[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

you can't hoon in an awd. how is the rs6 or e63 a better all around car?

go get one of those then. stop blaming mcars for your own tastes.

The RS6 and E63 AMG are better all-around cars. You can say the M5 is more fun but that's the only thing the M5 really has over the RS6 and E63. AWD may be utter s--t to you, so you may think that the RS6 and E63 are not as good cars but on paper they are better all-around cars than the RWD M5. This is not even a debate.

And what would you classify as "hooning"? While it may not be as easy and you might have to work a bit harder, I'm pretty sure you can make the RS6 and E63 do stupid things the M5 can easily do because it's driven by two wheels.

[N & M]

Traction Control Lights will be flashing and the Mercedes in the next lane will leave you dead in the water...

Do you see it?

[///M-Furby]

Originally Posted by Mako

Maybe this is their plan, sell the X6M and X4M to people who want AWD, I know if the X4M comes out around 500hp I will consider trading in my M3 for it. Don't get me wrong, I love the F80 M3 BUT where I live there haven't been many days where the conditions are just right for using the car to its full potential, its not fun when you have to be super careful when accelerating every time (didn't have that issue with my W204 C63 which had similar power).

Maybe the Gran Coupes will get AWD as the experiment, M6 and M4 gran coupes next gen with AWD, everything else RWD...

i would consider x4m, but im not a have of suv or x-overs, so it will take a bunch of convincing. i am a car fan. i would never consider x5 or x3. the driving dynamics are too different for me.

but having xdrive on m3 where i no longer fish tail is great. while in germany, i fishtailed. it was a dry road and i didnt even floor it. sheesh, what happens in launch control

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by N & M

Traction Control Lights will be flashing and the Mercedes in the next lane will leave you dead in the water...

Do you see it?

I don't have a M car currently.
I have a tuned 335 with 275/30-19 on a 9.5 wheel in the rear. I added a proper LSD.

If the ground is not perfect and I mash the throttle, the dash lights up.

I can only imagine how bad this is on a new M3/4/5.
The reason why you hit a plateau for
0-60 times is all about traction. Look at all the high HP cars. They all have hit the wall for 0-60. This is both rear and AWD.

I'd like to see a good AWD M car.
Until it happens we just have pretty cars that smoke tires.

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by David70

Good to see, last thing we need is for M's to get even heavier. They should focus more on the weight and less on higher HP as weight reduction benefits all factors of performance (and economy). My opinion is they need the higher hp for advertising and same hp but losing a couple of hundred pounds, while probably a better over package wouldn't interest people as much.

As the owner of two RWD cars, besides the 0-10 all out acceleration and driving in really bad weather I don't see enough of a benefit to deal with the weight, cost, added maintenance and repair.

I agree. Hp is relatively easy to make nowadays with minor tuning, especially with these newer turbo engines. It is harder however to loose weight when you are dealing with a car like the M5. It's bigger in general than the smaller 335 and M3.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Mako

Maybe this is their plan, sell the X6M and X4M to people who want AWD...

Maybe the Gran Coupes will get AWD as the experiment, M6 and M4 gran coupes next gen with AWD, everything else RWD...

Both possible, though the latter seems a bit unlikely. And the former sort of misses the mark.

Here's another possibility: AWD is packaged only with ZCP.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

The RS6 and E63 AMG are better all-around cars. You can say the M5 is more fun but that's the only thing the M5 really has over the RS6 and E63. AWD may be utter s--t to you, so you may think that the RS6 and E63 are not as good cars but on paper they are better all-around cars than the RWD M5. This is not even a debate.

And what would you classify as "hooning"? While it may not be as easy and you might have to work a bit harder, I'm pretty sure you can make the RS6 and E63 do stupid things the M5 can easily do because it's driven by two wheels.

sideways with a lot of tire smoke is hooning for me. Its harder because you won't ever get the slip angles to drift because it's pretty much impossible with the front wheels giving you grip.

I am partial to the the rs7 though. For a DD i would rock that and bruise the highway all day and its the best looking.

But for me, a car is supposed to be fun.

Please tell me how they are both better all around cars though. They're all the same but m5 will always handle better.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

It may be a hard pill for enthusiasts to swallow, but with with each generation getting even more power, it's apparently only a matter of time before BMW's M-badged cars are no longer rear-wheel drive only.

"It is the only way."
- Darth Vader (David Prowse / James Earl Jones, Star Wars Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back)

But yeah. Let's hope BMW leaves us a Smoky Burnout mode.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

sideways with a lot of tire smoke is hooning for me. Its harder because you won't ever get the slip angles to drift because it's pretty much impossible with the front wheels giving you grip. ...

Agree. Just lighting up 2 tires isn't "drifting." It's either:

1. Plowing, or

2. Power-sliding.

The only real drift is the 4-wheel drift, and no you don't need generate any tire smoke doing it.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Agree. Just lighting up 2 tires isn't "drifting." It's either:

1. Plowing, or

2. Power-sliding.

The only real drift is the 4-wheel drift, and no you don't need generate any tire smoke doing it.

My sarcasm meter is broken.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Agree. Just lighting up 2 tires isn't "drifting." It's either:

1. Plowing, or

2. Power-sliding.

The only real drift is the 4-wheel drift, and no you don't need generate any tire smoke doing it.

More fun with tire smoke though. Throw it in to get the angle, recover and power out with 600 horsepower and tons of smoke haha

And lol at the plowing. Yeah that'll be fun

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by sakson

Then make a nicely balanced car again that can actually put the power down. Not a burnout muscle car that spins its tires even at highway speeds. This goes for the current M3/4 as well.

Buy a 440

[David70]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

The RS6 and E63 AMG are better all-around cars. You can say the M5 is more fun but that's the only thing the M5 really has over the RS6 and E63. AWD may be utter s--t to you, so you may think that the RS6 and E63 are not as good cars but on paper they are better all-around cars than the RWD M5. This is not even a debate.

And what would you classify as "hooning"? While it may not be as easy and you might have to work a bit harder, I'm pretty sure you can make the RS6 and E63 do stupid things the M5 can easily do because it's driven by two wheels.

To make the car even a better all around car you then add All Season tires?
To get an even better all around vehicle get the X5M? It will do most of what the above will do but also carry a lot of stuff and have great ground clearance.

That's the problem with trying to make a "do all" vehicle, next thing you know you end up with an overweight SUV with all season tires that does everything pretty well, the numbers are pretty good, and the volume buyers are pretty happy with the car.

From the lead behind the ATS-V -

Q: Did you consider all-wheel-drive for this car?

Buttermore: This was always a rear drive architecture. And for ultimate track performance that is the way to go. AWD is expensive and heavy and bad for vehicle dynamics. It will give you worse fuel economy, worse high-speed handling. There are so many things that are negative — the one thing it does well is accelerate quickly so your 0-60 times are better. It has its applications, but not in the V-series.

[SkeezyLP]

The right call !

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by GMe90

The next question is whether MT will be offered.

LOL

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by BMWSource

When you drive a BMW you gotta go with the I6

Don't worry, with Jaguar new Ingenium I6, you will have a 400-500 hp option. Jag seemingly is the one that created the I6 sports sedan. And even Mercedes is supposedly going back to the I6.

[BMWSource]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Don't worry, with Jaguar new Ingenium I6, you will have a 400-500 hp option. Jag seemingly is the one that created the I6 sports sedan. And even Mercedes is supposedly going back to the I6.

Nope! BMW 4 life

[BMWSource]

Originally Posted by Nordkeyz73

If the M5 was staying RWD WITH a manual, I would choose that any day, just saying an option would be nice like a switchable bias (I know it adds weight... )

True

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Agree. Just lighting up 2 tires isn't "drifting." It's either:

1. Plowing, or

2. Power-sliding.

The only real drift is the 4-wheel drift, and no you don't need generate any tire smoke doing it.

Plowing and power sliding are not fast. Let's make BMW Fast Again! AWD!

[Boss330]

Regardless of it's RWD architecture, the F10 M5 has the fastest Nurburgring lap time of the "Super Sedans" (E63 AMG and RS6/RS7). The Audi is understeer central with it's nose heavy "engine in front of transmission which is forward of the front axle centerline" layout, so they have never really been a great handling concept.

I even think the M5 has the better Hockenheim short lap time of these cars.

When buying a M5, I wouldn't consider it's "all round capabilities" as one of the main aspects (as in best winter and bad weather vehicle). To me, the car that offers the better handling and fun factor would be on top of the list. If I need a good all round vehicle I'd get something sensible and frugal. Fortunately, the M5 isn't about those values (at least to me)...

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Regardless of it's RWD architecture, the F10 M5 has the fastest Nurburgring lap time of the "Super Sedans" (E63 AMG and RS6/RS7). The Audi is understeer central with it's nose heavy "engine in front of transmission which is forward of the front axle centerline" layout, so they have never really been a great handling concept.

I even think the M5 has the better Hockenheim short lap time of these cars.

When buying a M5, I wouldn't consider it's "all round capabilities" as one of the main aspects (as in best winter and bad weather vehicle). To me, the car that offers the better handling and fun factor would be on top of the list. If I need a good all round vehicle I'd get something sensible and frugal. Fortunately, the M5 isn't about those values (at least to me)...

According to SA's tests, both non CP and M5CP have have the quicker time out of these cars at Hockenheim.

Though SA have not tested the RS7 performance yet but I doubt it will make a difference in terms of track performance.

[kevinlevrone]

Originally Posted by Bajaz001

I dont get this AWD hype. Freakin LaFerrari with 9xx HP (hybrid with tons of Nm) is RWD, and why exactly M5 can't stay RWD?

Because LaFerrari weights half a ton less than the M5, and it has 345mm-wide rear tires with the engine pushing on them.