[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by vtknight

That is exactly why I posted this particular example. It really represents the best example - due to its natural DA/elevation. I think the F90 platform will be very impressive with basic tune and bolt ons. It will be close to an average run in a stock Turbo S.

That said - a 10.18 at 134 with tune and bolt ons for the 991.2 Turbo S is super solid. And it will be consistent. In your air/DA/elevation - I'm guessing the same setup will run high 10.3's(10.4)- low 10.5's at 131ish MPH during your summers. Slightly better in your cool weather. That is pretty solid as it will run those times over and over again with very little strain on the car - and still behave exactly like stock.

That is what I am convincing myself of anyway lol.

These are 3 runs on the same day at sea level around a 1000 DA on 93 octane pump zero slope 20 hz v box sport . Kline inconel exhaust and manifold . The slip is from Another 991.2 Turbo S with same mods stock tune at the track on a neutral DA . You see how consistent my car is on a non prepped surface , that's my point . Even at a worst case 10.6 that is killing a stock M5 Cp or no off the line in the real world especially on an airstrip or unprepped surface . People keep using the best M5 time, downhill tuned on race gas vs the worst Turbo S time they can find lol . The LC is sooooo easy on the Turbo S and as you see it rolls out in the 1/2 mile as well. Add a tune and it's killing any F90 period , and don't get me started about the handling difference . Only downside is the turbo 6 does not sound good stock at all . Needed exhaust immediately for me .

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I'm open minded - but it's important to note I believe your 10.49 ET claim is the quickest fully stock Turbo S in the world (at least in the wild). I see 10.6-10.7 on average. Your MPH is right on - but I would think with that ET and the 60' you say you are getting stock, you would have lost some MPH.

The next part is a definite no. 10.2 at 134 MPH without a tune - just exhaust only - is not possible as most tune and exhaust 991.2 Turbo S's are only hitting slightly better that that - and 10.2's on average - down to the MPH and 60'. Is your DA something crazy like -3000 ft?

Please note I am getting set to pick up a 991.2 Turbo S - so I would love this to be true.

134 gps terminal speed , 130- 132 mph drag strip last 60ft avg to be clear . People are touting the M5 gps speed for its "trap" so I was trying to be consistent but fully agree 134 at the strip stock tune won't happen .
G

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

These are 3 runs on the same day at sea level around a 1000 DA on 93 octane pump zero slope 20 hz v box sport . Kline inconel exhaust and manifold . The slip is from Another 991.2 Turbo S with same mods stock tune at the track on a neutral DA . You see how consistent my car is on a non prepped surface , that's my point . Even at a worst case 10.6 that is killing a stock M5 Cp or no off the line in the real world especially on an airstrip or unprepped surface . People keep using the best M5 time, downhill tuned on race gas vs the worst Turbo S time they can find lol . The LC is sooooo easy on the Turbo S and as you see it rolls out in the 1/2 mile as well. Add a tune and it's killing any F90 period , and don't get me started about the handling difference . Only downside is the turbo 6 does not sound good stock at all . Needed exhaust immediately for me .

Turbos looooove December temps. Mine do. I have my Kline in the garage. Are you running their cats or bypass pipes ? Did you get their headers too ? Are you going to tune it? If mine with exhaust runs your numbers pure stock, I'm a happy guy.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

These are 3 runs on the same day at sea level around a 1000 DA on 93 octane pump zero slope 20 hz v box sport . Kline inconel exhaust and manifold . The slip is from Another 991.2 Turbo S with same mods stock tune at the track on a neutral DA . You see how consistent my car is on a non prepped surface , that's my point . Even at a worst case 10.6 that is killing a stock M5 Cp or no off the line in the real world especially on an airstrip or unprepped surface . People keep using the best M5 time, downhill tuned on race gas vs the worst Turbo S time they can find lol . The LC is sooooo easy on the Turbo S and as you see it rolls out in the 1/2 mile as well. Add a tune and it's killing any F90 period , and don't get me started about the handling difference . Only downside is the turbo 6 does not sound good stock at all . Needed exhaust immediately for me .

Thank-you for the info. I have a few questions. And again - believe me when I say I am hoping your info is universal as I am going to be getting into a 991.2 shortly.

