[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by BlueBy

Ps, there is nothing wrong with following BMW's oil service interval, most people do. However, remember one thing: BMW, like all other car manufacturers, they are in the business of selling cars - making profit. I'm just sayin'

Yes thats for sure. And they're also in the business of KEEPING as much of that profit for themselves as they can. If you think of a warranty much like an insurance company. If at any point it's worth it for them to investigate an issue and deny a claim, they will, make no mistake. And thats not just BMW, its ANY thing that has a warranty. It's just a matter if it's worth the time and expense of doing so. The vast majority of the time, it's more cost effective from a monetary and PR perspective to just fix the issue, and many times they have to anyway as its legitimately an issue with a part, so of course they cover it in those events also, even if it was caused by the customer. But big repairs they definitely investigate and will try in any event they can to not pay for a repair, so long as the cost of the investigation and fighting it doesnt exceed just repairing it.

Just be aware that ANY deviation from 1) the recommendations of BMW, and 2) ANY modification that is not supported by BMW such as intake, tuning, suspension, spacers, even exhaust (if its not the MPE) COULD cause a warranty denial if they wanted to be A holes.

Most of the time, it's unlikely, but it happens, and if they wanted to fight it they could, and have deep enough pockets to bury anyone if they felt strongly enough about it.

For instance: i'm a real estate developer.... I had a person buy a house from me that about 2 months after moving in (not a brand new home, this was a major remodel) the roof had a tiny leak. Well come to find out this happened after a major storm and there was debris all over the roof and yard from branches and other things. This was a roof mounted AC unit where the leak was coming from. I repaired it for free. However, I probably could have fought it if I wanted to, because its entirely possible branch or something from the storm hit the AC unit or smacked the area where the roof penetration was. I could have said, sorry it's not on me. It's on you.

fast forward a couple more months, they called for something else, this house had no warranty from the builder mind you, although I did purchase a "home warranty" for them at closing. 3rd party warranty that typically cover very little in the way of anything, but they wanted one and negotiated it into the purchase price. I was just doing the right thing by engaging them, however I offered no warranty. The 3rd party warranty company was who they need to engage. Which they did, and they denied another claim. So they came to me. It had to do with a gas line in the laundry room that they had a plumber come out tee'd off of the line (going to the hot water heater) to change the clothes dryer to gas, instead of the electric that I put in. Why? I dont know... at any rate, they had an issue. Well in this event I had to tell them sorry. I can not any longer touch anything in this house. Youve modified it from the original plans I permitted with the city, I dont know if the plumber pulled permits for the gas line, I dont know if he was licensed, and regardless, I didnt install a gas line for a dryer, I only had one for the tankless hot water heater. Since youve had someone out and messed with this, I can no longer be called for anything, because I have no idea who or what caused any issues. What if I then mess with his work, and an issue comes up then, whose fault is it now? Who's to blame? I didn't do that work, and I didnt inspect it or know if it's been inspected at all. As much as I would like to handle it for you, I cant.... The warranty company denied them, the plumber denied them, and so did i. I felt bad. But at the same time, I cant be dealing with modifications or deviations they made and still be able to help them if something went wrong.

[BlueBy]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

Yes thats for sure. And they're also in the business of KEEPING as much of that profit for themselves as they can. If you think of a warranty much like an insurance company. If at any point it's worth it for them to investigate an issue and deny a claim, they will, make no mistake. And thats not just BMW, its ANY thing that has a warranty. It's just a matter if it's worth the time and expense of doing so. The vast majority of the time, it's more cost effective from a monetary and PR perspective to just fix the issue, and many times they have to anyway as its legitimately an issue with a part, so of course they cover it in those events also, even if it was caused by the customer. But big repairs they definitely investigate and will try in any event they can to not pay for a repair, so long as the cost of the investigation and fighting it doesnt exceed just repairing it.

Just be aware that ANY deviation from 1) the recommendations of BMW, and 2) ANY modification that is not supported by BMW such as intake, tuning, suspension, spacers, even exhaust (if its not the MPE) COULD cause a warranty denial if they wanted to be A holes.

Most of the time, it's unlikely, but it happens, and if they wanted to fight it they could, and have deep enough pockets to bury anyone if they felt strongly enough about it.

For instance: i'm a real estate developer.... I had a person buy a house from me that about 2 months after moving in (not a brand new home, this was a major remodel) the roof had a tiny leak. Well come to find out this happened after a major storm and there was debris all over the roof and yard from branches and other things. This was a roof mounted AC unit where the leak was coming from. I repaired it for free. However, I probably could have fought it if I wanted to, because its entirely possible branch or something from the storm hit the AC unit or smacked the area where the roof penetration was. I could have said, sorry it's not on me. It's on you.

fast forward a couple more months, they called for something else, this house had no warranty from the builder mind you, although I did purchase a "home warranty" for them at closing. 3rd party warranty that typically cover very little in the way of anything, but they wanted one and negotiated it into the purchase price. I was just doing the right thing by engaging them, however I offered no warranty. The 3rd party warranty company was who they need to engage. Which they did, and they denied another claim. So they came to me. It had to do with a gas line in the laundry room that they had a plumber come out tee'd off of the line (going to the hot water heater) to change the clothes dryer to gas, instead of the electric that I put in. Why? I dont know... at any rate, they had an issue. Well in this event I had to tell them sorry. I can not any longer touch anything in this house. Youve modified it from the original plans I permitted with the city, I dont know if the plumber pulled permits for the gas line, I dont know if he was licensed, and regardless, I didnt install a gas line for a dryer, I only had one for the tankless hot water heater. Since youve had someone out and messed with this, I can no longer be called for anything, because I have no idea who or what caused any issues. What if I then mess with his work, and an issue comes up then, whose fault is it now? Who's to blame? I didn't do that work, and I didnt inspect it or know if it's been inspected at all. As much as I would like to handle it for you, I cant.... The warranty company denied them, the plumber denied them, and so did i. I felt bad. But at the same time, I cant be dealing with modifications or deviations they made and still be able to help them if something went wrong.

Good point, and I hear ya.

I personally think BMW noticed his low risk mods and decided to use it as nuggets to deny him.

In many cases, it depends on the dealership. Some are cool as crap, and others are sticks. I personally have good relationships with two local dealerships/SA's and techs and they do not care.

I think the OP has a big fight on his/her hands and I do not think BMW it's going to end up on the canvas. Best bet: try as much as possible to get the Insurance Co. to cover it.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by BlueBy

Good point, and I hear ya.

I personally think BMW noticed his low risk mods and decided to use it as nuggets to deny him.

In many cases, it depends on the dealership. Some are cool as crap, and others are sticks. I personally have good relationships with two local dealerships/SA's and techs and they do not care.

I think the OP has a big fight on his/her hands and I do not think BMW it's going to end up on the canvas. Best bet: try as much as possible to get the Insurance Co. to cover it.

Just the last thing to add to this... While im sure there are dealers that for some reason want to be A holes about things like this, its a lot more BMW than the dealer. BMW makes the decision on all warranty claims based on dealer diagnosis, except in situations where it's a catastrophic failure. I would imagine there is some sort of $ threshold to where they accept the dealers recommendation with out further investigation, and over that they send the rep out and do a deeper dive.

At any rate, I never understand why dealers or certain SA and techs want to act like police officers. Theyre going to get paid for sure if they produce a warranty claim. And if they try to sabotage a warranty claim it's 50/50 if they get paid or not. Because if I just take it elsewhere they just shot themselves in the foot. Which I imagine most would take elsewhere if BMW decides not to replace the motor. Most would take it to an indy shop at that point, and pay way less, so in essence the dealer just cost themselves a 30-50k warranty repair order. Odd, but thats the mentality.

[STi from DSM]

Never something you want to read about! Sorry you had to deal with this! What you need to do is find out what kind of vehicle the service advisor drives and get some nice dog poop to smear on the underside of his door handle. Lol jk. To point to an Exhaust for any of this is quite ridiculous, and pointing to an intake although less ridiculous than the exhaust is still pretty out there.

[5tony]

I would start by naming this Atlanta dealership so we can avoid them at all cost. Probably start posting about this issue on every Atlanta BMW Facebook page you can find too. Many of the dealerships have someone stalking those pages. Just state the facts. Don't insult or call anyone in particular out. Good luck!

[Powerwhee]

Sorry you have to deal with this. I would just rebuild with a forged engine.

I am an attorney who has dealt with BMW before. Unfortunately, this is a losing case because you admitted you drove through a puddle of water with an aftermarket intake installed, which then led to the car acting weird. BMW is going to say the car was driven outside normal parameters, regardless of the reality of the situation. And I think most people in a jury would side with them, unless your lawyer could hire an expert who convinced the jury it was impossible for the water to cause the engine to die.

So, because you have an uphill case in court, I can see why BMW is treating you like this. The tune/intake/exhaust denial aspect is odd, but legally irrelevant given the admission regarding driving through water.

[FC]

Originally Posted by BlueBy

Let me clear up what I meant regarding BMW's service intervals. I choose to never wait for the 10K or plus miles interval to change the oil. I always change it sooner, but I do allow BMW (the dealership) to change it at the recommended intervals. Therefore, in the eyes of BMW, the car is meeting their recommendations, but in the eyes of others who know me and myself, I am exceeding it for the better. I follow this same practice with the sparkplugs and so on.

Some of my car friends call it overkill, but I have followed this personal "best practice" of mine with all my current and previous vehicles - new & used for years and thus far, I am batting a 1.000 in the avoiding a major engine/trans issue arena. Or I have been incredibly lucky to have never experienced engine failures, oil smoke, oil consumption, fueling dramas, spark issues and the likes with any of my cars.


I hope this clears thing up a little better.

I've always done exactly the same thing, particularly on BMW's with the free service.

