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      12-04-2017, 09:36 AM   #67
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shmee finally picked an appropriate outfit for the review.
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      12-04-2017, 10:03 AM   #68
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spoiler: it is, hopefully ZCP brings the M5 into the 10s
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      12-04-2017, 10:06 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
The M5 CP doesn't come to Latin American countries. It is not sold on the African continent and on many Asian countries too. Therefore I am basing it on what I can buy, not on eventually what is better between the two.

The M5 F10 CP I know that it is far better than the M5 F10, but I only had the M5 F10 here because there is no CP cars for sale. Probably BMW M doesn't care about losing sales due to this, as the market is pretty minimal anyway.
The CPs are available in Mexico. As a matter of fact, the F10 has only been available as a CP here since 2014. Same with the M6.

The M3/4 we can get with or without CP.
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      12-04-2017, 10:28 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
I own a M6 Gran Coupe and instead of opting to wait for this new M5 F90, I opted for the W213 E 63 AMG S. It is pretty obvious that as far as performance goes, these two cars are pretty much identical. The difference in acceleration is minimal, and the difference in handling is probably next to zero. I still think the E 63 is probably a slight brush faster than the M5 F90 (considering it was faster in all metric acceleration from 100-200, 100-250, 100-300 comparing to the M5 30Jahre) but the difference is definitely minimal.

The M5 F90 is 20kg lighter (Pano Roof vs Pano Roof) and 30kg lighter (Carbon Roof vs non Pano Roof on the E), but other than that hardware is pretty much the same. Steering Feel, from reviews the E 63 got more praise than the M5 at the launch but it is probably very similar. The 4WD of both have been praised a lot, although it has been said the E 63 has more a RWD car feel on the road than the M5, grip is probably identical too. And although reviews are saying the M5 F90 feels slightly faster on track, it is hard to compare when you are not directly driving both cars, as conditions vary, and they were tested at different tracks. The only thing we can conclude is which will be more visceral and fun to drive. And I am sorry, but the E 63 S probably takes the cake. It has better sound, the engine is more rev-hungry, the transmission is a tad quicker (and since it has shorter ratios, you can explore the revs more often), and the suspension although a little stiffer (this is controversial though, some reviews said it is better, other said it is worse), both probably ride about the same.

The E 63 S is probably the better fun car to buy. The M5 F90 is probably the slightly quicker car on racetrack in England on a cold day (by 0,1s). Basically saying the new M5 F90 although great is a disappointment, because before AMG cars although loud and fun, did not have the poise and accuracy to match an M car. Today though AMG cars are pretty much neck a neck with M cars in terms of driving, and BMW M has not been able to play the AMG Game of being fun when you are not 10/10's.

This is my 2 cents. I feel that when comparos come in, it is going to be pretty much 50-50 both side, because it all depends on what the reviewer cares more. A car that gets the job done with no drama, or one with the drama.

The worst part is BMW M had nearly an year to perfect and finetune the car after the launch of the E 63 S, but apparently that wasn't enough.
Well, it really is to early to tell. But these cars will be judged along other supercars in the near future. The AMG and new E class is a great step forward, but as far as history goes, the M is the drivers car, always was a better and more focused car than the AMG and other competitors.
I do think that it is going to happen again this time around, but the gap might be less with this generation.
The ICE is dying, so what is happening with AMG and M in the coming generations?
The F90 is bringing little excitement, worst part is the uninspiring engine note and the gear shifter, looks like the one in my old E39.
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      12-04-2017, 11:08 AM   #71
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Some youtube reviewer jumping in the front seat for a few hours won't be able to give you anything other than a vague initial impression.

I'll be curious to see what an actual owner has to say about the car in a few months time.
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      12-04-2017, 11:16 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewc89 View Post
Some youtube reviewer jumping in the front seat for a few hours won't be able to give you anything other than a vague initial impression.

I'll be curious to see what an actual owner has to say about the car in a few months time.
So you'd trust the opinion of random average joe owners, over actual automotive journalists who earn their living on understanding how a car drives?

