BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General BMW News and Cars Discussion    Pure Electric M Cars are Eventuality Says BMW M CEO, But Hybridization Comes First

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-15-2017, 09:25 AM   #89
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
2031
Rep
8,339
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

This^ plus the cost for all that infrastructure. Add that on top of the cost of the cars. Either the company pays for it and the car price goes up or theres a fee to offset the cost of getting the equipment, the electricity, the rent for the land, etc and don't forget the government will tax it just like they do gasoline.
Appreciate 1
jpnh1423.50
      01-15-2017, 02:19 PM   #90
F82FTW
First Lieutenant
75
Rep
382
Posts

Drives: 17' M3 ZCP, 88' M5 Blk/Blk US
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Sad day - sound of the car is one of the main features for performance cars.

I guess we will have fake exhausts with exterior speakers in 10-20years.
Have you ever heard(in person) a La Ferrari, P1, 918, or by chance the new Panamera Turbo S? These 'hybrid' hyper-powertrains are lightyears better/cooler/stronger/more visceral than anything done in the ancient internal-combustion days.

Call me crazy...whatever. I've had and will always have dope petrol burning machines, but the future is bright as @#$% with these hybrid sports/super/hyper cars coming to light. The day that an M3 has infinitely variable AWD and an electric motor to turn the front wheels and torque-fill, and, by the way, do 0-60 in under 3 seconds easily, will be a very very happy day indeed.
__________________
F80 M3 ZCP - Current...E28 M5 1/30 Blk/Blk US Spec - Current...17' 911 - SOLD...E90 M3 - Sold...F82 M4 - SOLD...F02 750Li - SOLD...Austin MINI - SOLD...E82 135is - SOLD...E89 Z4 - SOLD...F10 535i - SOLD...E30 325is - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 03:48 PM   #91
R N M
Colonel
R N M's Avatar
3620
Rep
2,048
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by F82FTW View Post
Have you ever heard(in person) a La Ferrari, P1, 918, or by chance the new Panamera Turbo S? These 'hybrid' hyper-powertrains are lightyears better/cooler/stronger/more visceral than anything done in the ancient internal-combustion days.

Call me crazy...whatever. I've had and will always have dope petrol burning machines, but the future is bright as @#$% with these hybrid sports/super/hyper cars coming to light. The day that an M3 has infinitely variable AWD and an electric motor to turn the front wheels and torque-fill, and, by the way, do 0-60 in under 3 seconds easily, will be a very very happy day indeed.
These cars cost over $1MM and they all have a V8 or a V12 in Ferrari.

Im referring to full EV like the Bolt or Tesla. Thats what BMW plans to do for ///M cars in future.

I could care less about AWD or 0-60 in less than 3sec.
There will always be faster cars, its not the speed of the car but the way a car makes you feel driving it.
The great BMW M cars were never the fastest, that was always AMG, but they were always the more fun to drive.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 03:55 PM   #92
R N M
Colonel
R N M's Avatar
3620
Rep
2,048
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post

When there are a lot of electric cars charging stations will require a lot of space. It takes about 5 minutes to pump gasoline. Assuming a 30 minute charging time 6 times as many parking spots are required. That costs. There will be government fees and taxes to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. If you ask me, it's a bleak future for driving.
Most people dont want to hear this lol.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 04:09 PM   #93
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
2031
Rep
8,339
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
These cars cost over $1MM and they all have a V8 or a V12 in Ferrari.

Im referring to full EV like the Bolt or Tesla. Thats what BMW plans to do for ///M cars in future.

I could care less about AWD or 0-60 in less than 3sec.
There will always be faster cars, its not the speed of the car but the way a car makes you feel driving it.
The great BMW M cars were never the fastest, that was always AMG, but they were always the more fun to drive.
This would be a sad worst case scenario. Idk if I'd even get the ic version if offered just because its so closely related to the ev one.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 07:01 PM   #94
Imola.ZHP
Colonel
Imola.ZHP's Avatar
United_States
129
Rep
2,218
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW i3 BEV EE
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mud Island, TN

iTrader: (0)

Great! I love my i3, we just bought a second one. Never going back to gasoline!

