[Eddien123]

Originally Posted by BMWSource

All BMW's should stay RWD forever. Enthusiasts want the power of RWD especially in the ///M cars. I don't agree with the new BMW ///M5 having AWD. Enthusiasts like me prefer RWD any day over AWD, & AWD is useless. BMW should not sell AWD ///M cars, any BMW ///M or non ///M should always be RWD no matter what type of vehicle sedan coupe etc. As a BMW Enthusiast myself I'm happy with the good old RWD & a manual. I'm also sad to see the 6 speed manual transmission no longer being offered on the F10 ///M5 & ///M6. Thank goodness the ///M2, ///M3, & ///M4 still have a 6 speed manual. Save the manuals.

Problem is most sales to BMWs now a days aren't enthusiasts. Even m owners buy them for the badge. It's only a select few who still select the 6-speed rwd set up.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Eddien123

That's good news. But hopefully a manual is offered as well. Either way im sure awd was considered but then they realized that the additional weight may not be the best idea? Who knows

While the RWD/AWD is still up for debate, the manual transmission is dead on the M5. I believe there was an article stating this and that the take rate of MT on the M5 were non-existent.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Racer20

You pro-AWD guys...

How about pro-choice? You know - RWD standard with optional AWD. I think choice is good and I'll bet you agree...

More choice is better.

See - you do.

Should the M2 have gone AWD, DCT only, with a turbo 4cylinder? That's what all the competition is doing . . .

Whatever gets the job done is the best solution. But at the end of the day, how much worse a car will the new TT RS be than an M2, really, due to the fact it is using that drivetrain configuration (well, with one additional cylinder) instead of RWD with longitudinal inline 6? I guess we'll know soon. My guess is that the TT RS is going to offer some performance advantages in the hands of capable drivers and that this will show up in some reviews.

Originally Posted by Racer20

And for those of you who are saying BMW will lose sales and market share . . . that's not really a concern for M cars. There will be as many people buying them BECAUSE they are the only RWD option as there will be NOT buying them because they don't have AWD.

M cars sell because they are M cars, and will outsell V series, AMG, and RS cars just on their own merits.

You are correct in that snapshotting sales numbers isn't really the driver in these low volume segments. However, long-term brand value does hang in the balance to some degree. If competitors start building better performing high performance cars (and in some cases, based on popular opinion, this has already begun to happen) than BMW does, BMW now needs to find new ways to compel customers to buy their M products.

Maybe BMW can sell more performance cars by remaining steadfast to a RWD dogma and advertising this as a more pure approach, closer to the metal of motorsports if you will. But at some point the newer crop of buyer stops listening to this and just buys the faster car - even if (as the case often is) it is only the faster car on paper, where in reality any car in the class is capable of far more than this customer can make use of.

In other words, you and I might choose the car that's more like racecar, but guy who just wants whatever the review says is best doesn't ultimately care if his car shares a platform with a VW Golf.

[uhn2000]

I have been absent for a while and lurking but back now to hang with you all. Miss my days of ///M, hopefully back sometime soon!

First off I want to know who here has ever owned the MT-F10M5? I have and it was nothing to write home about, drop the MT and focus on the car and keeping MT for less "turbo" engines like the M2/M3/M4 where its a good fit.

Further, unless BMW can make an AWD system like the one in my FF (torque distribution and "2 transmissions" for weight purposes) then don't bother. All the other AWD drives I have experienced feel lifeless in dynamics and very heavy. This comes from owning and driving the following cars - Cayenne Turbo, RS7, Panamera Turbo, R8. If they can figure out how to put the power down better then its all solved.

If you want an AWD ///M get an X5 or X6 both great rides but suffer the same fate as the aforementioned. Maybe they still come out with an AWD ///M type car but I don't think it is needed and not a deal breaker for those that really want the true ///M sedan experience. My 2 cents

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

The M5 currently has 560hp. 40 more hp will make a world of a difference?

It's 600hp now, but later on it may be 650hp for ZCP. And that's to keep up with the competition who might go to 700hp or more, and be able to use it all off of the line too. Just saying, it's a long product cycle as you know.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by sdshah

Major mistake by BMW.

not really....but i guess you have the awd pcar lol

[freezey]

Anyone know if they will offer stick also?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Because you're thinking like a car enthusiast who only cares about the idea of having a RWD drivetrain without considering what everyone else is doing in this segment and how xDrive would actually be quite beneficial given the type of car the M5 has become. The LaFerrari could have 2000HP with RWD and it would be perfectly fine because you're only driving it under certain conditions vs. the M5 which is meant to be driven all year and under any conditions.

I'm not saying xDrive is the answer for the G30 M5 but people need to start letting go of the idea that RWD still makes sense in a car that has become nothing more than large luxury cruiser that will likely have 600HP+/500TQ+. Go watch any Chris Harris review on the RS6 or E63 AMG, sure these two might lose that little bit of fun being AWD, but they strike the balance of still being fun while arguably being a better all-around car than the M5.

you can't hoon in an awd. how is the rs6 or e63 a better all around car?

go get one of those then. stop blaming mcars for your own tastes.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

If people really care about AWD in this segment over other factors and have to buy BMW, there are two great alternatives.