Your 60' is a 1.475. That is a very very good stock short time. And again - you state this is exhaust only - no tune? You maintain your MPH with a very serious short time for a stock car. Were you on stock tires or a R888? I see the slips. I see the data - but having been involved in the modding game for some time - I find it really hard to believe you just slapped on an exhaust and cut 3 tenths and added 2-3 MPH. If you ran a poor 60 - your MPH would be 135+. Exhaust is reducing back pressure - but all of these bolt ons pale compared to the tune. Maybe there is a ton of restriction on the stock exhaust I'm not aware of. From all of my friends with these cars - to my Tuners, to my friends at ES Motors - exhaust only 10.2's at 1000 DA - is pretty much unheard of - without any tune.

The good news is I will test my car fully and I truly hope I find this works for me as well. I will tune the car however.

Please know I appreciate the feedback you provided.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Thank-you for the info. I have a few questions. And again - believe me when I say I am hoping your info is universal as I am going to be getting into a 991.2 shortly.

Your 60' is a 1.475. That is a very very good stock short time. And again - you state this is exhaust only - no tune? You maintain your MPH with a very serious short time for a stock car. Were you on stock tires or a R888? I see the slips. I see the data - but having been involved in the modding game for some time - I find it really hard to believe you just slapped on an exhaust and cut 3 tenths and added 2-3 MPH. If you ran a poor 60 - your MPH would be 135+. Exhaust is reducing back pressure - but all of these bolt ons pale compared to the tune. Maybe there is a ton of restriction on the stock exhaust I'm not aware of. From all of my friends with these cars - to my Tuners, to my friends at ES Motors - exhaust only 10.2's at 1000 DA - is pretty much unheard of - without any tune.

The good news is I will test my car fully and I truly hope I find this works for me as well. I will tune the car however.

Please know I appreciate the feedback you provided.

My car had 200 cell high flow catalyst inconel exhaust, and inconel equal length manifolds. It weighed in at 3580 pounds with a full tank gas . Run were done on a 1/4 tank of 93 octane with active aero not deployed. The rear wing and front splitter slow it down after a 100mph fairly significantly difference of 3mph on 1/2 mile runs and a .2 seconds 60-130. Tires were brand new porch n-spc p zero 4's which come standard on the 991.2 TurboS . This is nothing like a any other p-zero I've used, durometer testing shows it is as soft as a Michelin SC2. It's a very aggressive tire with a very short life of maximum grip and tread for that matter. Because of construction near my work I always had new tires on it for 2 years so quick wear / heat cycling out was not an issue. I think the cars 60ft and trap speed is all in the LC. The car is aggressively slipping the clutches on launch to react in real time and put the most power down possible. It just works like magic and feels like getting shot out of a rocket and is the best LC program I have experienced in any vehicle. From a roll the car is certainly fast but the 1/4 mile performance is all in the LC. With full exhaust it consistently ran 7.3-7.4 60-130 mph vs 7.6-7.8 full stock same conditions same zero slope road. The exhaust def added power but not much up top as expected. I think it allowed faster spool and better low end tq though which helped on the LC more than up top. 10.49 131.5 mph GPS to 10.29@ 133.9 gps are the exact numbers . So only a .2 second ET gain max and 2.4 mph on the gps speed at the 1/4 with a high flow cat exhaust and a quality equal length manifold.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

My car had 200 cell high flow catalyst inconel exhaust, and inconel equal length manifolds. It weighed in at 3580 pounds with a full tank gas . Run were done on a 1/4 tank of 93 octane with active aero not deployed. The rear wing and front splitter slow it down after a 100mph fairly significantly difference of 3mph on 1/2 mile runs and a .2 seconds 60-130. Tires were brand new porch n-spc p zero 4's which come standard on the 991.2 TurboS . This is nothing like a any other p-zero I've used, durometer testing shows it is as soft as a Michelin SC2. It's a very aggressive tire with a very short life of maximum grip and tread for that matter. Because of construction near my work I always had new tires on it for 2 years so quick wear / heat cycling out was not an issue. I think the cars 60ft and trap speed is all in the LC. The car is aggressively slipping the clutches on launch to react in real time and put the most power down possible. It just works like magic and feels like getting shot out of a rocket and is the best LC program I have experienced in any vehicle. From a roll the car is certainly fast but the 1/4 mile performance is all in the LC. With full exhaust it consistently ran 7.3-7.4 60-130 mph vs 7.6-7.8 full stock same conditions same zero slope road. The exhaust def added power but not much up top as expected. I think it allowed faster spool and better low end tq though which helped on the LC more than up top. 10.49 131.5 mph GPS to 10.29@ 133.9 gps are the exact numbers . So only a .2 second ET gain max and 2.4 mph on the gps speed at the 1/4 with a high flow cat exhaust and a quality equal length manifold.