----

Some of these responses are hilarious. As if gas stations were all built in a single day, did not cost anything to build, opened all on the same day, and don't take up any space.
__________________

- 2014 CPO i01 BEV Electronaut Edition Capparis White Tera World, '17-
- 2015 CPO i01 BEV Laurel Grey Tera World, '17-
- 2015 i01 REx Laurel Grey Tera World, '15-'17
- 2003 CPO 330i ZHP Imola Red Build 03/03/03, '06-'15
Appreciate 1
      01-15-2017, 07:26 PM   #95
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
2031
Rep
8,339
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Um the gas station comment is murky at best. What do you mean? I mean the infrastructure for supercharge stations doesn't exist and will cost a ton. Gas station infrastructure does exist and is paid for.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 07:27 PM   #96
AndreyATC
Banned
AndreyATC's Avatar
United_States
99
Rep
1,828
Posts

Drives: 2016 Tesla Model X P90DL
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Near NYC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 07:30 PM   #97
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
2031
Rep
8,339
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
And...
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 07:36 PM   #98
AndreyATC
Banned
AndreyATC's Avatar
United_States
99
Rep
1,828
Posts

Drives: 2016 Tesla Model X P90DL
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Near NYC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
And...
I didn't want to state the obvious, but you'll save time and money if you travel a lot
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 08:49 PM   #99
Diver
Brigadier General
Diver's Avatar
United_States
504
Rep
3,446
Posts

Drives: Black '12 135i - Sold
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Um the gas station comment is murky at best. What do you mean? I mean the infrastructure for supercharge stations doesn't exist and will cost a ton. Gas station infrastructure does exist and is paid for.
Exactly. Where is all that electricity going to come from?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2017, 11:29 PM   #100
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
The bigger question is infrastructure? Will there be a charging station at every corner like gas stations? What is the plan to deal with the increased number of electric cars. You'll have just about every car brand selling electric cars soon. Interesting times.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 04:33 AM   #101
jippii ensio
Major
68
Rep
1,432
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

iTrader: (0)

The problem with gas is that you need to drive for a gas station and in addition, spend the time to fill it up. In the future electric cars can be charged by wireless induction and you won't need to bother about it. My parking lot will charge my car overnight without myself doing anything. The ranges will be very long by the time you can buy your first fully electric M-car and some of the roads will be able to fill up the charge.

I just saw a test mule of the fully electric Porsche Mission E that will be launched in a couple of years. Already now, it can be charged to 80% in only 15 minutes and I can see the electric charging stations popping up for those who drive long distances.

In the mean time the next M3 will have the electric turbocharger which will elevate the M-performance a lot. The performance segment will love it.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 08:29 AM   #102
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
2031
Rep
8,339
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
I didn't want to state the obvious, but you'll save time and money if you travel a lot
How??? I travel 50k a year. But the limuted range and long charge time means i couldn't use an ev if I wanted to. I'd drive to my destination and would be stuck overnight instead of being able to drive home. EVs atm are only suited for driving around town at the moment from a practicality stand point.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 08:31 AM   #103
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
2031
Rep
8,339
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
The problem with gas is that you need to drive for a gas station and in addition, spend the time to fill it up. In the future electric cars can be charged by wireless induction and you won't need to bother about it. My parking lot will charge my car overnight without myself doing anything. The ranges will be very long by the time you can buy your first fully electric M-car and some of the roads will be able to fill up the charge.

I just saw a test mule of the fully electric Porsche Mission E that will be launched in a couple of years. Already now, it can be charged to 80% in only 15 minutes and I can see the electric charging stations popping up for those who drive long distances.

In the mean time the next M3 will have the electric turbocharger which will elevate the M-performance a lot. The performance segment will love it.
They said flying cars would be here 50 yrs ago also. I've even seen several companies set to go into production with them. And that was 10 and 20 yrs ago. I'm not bashing them. I'm just amazed everyone is so sure that this tech, unlike the last 5 that said exactly the same thing, and that needs technological advances that nobody knows if they are possible for a decade or more to even be practical, and unlike the previous 5 also requires new infrastructure to work, is such a certainty. Once they build charge stations everywhere, it charges in 3 min, the motors don't overheat after a few pulls, the range is 400+ miles, it performs as well or better than a current IC, costs similar, is as reliable, has an equivalent lifespan, and doesn't create massive mining and toxic waste to create, let me know.