Makes sense.
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      12-04-2017, 11:20 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I think the release of this M5 seals the deal for all real owners of M cars.

M (for Motorsports) is dead, my heart sinks seeing this car being launched.

AMG unfortunately have made advances in the last two generations and the brand seems to have discover its own niche with the cars getting more comfortable "in their own skin". AMG knows it is a comfortable street car with luxurious interior, usable power and a fun car to drive. Our definition of fun is noise, steering feel and an exciting engine matted to a strong drive train. With BMW vacating motorsports (no where to be seen at F1, nor are they making competitive GT3 cars) - BMW M is truly losing its identity in the market place - what does M stand for? Marketing? Mass Production?

I used to make fun of people driving AMG cars back in 2007 - because our E92 was so much more agile, engine was filled with character, 6MT was offered and DCT was aggressive. Now - I think it might be the opposite.

How is this M5 any different from a 550 M-sport sport (as a concept)?
The engine is a modification of the previous 4.4 L engine from F10 M5, the gearbox has "de-proved" by moving away from DCT to Auto, the steering has always been disappointing since the previous F10 M5 (fine.. it is excusable for me as it is a sedan).

M to me always meant more car than the money - it was not about pure profits and mass production efficiency through platform/engine sharing, BMW should (and deserves) to make majority of their profits in regular 3, 5, 7 series. M cars were always meant to be a HALO car, an aspirational brand, starting from the original S14 engine of E30 filled with character, the specially designed 4.0L V8 S65 of the E92, the cartoon like wheel arches of the 1M, car enthusiast always respected the M brand as a car built without compromises and M cars were always comfortable with the shoes it has to fill - now, there's no longer a spirit of owning an M car.

I currently own E30 M3, 1M, E92 M3, F10 M5 - I really hope I will buy another M car one day, but at the direction they are going, I am not so sure it will happen anytime soon.
I could not have said it better myself, bravo on a great post that nails it, especially the "M550iS" comment. That's what this car really is.

The F10 M5/M6 GC will be newest M cars cars I can see myself owning, unless they ever build a M2 GC 6MT (I probably have better odds winning the lotto than this).
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      12-04-2017, 11:21 AM   #74
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The press launches tend to be the worst reviews of the car, wait till each outlet gets a car and can do proper tests and take their time. Gotta imagine ZCP is announced in March and will be going into production for the 2019 model year in June/July of 2018 so most people are waiting on that anyway. Then LCI for 2020 model year.
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      12-04-2017, 11:26 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by swagon View Post


I like this guy he is fare and does really good reviews.
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      12-04-2017, 11:29 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
So you'd trust the opinion of random average joe owners, over actual automotive journalists who earn their living on understanding how a car drives?

Makes sense.
Ever go on rotton tomatoes and see a big difference between the critic score and the audience score? Because i have.

Just because you're a professional critic/reviewer/journalist doesn't mean you will like or dislike the same things as me. Taste is subjective and yes, the opinion of average joe matters as much as the pro's opinion, especially when looking to buy a $100k car.

To clarify: I'm not saying i don't value a journalists review, i'm just saying these initial press release reviews are never informative enough.

Last edited by AndrewC1989; 12-04-2017 at 11:41 AM..
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      12-04-2017, 11:30 AM   #77
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If you don't like it, don't buy it!

Come on, with the drag races: F90 vs RS6 vs RS7, S63 vs Panamera turbo etc.

Also, i would like to see the gap between the P100D and the F90 (tuned).
Hopefully it will do better than the M760Li.
I need a family M cruiser next year and will choose between a M5 F90 or X5M (second hand obviously)
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      12-04-2017, 11:42 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
......, but I hate the laziness they took in designing the side view mirrors.
I too like the look of the F10 M5's mirrors over the new F90 M5! Wonder if anyone will consider a retro-fit!
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      12-04-2017, 11:48 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Shmee review is out
I think he enjoyed it a lot. Last 30 seconds sums it up.

" One car that I would not mind having in my own garage "
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      12-04-2017, 11:55 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somer View Post


spoiler: it is, hopefully ZCP brings the M5 into the 10s

You didn't not mention the data..
Tested via race logic in the 1st min.

0-60 3.1 Seconds
1/4 11.1 Seconds at 127.5mph
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      12-04-2017, 12:10 PM   #81
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I've realised after watching the Carwow review the reason the M5 is not available as a Tourer is because launch control would put the dog through the rear windscreen
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      12-04-2017, 12:11 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by somer View Post


spoiler: it is, hopefully ZCP brings the M5 into the 10s

You didn't not mention the data..
Tested via race logic in the 1st min.

0-60 3.1 Seconds
1/4 11.1 Seconds at 127.5mph
0-100 in 7 secs too. Scary fast...!

Or maybe not best wait for the ZCP in case this is too slow
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      12-04-2017, 12:13 PM   #83
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The digital dash seems really bad. Not even change display as drive mode changes in regular 5,7. Just mimicking analog needle, why bother in the first place to make it digital then?
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      12-04-2017, 12:16 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
The digital dash seems really bad. Not even change display as drive mode changes in regular 5,7. Just mimicking analog needle, why bother in the first place to make it digital then?
Considering how gaudy/ugly the 5/7 digital dashes are in sport mode I welcome the fact they kept it more classic looking. However I agree with your overall point, I wish analog gauges were still here at least for another generation, I really dislike digital gauges in general. At least porsche did them close to right and kept the analog tach.
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      12-04-2017, 12:22 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
The digital dash seems really bad. Not even change display as drive mode changes in regular 5,7. Just mimicking analog needle, why bother in the first place to make it digital then?
Considering how gaudy/ugly the 5/7 digital dashes are in sport mode I welcome the fact they kept it more classic looking. However I agree with your overall point, I wish analog gauges were still here at least for another generation, I really dislike digital gauges in general. At least porsche did them close to right and kept the analog tach.
I love good digital dash such as Audi virtual cockpit, Mercedes E/S, Volvo, Lamborghini Hurancan, Maclaren 720s. Especially tach in the middle and whatever the hell u want at each sides. Bmw is limiting itself by adding stupid metal rings around tach and speedo, why? If they really want digital then go all in, if not then keep it old fashion. This half ass shit is so stupid. Especially the 5 in US market, even have physical speed mark on the outside ring...god awful shit
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      12-04-2017, 01:02 PM   #86
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This generation M5 is probably the least exciting M car debut as far as I can remember.
I don't see a single feature that's fascinating.
Looking forward to the LCI version and the next gen M5.
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      12-04-2017, 01:04 PM   #87
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I'm very disappointed to hear all this negativity about new M5 on this forum, if you want pure
N/A Engine, Manual, lightweight M Car, then buy e92 M3 Competition Pack, there's plenty examples around, M5 is always been understated Super Quick Super Saloon with some extra gadgets. the way I see it, it's as fast, as grippy, as much gadgets as e63 or any other competition and then some, if you don't like Exaust sound, me neither, so buy aftermarket one or even BMW M Performance Exaust, in regards to steering, that's what BMW offers and I don't think anyone has better. Verdict: BMW M always been better, much better than competitors, but now, M got caught. Surely BMW will try to change the game again, and as long as they produce compact manual drivers cars I will always stick with BMW M, if don't agree, stop Moaning, buy something else and be happy.
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      12-04-2017, 01:13 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioM3 View Post
I'm very disappointed to hear all this negativity about new M5 on this forum, if you want pure
N/A Engine, Manual, lightweight M Car, then buy e92 M3 Competition Pack,
You are calling E92 a lightweight car?

I think most disappointment comes from the car not being a great "M5". It is a great car to newcomers and a decent car in the segment for journalists to review, but F90 has nowhere the impact that E39 and E60 had when they launched, especially when you remember that E60 had been compared to F430 in terms of character by JC on Top Gear.

It was sure a surprise to hear that steering feel is numb on the new M5 though. I thought they'd at least get these right having used the same engine and less characterful transmission.
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