In the end - like yourself - I am going to test baseline and after that benchmark, add mods slowly and re-test. I am hoping for a low low 10 second car at high 130 MPH on average - and maybe a low 140 MPH car that breaks into the 9's at best DA/conditions. That is my sweet spot for modding. 9's and 145 MPH. I find any builds I have had that are a lot higher MPH than that are too much work and can be in the Shop - and less than that I am not happy with and am compelled to keep modding.

Appreciate all of the data and feedback!

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

In the end - like yourself - I am going to test baseline and after that benchmark, add mods slowly and re-test. I am hoping for a low low 10 second car at high 130 MPH on average - and maybe a low 140 MPH car that breaks into the 9's at best DA/conditions. That is my sweet spot for modding. 9's and 145 MPH. I find any builds I have had that are a lot higher MPH than that are too much work and can be in the Shop - and less than that I am not happy with and am compelled to keep modding.

Appreciate all of the data and feedback!

I keeping my expectations low so I’m not disappointed in the TTS. At 2500ft DA and cool temps my RC F90 runs 10.8 at 130 easily. It will slow down in the summer heat when the DA goes 4000ft. If the TTS will go 10.7 pure stock in April, I’m satisfied. Then I’ll add the Kline and think about a tune.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

I keeping my expectations low so I’m not disappointed in the TTS. At 2500ft DA and cool temps my RC F90 runs 10.8 at 130 easily. It will slow down in the summer heat when the DA goes 4000ft. If the TTS will go 10.7 pure stock in April, I’m satisfied. Then I’ll add the Kline and think about a tune.

I ran the kline on my 991.1 with the Cobb = Love.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I ran the kline on my 991.1 with the Cobb = Love.

Did you run the headers too ? In other platforms I have not measured appreciable gains with turbo headers....typically it's all about heat retention vs tiny flow gains.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Did you run the headers too ? In other platforms I have not measured appreciable gains with turbo headers....typically it's all about heat retention vs tiny flow gains.

I ran oem headers... the gains, for me, were not material enough. I dont go full bore. Im usually just an exhaust and tune guy.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I ran oem headers... the gains, for me, were not material enough. I dont go full bore. Im usually just an exhaust and tune guy.

Yes. This is also the information I have regarding the Porsche 911 Turbo platform. Bolts on have a very minor affect - it's mostly the tune that produces the gains. This isn't unusual of course - but there are some platforms - like the C7 Z06 for example - where the intake has a pretty big affect (~40 whp) due to the massive restriction on the car.

From my research and those of my friends who own them - and the Shop I speak with - Porsches don't pick up too much from exhaust/headers without the tune (and most tune with it anyway).

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Yes. This is also the information I have regarding the Porsche 911 Turbo platform. Bolts on have a very minor affect - it's mostly the tune that produces the gains. This isn't unusual of course - but there are some platforms - like the C7 Z06 for example - where the intake has a pretty big affect (~40 whp) due to the massive restriction on the car.

From my research and those of my friends who own them - and the Shop I speak with - Porsches don't pick up too much from exhaust/headers without the tune (and most tune with it anyway).

I just got an Acura NSX to toy with. Now that car has DP issues with 600 cell count restrictors. I changed those to 100 cell and sound is amazing. But the gains are limited; the actual exhaust in sport + and track mode is thru and thru so a change there would be mostly weight.

Porsche headers just dont do it... bigger turbos/intercoolers are probably what I would do after a tune and exhaust.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Yes. This is also the information I have regarding the Porsche 911 Turbo platform. Bolts on have a very minor affect - it's mostly the tune that produces the gains. This isn't unusual of course - but there are some platforms - like the C7 Z06 for example - where the intake has a pretty big affect (~40 whp) due to the massive restriction on the car.

From my research and those of my friends who own them - and the Shop I speak with - Porsches don't pick up too much from exhaust/headers without the tune (and most tune with it anyway).

Here's a December pass at the same sea level track with a Stage 2 tune and cat deletes....not quite as quick or fast as the one you posted but this one does not have the upgraded IC's so it's reasonable. DA had to be good.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Here's a December pass at the same sea level track with a Stage 2 tune and cat deletes....not quite as quick or fast as the one you posted but this one does not have the upgraded IC's so it's reasonable. DA had to be good.

This is consistent with my research. I have known Brooks since his GTR days - not "personally" but following him on the forums and now his channels. I find him a pretty good - best case - scenario because of the DA and track conditions of his neck of the woods.

In my opinion - tune is critical. You will have a challenging time getting these ET's and MPH without it.

[vtknight]

I'm not trying to turn this into a Porsche page...but this was pretty awesome. Turn on closed captioning.

[Simon H]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I'm not trying to turn this into a Porsche page...but this was pretty awesome. Turn on closed captioning.

It really is quite unbelievable what the Turbo S can do, and going about its business very quietly, not like other big shouty cars. The M5 cannot compete with this in standard spec ?. But the M5 is not too far behind, but offers far greater use and quality imho ?.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I'm not trying to turn this into a Porsche page...but this was pretty awesome. Turn on closed captioning.

Please keep it coming. This is. Porsche 911 vs M5 thread. All is welcome. IMHO, the 911 would be perfect if it had the F90 engine. The Flat6 , while iconic, does not bring stock or modded power like a twin turbo V8. 911 is rated at 580 and rw dyno’s around 520ish. F90 is rated at 600 and rw at 600ish. Huge difference. But 911 is 700 lbs lighter. That’s why this discussion even exists. Weight vs HP delta brings the two cars into the same zip code. If BMW put the F90 engine in a 3500lb M............

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I'm not trying to turn this into a Porsche page...but this was pretty awesome. Turn on closed captioning.

That lambs sound sick!!!!
Nothin sounds better IMO
That porsche is just great car
I wish I can have one

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by Simon H

It really is quite unbelievable what the Turbo S can do, and going about its business very quietly, not like other big shouty cars. The M5 cannot compete with this in standard spec ?. But the M5 is not too far behind, but offers far greater use and quality imho ?.

I was exactly one (1) tenth and one (1) MPH behind the 991.2 Turbo with my M5 Comp. That said, the Turbo S is not within a stock M5's range, no. It's an amazing car.

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Please keep it coming. This is. Porsche 911 vs M5 thread. All is welcome. IMHO, the 911 would be perfect if it had the F90 engine. The Flat6 , while iconic, does not bring stock or modded power like a twin turbo V8. 911 is rated at 580 and rw dyno’s around 520ish. F90 is rated at 600 and rw at 600ish. Huge difference. But 911 is 700 lbs lighter. That’s why this discussion even exists. Weight vs HP delta brings the two cars into the same zip code. If BMW put the F90 engine in a 3500lb M............

Agreed lol.

Originally Posted by Miko M

That lambs sound sick!!!!
Nothin sounds better IMO
That porsche is just great car
I wish I can have one

The Aventador has been that car that is more about appearance versus performance. It is still a VERY quick car for stock. But the Performante has quickly caught up to it (pun intended). I don't think they are putting raw straight line performance as a prime mover for the car.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by vtknight

I was exactly one (1) tenth and one (1) MPH behind the 991.2 Turbo with my M5 Comp. That said, the Turbo S is not within a stock M5's range, no. It's an amazing car.



Agreed lol.



The Aventador has been that car that is more about appearance versus performance. It is still a VERY quick car for stock. But the Performante has quickly caught up to it (pun intended). I don't think they are putting raw straight line performance as a prime mover for the car.

I'd decided I'll have a slow TTS for a while. I'll put on my Kline and a drop in filter, But after a few emails with Cobb I'm waiting on them to crack the loader. Eventually they will. If your ECM is lost or damaged by UPS (rare, but happens) you are screwed. Only Porsche can program a blank back to your car specs. Blank ECM's are only $1,200 but Cobb can not use them to clone yours to it....only Porsche. I don't want to have that conversation.....If I lived near Cobb, it's a no brainer. The tune is impressive.

[vtknight]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

I'd decided I'll have a slow TTS for a while. I'll put on my Kline and a drop in filter, But after a few emails with Cobb I'm waiting on them to crack the loader. Eventually they will. If your ECM is lost or damaged by UPS (rare, but happens) you are screwed. Only Porsche can program a blank back to your car specs. Blank ECM's are only $1,200 but Cobb can not use them to clone yours to it....only Porsche. I don't want to have that conversation.....If I lived near Cobb, it's a no brainer. The tune is impressive.

Again...exactly what my research showed and the path I will take.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by vtknight

Again...exactly what my research showed and the path I will take.

Wise , And trust me it is far from slow even with just an exhaust . The real fun is how it corners and puts the power down in spirited driving , a 4300 pound sedan just can't compete with that .
G