep the stick option too
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      05-05-2016, 10:16 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
LMFAO at people talking about hooning and drifting a $100k plus, 2 ton sedan.

You should LYFAO at BMW, who's not only talking, but is actually building such a car, and selling tons of them also. So...maybe we should LOFAO at you, actually...
Yeah. And selling tons of them to middle aged bankers who drive them to the country club at the speed limit, and wouldn't know who Chris Harris if he punched them in the face.

What you said brings up no point about drifting or hooning a 2 ton $100k sedan. That behavior is irrelevant to the discussion.

Face it, the reason that BMW has sold so many cars is that they have become much LESS hardcore, not MORE. The more of a comfy hot rod they make it, the more they sell, and that's a fact. So not sure what you're LYFAO about, but if it's me, time for a reality check.
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      05-05-2016, 10:19 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
LMFAO at people talking about hooning and drifting a $100k plus, 2 ton sedan.

Why?

Even my non M5 F10 (with CP anti roll bars) is a blast to throw around on a track and get the rear end to step out. As well as when driving on snow during winter time It's not difficult to do even though the car is heavy. RWD is so much more fun than AWD It's just awesome to keep the drift by adjusting the throttle and feel the car dance and keep the tail out! My F10 is much easier to control than my 1200kg Ford Sierra RS Cosworth...







I never said it couldn't drift. My point was that there is no point in arguing that such behavior is important to BMW selling the car because 99% of the buyers think a drift is a pile of snow that they need to avoid getting their RWD M5 stuck in.
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      05-07-2016, 01:21 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordkeyz73
Genuinely surprised. But I think there still is a chance it could be an option. BMW will lose huge market share if it's RWD only with the current generation of competition.
Options are good

I like waking into my local dealership not my local dictatorship
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      05-18-2016, 07:54 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Exactly.

I would add that the examples you gave of powerful RWD cars with solid traction have the engine in a different place. I'm not sure there is a practical traction solution for a sedan other than AWD.
In ideal conditions weight transfer is from front to back (accelerating) so RWD is fine, no matter of engine placement. Sure LaFerrari and other high-performance cars have mid engine setup, but that's not issue here.


Also one thing bugs me, many of you mentioned snow and M5, hell why do you want drive lowered high-performance car on snow in first place?

If i live in snowy place, i would rather look for some real off road car, like Mercedes G, Land Rover etc, not low profile tyre monster.
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      05-18-2016, 11:20 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
The M5 is a heavy car, if it uses the 7 series carbon technology it will get a weight reduction. xDrive would add the weight back in. Maybe xDrive will be an option for the F90 M5 LCI.

Guys are pushing 900HP+ on their RWD M5 nowadays, the key would be wider tires to hold more power (600HP). My M5 traction is terrible, it's fun but not fast as it could be.

325 rear tires would be great.
The 295's aren't horrible, but a wider contact patch would help put the power down. The Shelby GT350 (None R) comes with 305's in the front and 315's at the rear, I believe. Wider rear rubber would be nice.
The OE Spec 295 width MPSS on the Fxx M5/M6 has an unusually large contact patch for the section width (11.8" on the M5, 12" on the M6). It's the same or even larger than most of the 305 section offerings provide. A 325/25-20 is the next size up with any benefit, but it also makes the car even more snappy and unpredictable.
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