[CarlosM4]

I moved from an F06 M6 to the F90. The shifts aren't slow. The 2nd to 1st downshift is not as crisp and as quick as in the M-DCT when you are braking hard. Anyother shift, dare I say it, the performance is the same.

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by AMOR

Hi guys,

I'm looking at F90 as my possible upgrade car candidate from the F80 and I love the car even more now that the new 3-series has been announced.
I've heard that the engine internals have been upgraded and that the new 4.4 V8 is now more reliable, but what about the gearbox? It's the standard ZF automatic? Seems like an achiles heel of the car. Taking into account the amount of torque it should handle even on a stock car. Thanks for your input.

The original post was not about shift speed but torque handling. Only a few people actually addressed the topic. The auto should be able to handle a lot of torque as shown by what modified rs7 and other automatic performance cars have handled. However that being said I would imagine a clutch kit and bigger transmission cooler would be coming out soon. The old adage is that heat is an automatic transmissions worst enemy. So keep it cool and keep it longer.

[CarlosM4]

ZF8 from the M5 is not a common ZF8 with torque converter. It is a wet clutch transmission setup which can stand even more heat. The M5 also has a special intercooling system for the tranny.

[CarlosM4]

And the M-DCT would slip on anything over 670whp, if the clutch wasn't swapped for a tougher pack. So to my eyes, the new system is better.

The X5M and X6M has a similar setup and it can withstand (stock), 700+whp without breaking down. Let's see what tune companies will say in the future

[tdlondon]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

And the M-DCT would slip on anything over 670whp, if the clutch wasn't swapped for a tougher pack. So to my eyes, the new system is better.

The X5M and X6M has a similar setup and it can withstand (stock), 700+whp without breaking down. Let's see what tune companies will say in the future

Exatamente! This is why I also brought up the new Koenigsegg approach to the Regera with a torque converter. No (affordable) clutch system can handle that amount of power with reduced loss and friction.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by tdlondon

Exatamente! This is why I also brought up the new Koenigsegg approach to the Regera with a torque converter. No (affordable) clutch system can handle that amount of power with reduced loss and friction.

Nice Bom encontrar alguém falando português no fórum. Yep I totally agree. Dual Clutch Systems have reached a limit, and cars have surpassed it, that is why Dual Clutch is being dumped by Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and others.

[Miko M]

I want to share this video because I am big MT fanatic.
Sense talking about transmission I like to add this video to mix things up and let the MT guys have a good laugh

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Zero issues... and a layman who isnt a DCT purist fan boy wont even know the difference in the real world. BMW has done a great job with the electronics that allow this ZF to perform like it does. The ZF can easily handle more tq than the DCT and TCU does a great job transferring driver input to the shifts up and down.

YEP agree with Vic, great job BMW.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5

YEP agree with Vic, great job BMW.

Irony John: this past weekend I did a video shoot for my Remus exhaust which involved rollers, drive bys, launches, and cruising with a camera mount on a van along side via all processes.

I probably did over 40 manual accelerations from digs and rollers and honestly I didnt ever once think "damn this thing needs to be a DCT". Not once. And Im talking speeds from zero to 150 plus, 30 to 100, 60 to 120, etc. All of these required at least one or two shifts or more. The TCU connected with the ZF is so intuitive its, in reality, no perceptible loss of shift speed. Its really in the electronics as ZF's can be sluggish (My Jag F Type R sucked but my RS7's and Bentley GT3R were good)

Maybe if two cars lined up from a roll perfectly and then ran- the milliseconds would add up... maybe LOL

[AGS]

Originally Posted by MuffinFlavored

What does TCU stand for and how do you do a fresh reset?

If it's like the DCT transmission, I believe the reset procedure was to put it into neutral and squeeze both paddle shifters for 5 seconds.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Irony John: this past weekend I did a video shoot for my Remus exhaust which involved rollers, drive bys, launches, and cruising with a camera mount on a van along side via all processes.

I probably did over 40 manual accelerations from digs and rollers and honestly I didnt ever once think "damn this thing needs to be a DCT". Not once. And Im talking speeds from zero to 150 plus, 30 to 100, 60 to 120, etc. All of these required at least one or two shifts or more. The TCU connected with the ZF is so intuitive its, in reality, no perceptible loss of shift speed. Its really in the electronics as ZF's can be sluggish (My Jag F Type R sucked but my RS7's and Bentley GT3R were good)

Maybe if two cars lined up from a roll perfectly and then ran- the milliseconds would add up... maybe LOL

BMW software has cracked it.

[STi2M3]

I do sometimes experience slow up shifts when using the paddles in S3. I usually have the car in sport not sport+, but if I need to accelerate fast in 1st or Second gear and hit the paddle at 5k rpms I can hit the rev limiter before the shift takes place. This never happened with my DCT. It seems like I have to hit the paddle much sooner than I would expect in this particular situation.

[BPMSport]

The ZF gearbox in this car is in our opinion, far superior to the DCT gearboxes. The newer automatics are far more robust than previously, and can handle quite a beating. The upsides of this transmission definitely outweigh any downsides. There will be some torque limitation during shifts. Removing these limiters results in quite the "bang" on shift, such as on the E60 M5

The DCT trans on the F10 was essentially the same thing as the E9x M3, which produced far less torque. The ZF 8 Speeds are serious transmissions that can handle quite a bit of torque, shift relatively fast, and should last. We've seen a lot of V8s with the 8HP ZFs outlast the 6HP transmissions even when paired with significantly higher output engines.

