08-28-2014, 10:11 AM | #1 |
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Stock Brakes Severe Let Down...
I was stoked for these brakes after all the raving reviews and all of these press track days that seemed, or were advertised, to have gone off without a hitch.
However, fast forward to the real world, and after ONE track day, all four rotors are completely warped and useless...and pads are destroyed. Now, I kind of expected the pads to be gone, let's be real. BUT, rotors to be destroyed after 6 20 minute sessions?? On an $80k ///M car? Really? My 135is with BMW Perf front rotors and little else never had one rotor issue after 5-6 track days of hard driving. I understand track driving is going to net increased wear on your car, but I would have expected a LOT more out of these stock components. Seems BMW engineered these steel brakes to be exponentially inferior to the massively expensive CCB's...
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08-28-2014, 11:04 AM | #2 | |
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Stock pads on the iron rotors will not handle the heat at the track and will smear uneven deposits on the rotors. Install new pads and the shudder will likely go away after 2-3 weeks of street driving. It has been discussed in various threads, track pads will likely be needed with the iron rotors for any serious tracking. |
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08-28-2014, 11:17 AM | #3 |
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Here's a good article backing up what CanAutM3 said:
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths
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08-28-2014, 12:49 PM | #4 | |
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The brakes are just the tip of the iceberg too; I could go into a whole thread about the let downs this car has provided from one track day...but quite simply, I do not have the time. Massive disapointment in many ways. At least it's a really fast street car which at least looks like it could handle a racetrack...
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08-28-2014, 01:14 PM | #5 | ||
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08-28-2014, 01:35 PM | #7 |
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I doubt any iron disc will become unusable after such short period of time, although anything is possible, I would imagine after you replace your pads, some clean up driving hopefully will be sufficient. Best of luck.
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08-28-2014, 01:45 PM | #8 |
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Aren't the rotors 2 piece floating? Seems really curious that all 4 would warp in 1 track day, especially considering how little the rear brakes contribute. Sounds more like pad material deposits.
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08-28-2014, 02:00 PM | #9 |
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It has nothing to do with your rotors as others have pointed out. You used street pads at the track and exceeded their MOT resulting in severe pad material deposition on the rotors (creating the "warped" rotor measurements). This will happen on just about any street car with street pads. If you have put some PFC08 or PFC11 pads on prior to the track session, you could have partied all day without issues.
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08-28-2014, 02:06 PM | #10 | |
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Nonetheless, I'm concerned with the unavailability of any track pads at this point and also completely unsure as to the proper process for mitigating this 'deposit' problem, assuming that is indeed the issue.
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08-28-2014, 02:11 PM | #11 | |
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To avoid warping you need to bed-in the brakes, check stoptech site for simple procedure. |
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08-28-2014, 07:10 PM | #12 |
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What a great thread with various knowledgeable folks calmly repeating sound advice.
I was fairly concerned coming into this thread. Now I feel warm and fuzzy again
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08-29-2014, 08:04 AM | #13 |
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smh
Although I am fairly certain this will be a good track car, it's not suppose to be a track car out of the box. It isn't a GT3. It does many things a true track car can't do. As for your brakes, I'm sure they are fine like all the others have stated. I have friends running in the A groups using stock E90 M3 brakes for years with just track pads that don't have warped rotors. After your track session did you keep your brake pedal depressed for an extended period of time and/or use your e-brake?
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08-29-2014, 08:43 AM | #14 |
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08-29-2014, 08:56 AM | #15 |
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Yeah I know and thought about that as I typed but I still don't use mine as just a good practice.
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08-29-2014, 09:28 AM | #16 | |
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I'm headed to the track this weekend with my new M4. I don't plan on pushing it real hard maybe run 7/10 on just 2-3 20 minute sessions. It will be a second car for me, but I'll report back if I have any problems with light track use. Stock steels and pads too for me.
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08-29-2014, 09:28 AM | #17 |
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OP, are you doing a cool down lap before coming into the pits? That will help. Also, what kind of brake fluid are you running? Agree with the others that a good set of high temp brake pads will help too.