550xi
X5m

Those vehicles are not in this segment though. People who care about AWD in this segment do not have to buy BMW and will more than likely buy Audi or Mercedes instead.

[Eddien123]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

While the RWD/AWD is still up for debate, the manual transmission is dead on the M5. I believe there was an article stating this and that the take rate of MT on the M5 were non-existent.

I know what you're referring to. Honestly it doesn't concern me as I have no intentions of ever owning one. And I like to see the brand I like best the competition so if a DCT makes it the best then I'm fine with it. I know f10 manuals were a rare thing

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by John Tanglewood

Why say this? BMW breaks a new sales record every quarter. I think their strategy department is very in-touch with reality.

I mean I agree with you, an M5 with ~600hp should have AWD, just so you can get off the line. But not sure how it can be seen as a mistake if they are still trying to keep M branding true to its roots by way of sticking with RWD as long as possible.

Honestly I see it both ways, just looking for your rationale too.

Giving the public the option is empowering to the buyer. People have different needs and honestly this generation of Fxx cars having power cut due to not being able to power down is comical. It was funny at first but got annoying quickly. My F8X even with 305's I found this happening.

M5 is 110k+ give me weight savings and AWD for this price. It's not a cheap number - I should be able to get whatever I want.

Also, those sales numbers they are destroying are from all the 328 x3 etc they sell. Competition is getting stiff - even Jag is competing in this space now.

[Law]

Originally Posted by Mdecisive

It's a shame, gone are the glory days of what M used to be.. I know I'm flogging a dead horse but can't help but think What I'd give to have one more generation of high singing N/A "S" coded M engines again

While it is a dead horse, I don't think anyone can be blamed for reminiscing what M stood for during the first 35+ years of its existence.

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Those vehicles are not in this segment though. People who care about AWD in this segment do not have to buy BMW and will more than likely buy Audi or Mercedes instead.

Why should I have to go another manu to get a single option on a car? If BMW heard that statement they would probably give the car AWD right away. They don't want people going to other brands. No company in the world ever wants any willing customer to go the competition.

[3M TAPE]

I feel like they are watering down the M names.
M2 = spiritually M3
M3 = spiritually M5
M4 = identity lost
M5 = identity lost (if it comes in AWD)
M6 = M6

[dsad1]

I am confused why everyone is mad. The below sentence to me means that there will be a rwd and an awd m5. Or am I just reading this wrong?

That's the word according to M division's CEO Frank van Meel. Speaking with Autocar, he said rear-wheel drive would always remain the default configuration for M cars, but an all-wheel-drive option was inevitable. It will have to be rear-biased and will be different than xDrive, but it will still send power to all four wheels.

[sakson]

Originally Posted by Bajaz001

I dont get this AWD hype. Freakin LaFerrari with 9xx HP (hybrid with tons of Nm) is RWD, and why exactly M5 can't stay RWD?

You dont like RWD, get fuckin 550xi.

You're missing the point. It's not AWD hype. On the contrary. Most people here prefer RWD. But RWD done right where the car can actually put the power down properly. M division is becoming like the old AMG - too much power and torque and not enough balance.

More powerful cars such as Porsches, Ferraris and Mclarens seem to put the power down just fine, while the new M cars are lighting up the rear wheels as soon as you touch the throttle. BMW needs to either go back to the drawing board, or make it AWD.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by GMe90

The next question is whether MT will be offered.

I will literally eat my shoe if it does.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Bajaz001

I dont get this AWD hype. Freakin LaFerrari with 9xx HP (hybrid with tons of Nm) is RWD, and why exactly M5 can't stay RWD?

You dont like RWD, get fuckin 550xi.

I'm a RWD till I die kind of guy, but to be fair the La Ferrari costs at least 10x more than the M5 and was designed from scratch to handle that power. At the end of the day, the M5 is just a highly modified 5-Series.

[raysspl]

Word on the street is that this will be DCT only.....

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by sakson

You're missing the point. It's not AWD hype. On the contrary. Most people here prefer RWD. But RWD done right where the car can actually put the power down properly. M division is becoming like the old AMG - too much power and torque and not enough balance.

More powerful cars such as Porsches, Ferraris and Mclarens seem to put the power down just fine, while the new M cars are lighting up the rear wheels as soon as you touch the throttle. BMW needs to either go back to the drawing board, or make it AWD.

Exactly.

I would add that the examples you gave of powerful RWD cars with solid traction have the engine in a different place. I'm not sure there is a practical traction solution for a sedan other than AWD.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by sdshah

Why should I have to go another manu to get a single option on a car?

Exactly the point of my response. People won't choose another BMW product that doesn't meet their needs; they will instead choose another manufacturer's product that does.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by ///M-Furby

i want AWD M. then i can get all the power down without the car squirrling around. 600 hp cannot be used on two wheels. plus awd = better handling

Maybe this is their plan, sell the X6M and X4M to people who want AWD, I know if the X4M comes out around 500hp I will consider trading in my M3 for it. Don't get me wrong, I love the F80 M3 BUT where I live there haven't been many days where the conditions are just right for using the car to its full potential, its not fun when you have to be super careful when accelerating every time (didn't have that issue with my W204 C63 which had similar power).

Maybe the Gran Coupes will get AWD as the experiment, M6 and M4 gran coupes next gen with AWD, everything else RWD...