[ONE_slow_m5]

It sounds like everyone is trying to get out of a very expensive ticket

Sorry your are going through this . If you need help please reach out to a shop i work with . This ship specializes in bmw m Engines. They have build over 1000 of these engines now.

Www.mypureperformance.com

Originally Posted by Led_Zep_Fan

I'm posting in hopes of gaining some insight on a major warranty issue I'm currently facing. I apologize in advance for the long post.

I purchased my 2021 M5 Competition new in October 2020. 43 miles on the odometer. Up until a couple weeks ago, I have had zero issues with the car. It has been a great vehicle overall. On 1/12/2024 while driving home on the interstate, I noticed a knocking sound coming from the engine. This was a routine commute, nothing out of the ordinary. I brought the car into the dealership the next day. The service technician listened to the engine and told me he suspected a rod bearing failure or some other major structural issue. The car has 41,038 miles currently and is under the factory warranty. Due to this being a potentially very expensive issue, BMW sent one of their specialists out to inspect the engine. I received a call a few days later from my service advisor informing me that the engine was found to have a bent rod and a damaged piston. Basically the engine is toast and needs to be replaced.

Here's the shocker: he informed me that when the technician checked the ECU, the car was found to have been "tuned" (the service advisor's words) and would therefore not be covered under the warranty. When I asked for further details, he told me that the computer flagged four values in the software that did not match the expected values. He could not tell me any additional details on what exactly had been altered. I was blindsided by this as I have NEVER tuned the car in any form or fashion. I am very aware that this can void the warranty and it is not something I would have risked. I also do not track the car or use it for anything other than a daily driver.

I had a talk with the service manager at the dealership on what might have caused this failure. We recently had some heavy rainfall and I did recall driving through some standing water on the road 3 days prior to the knocking. He suspected that the damage was due to water getting into the engine. If that was the case, it would be considered an "act of god" and would be covered under my regular insurance. So, I filed a claim with my insurance provider. Their inspector examined the car a couple days ago and there was apparently no evidence of water in the engine. There is currently an oil analysis pending to further evaluate this, and those results should be back in a week or so. If no evidence of water is found, my insurance will deny an engine replacement since the car is still under the factory warranty.

The car has had some modifications including an Eisenmann race exhaust (this is a catback system, no valves) and Eventuri air intakes. It has the stock downpipes, stock cats, no other powertrain modifications at all. The exhaust system was installed by a reputable independent shop and the intake was installed by myself. I called the shop that performed the exhaust install and spoke with the owner who performed the work himself. He assured me that they did not touch the ECU. I believe him as I did not ask for any sort of "tune" nor does the invoice from that job reflect anything of the sort. He told me that they do not even have the capability to tune the car there. Other than that, the car has only ever been serviced at BMW dealerships and I have all of those records.

Just this evening, I was reviewing the old service records and I remembered that there was a recall/delivery stop shortly after I purchased the car. It was a fuel tank ventilation issue (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...84574-9999.pdf). The ECU was reprogrammed to correct this when I brought it in for its 1200 mile service. I remember that this completely wiped all my settings and basically reset the car. I am thinking that this could be the source of the altered values in the ECU. I truly have no other explanation.

So here I am with my insurance provider denying the claim due to no evidence of water in the engine and BMW denying the claim due to the ECU not matching what they expect. And a new engine for this car runs around $40-50K installed. Not exactly pocket change. I am very frustrated as I know for a fact that I have not tuned the car. I'm really not sure what my next move should be. Is there a possibility that something nefarious is going on with BMW? I hate to think that, but clearly something is not adding up. The ECU update at the 1200 mile service is giving me some hope of an explanation, but I'm just not optimistic at this point. I'm not sure how I would even prove that. I'm thinking that I probably just need to lawyer up at this point, but I was really hoping to avoid that. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Happy to provide any further details.

TLDR: M5 engine failed under warranty (possible hydrolock but no evidence of that so far), ECU values appear to have been altered, BMW denying warranty claim as a result. Looking at a $50K engine replacement and hoping for advice on next steps.

[Brisco51]

I don’t think a engine is 50k bro lol. There are shops that will build and install you a 1000hp built engine and dyno and tune it for 15-20k. Just do that.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Brisco51

I don’t think a engine is 50k bro lol. There are shops that will build and install you a 1000hp built engine and dyno and tune it for 15-20k. Just do that.

I do think that it is exactly that Are there other ways to do that ? Of course. But here it is for you

[pbonsalb]

Yes, it is possible to spend $56k. But that is probably a dealer price for a new motor and installation. If it is not your money and insurance or a warranty is paying, who cares, right? But if it is your money and $56k is a lot of money to you, then there are other options as has been pointed out to you. There are used motors (your broken motor was used), there are stock and upgraded rebuilt motors. Depending on what you choose, you could be back on the road for as little as $15k.

[LOW4LYF]

In every warranty case the dealer must do a visual inspection and report back in the system. I'm sure the vehicle was flagged and warranty denied by BMW because of the aftermarket intake and exhaust. The dealership itself can't approve or deny warranty work.