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08-29-2014, 09:31 AM | #18 | |
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If you're coming in from a track session ESPECIALLY with stock pads which are already susceptible to lining transfer, DO NOT leave your foot on the brake pedal with the car stopped, even for a second. You'll leave a big imprint of pad material on the disc which will result in vibration your next time out. The comment about the e-brake was simply to suggest using the e-brake (lightly) to hold the car rather than sitting in the pits with your foot on the pedal. Alternatively, wheel chocks in the pits are a good idea. |
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08-29-2014, 09:38 AM | #19 | |
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Despite the all the track-based marketing we see, most cars are not perfectly-suited to racetrack use straight from the showroom floor. This is especially true of brakes, where manufacturers will ALWAYS prioritize [low] noise/dust/wear over outright track performance. If you read the M3 manual, the ONLY thing specifically mentioned in the track use section is that the brake pads aren't suitable for tracks. Should any of us be surprised when the stock pads don't work particularly well in this environment? The Porsche GT3 RS may be the one exception, where the stock car is running a variation of Pagid RS19 from the factory. It's been mentioned several times, but anyone taking the car to the track should seriously consider the BMW Performance pad kit, or one of the offerings from Pagid (RS19/RS29). |
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08-29-2014, 10:27 AM | #20 |
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Yeah, just going to go with this, with a caveat is not that your dealer is retarded, but they are unused to dealing with something outside the boundaries of normal. Hot pad deposit on rotors is outside the bounds of normal for everyday driving. Very few people actually track their cars, and the ones that do, usually know enough to use seperate track pads.
Anyways, as others have said, get a new set of pads on there, perhaps driving for a week or two with track pads on to remove the deposits, and then back to regular street pads. Final comment: a set of chocks at the track is always good to have, for multiple reasons, including this one. Final final comment: if you did, indeed, warp all four rotors from one track day (which I highly doubt), your experience is far outside the experience of others who have tracked their M4. If true, you might want to consider your braking habits as a possible culprit (not meant as an insult, just a suggestion) Last edited by Mandi90TT; 08-29-2014 at 10:28 AM.. Reason: One more comment I forgot |
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08-29-2014, 10:59 AM | #21 | |
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I recently had PFC race tech help me with a brake issue on my spec racecar. Here's the back and forth, pertinent info underlined. Your rotors can take the heat, the pads however couldn't. Race pads on even the stock steel rotors should put your face thru the windshield. I use PFC, sometimes Pagid. Also keep in mind if your using DSC, it's modulating your brakes and putting heat into them you may not even be feeling.
I instructed at COTA for a Ferrari event last year, the pits had a line of F cars getting their rear brakes worked on. Some drivers were using traction/stability control as a total crutch, pads were melting, fluid was cooked, smoke coming from their CCBs, horrible driving. These were 458s and piggy Californias, the older cars no problem. Quote:
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08-29-2014, 11:39 AM | #22 |
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Excellent point about people using DSC/MDM mode on the track as it makes serious use of rear brakes, individually (fronts also), and puts a huge additional load into the braking system. If you're driving at a serious and competent level, you should not need a nanny since all the nanny does is help an inexperienced driver create bad habits in addition to unneeded brake loads.
Note the #4 above. I've been using Ti shims for 10 years, and they are essential to preserving your piston dust covers and seals -- especially when the pads are worn down below 1/2 thickness, etc. The pad material is an outstanding insulator, so when its thickness is reduced as they wear, backing plate temperatures (and therefore heat transfer into the pistons) goes up proportionally. With three simple things, I'm sure the F8x brakes will work wonderfully and provide good service life: 1) PFC/Pagid/etc race pads 2) Motul 600 or equivalent high temp DOT4 fluid 3) Ti shims I guess the 4th item is to not drive the car near its limits for extended sessions if you're having to use stability control; if you are going to do that, I'd recommend using Ti shims in the rear also. Cheers, Chuck
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