[brava09]

I find that upshifts in automatic at near redline are a bit strange, feels like it bounces off the rev limiter for a bit, anyone else experience similar?

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by brava09

I find that upshifts in automatic at near redline are a bit strange, feels like it bounces off the rev limiter for a bit, anyone else experience similar?

Not at all for me. If I get anywhere near the redline I lose boost and it takes it until half way through the next gear to get it back. I almost always use automatic for this reason. Its too hard to shift it at the exact right time manually. Auto seems to shift quite early and it feels much quicker. Here's a video of launch control shifting, which I believe is the same as auto. You can see it always shifts well before the red line, I think the rev limiter is a few hundred rpm past that.

[Trancez0r]

Originally Posted by brava09

I find that upshifts in automatic at near redline are a bit strange, feels like it bounces off the rev limiter for a bit, anyone else experience similar?

Can't say I noticed that. Here's a video where I floor it from ~100 km/h (~62 MPH) all the way to 311 km/h (193 MPH). It was set in Sport Plus with transmission in D2 automatic. You can see the shifts and RPMs. Watch from around 50 seconds in.

[durjf90m5]

The ZF 8 is not too bad however I’ve had a whole different issue with it… when I load shift on 6th gear, it started slipping initially and now sometimes on 5th gear load shifts it has started to slip.

Took it into my local dealership and they have ordered me a new transmission. They weren’t able to tell me exactly what happened. My car is just over 3 years old and has 30,000 miles (luckily I have 5 years of warranty coverage.

Not going to lie tho.. I drive it hard and have done at least 500-600 launch controls.




QUOTE=AMOR;23824293]Hi guys,

I’m looking at F90 as my possible upgrade car candidate from the F80 and I love the car even more now that the new 3-series has been announced.
I’ve heard that the engine internals have been upgraded and that the new 4.4 V8 is now more reliable, but what about the gearbox? It’s the standard ZF automatic? Seems like an achiles heel of the car. Taking into account the amount of torque it should handle even on a stock car. Thanks for your input.[/QUOTE]

[durjf90m5]

Originally Posted by Bowser330

The original post was not about shift speed but torque handling. Only a few people actually addressed the topic. The auto should be able to handle a lot of torque as shown by what modified rs7 and other automatic performance cars have handled. However that being said I would imagine a clutch kit and bigger transmission cooler would be coming out soon. The old adage is that heat is an automatic transmissions worst enemy. So keep it cool and keep it longer.

Hello hello,

So the stock F90 ZF can’t handle anymore than 750nm(550lb-ft) . My car was pushing 800nm (590lb-ft) on 100 octane (as per a TCU stress readout and told by my service advisor.

I had to take my car in because on 6th gear load shifts the transmission started slipping. Eventually it also started happening on 5th gear load shifts.

Anyways the dealer has ordered me a new transmission however it’s still on a shop from Germany. Meanwhile I’ve been driving with the broken transmission however if I’m not pushing it than it’s fine, even on 5th and 6th gears where it slips on load (full or close to full throttle).

Has anyone else experienced this issue on the 2019 F90 M5?

[nsanity]

Originally Posted by durjf90m5

Hello hello,

So the stock F90 ZF can’t handle anymore than 750nm(550lb-ft) . My car was pushing 800nm (590lb-ft) on 100 octane (as per a TCU stress readout and told by my service advisor.

I had to take my car in because on 6th gear load shifts the transmission started slipping. Eventually it also started happening on 5th gear load shifts.

Anyways the dealer has ordered me a new transmission however it’s still on a shop from Germany. Meanwhile I’ve been driving with the broken transmission however if I’m not pushing it than it’s fine, even on 5th and 6th gears where it slips on load (full or close to full throttle).

Has anyone else experienced this issue on the 2019 F90 M5?

Did you have a TCU Tune?

[pbonsalb]

The 500-600 launch controls certainly did not help. It might be rated 550 lbs but can take more if torque is reduced on shifts. Even stock M5 often make more than 550 lbs at the crank — they make that at the rear wheels.

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by durjf90m5

Hello hello,

So the stock F90 ZF can't handle anymore than 750nm(550lb-ft) . My car was pushing 800nm (590lb-ft) on 100 octane (as per a TCU stress readout and told by my service advisor.

I had to take my car in because on 6th gear load shifts the transmission started slipping. Eventually it also started happening on 5th gear load shifts.

Anyways the dealer has ordered me a new transmission however it's still on a shop from Germany. Meanwhile I've been driving with the broken transmission however if I'm not pushing it than it's fine, even on 5th and 6th gears where it slips on load (full or close to full throttle).

Has anyone else experienced this issue on the 2019 F90 M5?

Surprised the dealer is changing it despite you "over" torqueing it.

And I doubt the ZF is limited to 550lb ft. More like 553lb ft!

[somer]

lmao 500 launch controls, sometimes i really dont even know what to say