Last edited by Fundguy1; 01-16-2017 at 08:40 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 10:05 AM   #104
vinny84
Captain
vinny84's Avatar
United_States
292
Rep
742
Posts

Drives: 2005 BMW X5
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PA

iTrader: (1)

Keep your cars now everyone! True sports cars will be worth some money in the long run
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 12:25 PM   #105
Madrileno
Enlisted Member
188
Rep
37
Posts

Drives: 2017 M4 ZCP Velvelt Blue
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Madrid

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agni View Post
How so? It only takes minutes for a full charge with Tesla's supercharger. Many people have done coast to coast trips. I think 400mi+ range cars are gonna the be the norm in 10yrs at the premium end.

I would think BMW and/or 3rd parties will have something similar in the future.
In Germany though Teslas suck. I have never been overtaken by one, they stay in the rightmost lane behind the trucks at 120kph. Because beyond that the battery drowns in an instant and they won't make it to the next supercharger. Where my M4 gives me a range of roughly 400km even when I press it. On a 400km (240 miles) drive you can safe two hour compared to a Tesla. I know that because I have done 450km to Berlin in about 2h30m including a stop at a petrol station

But I must admit that this is a very limited point of view. Also a 430d will beat the M4 in that challenge because it won't need to fill up and will do 200 just as well.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 12:42 PM   #106
jpnh
Brigadier General
jpnh's Avatar
1424
Rep
3,395
Posts

Drives: NA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
This^ plus the cost for all that infrastructure. Add that on top of the cost of the cars. Either the company pays for it and the car price goes up or theres a fee to offset the cost of getting the equipment, the electricity, the rent for the land, etc and don't forget the government will tax it just like they do gasoline.
Worse than that, they now want to tax vehicles per mile driven instead of taxing the fuel at the appropriate rate
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 12:46 PM   #107
Wolf 335
Brigadier General
Wolf 335's Avatar
Canada
2339
Rep
3,538
Posts

Drives: 2007 E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: GTA - Greater Toronto Area

iTrader: (0)

I think it is important to note that when the whole gas engine concept came into place people were saying the same thing we are saying now about electrics.

"Where are we gonna store the gasoline, stations, where are we gonna park all the cars" and so on and so on. Some I am sure were saying "I'm just gonna keep my horse rather than get the car"

Guys it's evolvement and it needs to happen and it will happen. Charging times will be quick and charging network will be established to suit everyone. Are we not seeing what we are capable of as human beings.

I will leave this quote here for you guys:

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said ‘faster horses.’" ~Henry Ford
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 12:49 PM   #108
Sam_M
Tea wot?
United Kingdom
210
Rep
271
Posts

Drives: 2011 N55 135i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Of course this is where cars will end up. Fossil fuels will be taxed or legislated out of the hands of the common man leaving us with nought but electric to get our fill.

Hell with ASD, would your average muppet realise they were driving an all electric car if the sound of an inline six was being piped into the cabin? Probably not!
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 12:49 PM   #109
jpnh
Brigadier General
jpnh's Avatar
1424
Rep
3,395
Posts

Drives: NA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I could see where performance could be gained from a vehicle that relies primarily on electric motors for propulsion and a conventional fuel engine to provide all/part of the electricity.....this is essentially the same model used by diesel electric locomotives......massive power capabilities are possible and its not exactly immature/untested technology

Cost is pretty high and weight of batteries if that functionality is to be added is not insignificant

Personally I prefer the simplicity of existing internal combustion engines/vehicles
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2017, 12:52 PM   #110
Sam_M
Tea wot?
United Kingdom
210
Rep
271
Posts

Drives: 2011 N55 135i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
I could see where performance could be gained from a vehicle that relies primarily on electric motors for propulsion and a conventional fuel engine to provide all/part of the electricity.....this is essentially the same model used by diesel electric locomotives......massive power capabilities are possible and its not exactly immature/untested technology

Cost is pretty high and weight of batteries if that functionality is to be added is not insignificant

Personally I prefer the simplicity of existing internal combustion engines/vehicles
Electric motors are even simpler than combustion engines, less moving parts. Not to mention instant torque. Just a flat solid torque curve that a big block V8 would be envious of.

The big sticking point is as you already point out battery density, and of course charge speed.

Until you can fit 500 miles worth of batteries into the space a fuel tank takes up, and charge that battery in less than 5 minutes the uptake simply won't be there.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 AM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST