[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by BG23

The perfect car for me would be the shape of an RS6, the sound of an E63s and everything else M5. I had an E63s for a weekend before purchasing the M5 - I actually thought the interior and tech was far better in the M5. Apart from having less tech, it's quite laggy in the E63 which is very annoying.

Nahh the perfect car is the B5 Touring

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by BrianShaw23

Yep, just got back from test driving the 2018 AMG E63s and happy I ordered the M5 Comp. The AMG drives awesome and sounds great but definitely wasn't as comfortable as the M5 and honestly the E63s didn't look as good in person as I thought it would. It has a big ugly Mercedes badge on the front grill that doesn't look good in person. Also the interior was nice but didn't look as good in person as in videos or photos. It didn't have the $2800 carbon fiber interior though, so I'm sure that would look better.

Test driving both cars, just think the M5 is the better all-arounder. The only thing the AMG has on the M5 is just engine/exhaust sound and perhaps a little more of a sporty feel to the drive.

I think both are pretty good. I am just amazed at how well BMW has tuned the F90's suspension. It doesn't feel bouncy or sloppy, yet it is very comfortable for a supersaloon.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by dopper99

I own an AMG C63s and its much more comfortable than the M3 Competition Pack I had previously so I'm amazed to read reports (from several sources now) that the E63s is a harder ride than the M5.

Seems like the E63s and M5 are switched around with regards ride comfort compared to the C63s vs M3 CP.

The E63 S rides very firmly, much more so than the M5.

But I don't believe the M3 CP rides more harshly than the C63 S, although I find that for Brazilian Roads the C63 has the best compromise.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by BG23

The perfect car for me would be the shape of an RS6, the sound of an E63s and everything else M5. I had an E63s for a weekend before purchasing the M5 - I actually thought the interior and tech was far better in the M5. Apart from having less tech, it's quite laggy in the E63 which is very annoying.

I do believe Australia has a similar reality in terms of roads to Brazil. If this is the case, than the F90 is the better deal. The E63 S is awesome to drive, but it would be a tiring car to drive for long.

[CarlosM4]

Now that I am an M5 F90 owner, I would like to extend my thoughts on car. Some perceptions have changed with time, some haven't. I still feel the comparison of M5 F90 vs E63 S AMG, is the same as that of 911 Turbo S vs R8 V10 Plus, where they are plenty capable cars, but while one is flawless, the other has more character. I got to drive the E63 S for a couple of days too since then.

The E63 S AMG is still to my eyes the car with more character, the exhaust is nicer, and it does drive more agressively (the transmission and harsh suspension are very important in this regard). Nevertheless the M5 is the better car in pretty much all aspects. The E63 S interior is quite impressive due to the layout, but the surfaces are not as well finished and the car doesn't have the same quality materials. It is also a lot less insulated from the road. In that regards, I think even Audi has Mercedes bested. The 5 Series and A6 both have better finish quality than the E Class.

In terms of performance, I can't fault any of the two, but there is a massive difference in the character of the engines. The M5 you need to rev a little more and let the car start pulling. The E63 S has torque since 0 rpm, it is amazing how torquey it is. I do genuinely believe that the M5 from 4k rpm pulls harder though, the butt dyno suggests it is faster and it feels faster. The gearbox is also more eager. The only time where I feel the response is not as savage is in Sport Plus (most aggressive everything, the gearbox in Drive, it tends to have a slower response, compared to manual mode downshift and flooring). The E63 S seems to be quicker to response in Drive, but the throttle is not as responsive. Hard to say. The steering on the M5 is meatier and transmits less artificial feel (it feels more mechanical), while the E63 S does have more artificial feel. The E63 S also feels nose heavy compared to the M5, the M5 feels eager to rotate.

In terms of room, I would say the are equivalent, but the M5 has the largest trunk.

In terms of tech, I prefer Command animations and diagrams (they are nicer), but IDrive is more intuituve and responsive.

[Vic55]

I agree Carlos with all that you wrote... as I had my E63S for about 8 months I will echo the thoughts:

1. The E63S is more aggressive in its response due to tq delivery but its rough as fuck on the streets and its transmission delivery. The MCT is a thud monster and at times I get that jerky feeling like I did in my SMG 3 cars (BMW and Audi R8 S tronic). The E is just not remotely as comfortable from a tranny feel to suspension.

2. Its shifting manually is not as fluid as the ZF8 with the M. I did a video Saturday with my M where I had to do probably over 30 runs with manual shifts from digs and rolls. I completely forgot this was not a DCT (in regards to response and speed of shifts). Its just so smooth.

3. Tech is much better in the M but the E has the better visuals. Bad sadly the E is so slow its like a Commodore 64 vs latest Intel Processor with the M. Also the ease of making changes in media or nav goes to the M too. The M HUD is better IMHO with a clear cut visual on shifting points when one is ripping it.

4. Steering is where I clearly didnt like the E as much- the artificial controls at higher speeds in turns (over 100) is frankly a bit annoying and it doesnt allow me to drive the car with my skill set. Instead it feels like its overthinking things and that causes me to manually correct and at 100 plus thats not what I want.

5. Exhaust is the better with the E but I did an exhaust mod with my M and its every bit as strong as the E IMHO now. Yes it took a mod but its not expensive and there are other things in the M that the E can NOT overcome from a mod perspective (steering, suspension, tech)

Stock vs stock I feel the E would get out of the gate faster (if layman are lined up at a light) and then the F90 would pull but F90 is the faster car speed and will keep pulling at triple digits. Again, this is for non pre meditated runs but more impromptus.

And as I have always, two great cars that get to the same destination in different manners.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I agree Carlos with all that you wrote... as I had my E63S for about 8 months I will echo the thoughts:

1. The E63S is more aggressive in its response due to tq delivery but its rough as fuck on the streets and its transmission delivery. The MCT is a thud monster and at times I get that jerky feeling like I did in my SMG 3 cars (BMW and Audi R8 S tronic). The E is just not remotely as comfortable from a tranny feel to suspension.

2. Its shifting manually is not as fluid as the ZF8 with the M. I did a video Saturday with my M where I had to do probably over 30 runs with manual shifts from digs and rolls. I completely forgot this was not a DCT (in regards to response and speed of shifts). Its just so smooth.

3. Tech is much better in the M but the E has the better visuals. Bad sadly the E is so slow its like a Commodore 64 vs latest Intel Processor with the M. Also the ease of making changes in media or nav goes to the M too. The M HUD is better IMHO with a clear cut visual on shifting points when one is ripping it.

4. Steering is where I clearly didnt like the E as much- the artificial controls at higher speeds in turns (over 100) is frankly a bit annoying and it doesnt allow me to drive the car with my skill set. Instead it feels like its overthinking things and that causes me to manually correct and at 100 plus thats not what I want.

5. Exhaust is the better with the E but I did an exhaust mod with my M and its every bit as strong as the E IMHO now. Yes it took a mod but its not expensive and there are other things in the M that the E can NOT overcome from a mod perspective (steering, suspension, tech)

Stock vs stock I feel the E would get out of the gate faster (if layman are lined up at a light) and then the F90 would pull but F90 is the faster car speed and will keep pulling at triple digits. Again, this is for non pre meditated runs but more impromptus.

And as I have always, two great cars that get to the same destination in different manners.

I love the M5 F90. It is the better package. The E63 S is pretty nice, but now that I have had more time and experience with both, I completely concur with every single word you said. I love the M5, it is just so brilliant. Everyday I get the urge to drive it. I have another car to daily (which is a small ecobox because in Brazil that is how you should do it LOL), but I still use the M5 as a daily practically everyday. Just love driving it.

I agree the thing that makes the E63 S feel racier and more on edge, are the same things that hinder its ability, and make it worse than the M5, such as the extra harsh suspension (vs the compliant BM), the harsh gear changes, and the extra loud exhaust. The only thing I wish the BMW had was the ability to have an exhaust that was louder. To my eyes, the M5 still feels a little boring in comparison to the E63 S, but because it is so perfect. It is faultless. I would also like the throttle response from the Merc when rolling in slow speeds and performing a kick down (in Drive the car seems to hesitate, but if I downshift to 1st manually, the thing just flies, and throttle application is responded immediately).

I am seriously considering modding the exhaust, but I have not had the guts to do it so far. Probably will in the future.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I love the M5 F90. It is the better package. The E63 S is pretty nice, but now that I have had more time and experience with both, I completely concur with every single word you said. I love the M5, it is just so brilliant. Everyday I get the urge to drive it. I have another car to daily (which is a small ecobox because in Brazil that is how you should do it LOL), but I still use the M5 as a daily practically everyday. Just love driving it.

I agree the thing that makes the E63 S feel racier and more on edge, are the same things that hinder its ability, and make it worse than the M5, such as the extra harsh suspension (vs the compliant BM), the harsh gear changes, and the extra loud exhaust. The only thing I wish the BMW had was the ability to have an exhaust that was louder. To my eyes, the M5 still feels a little boring in comparison to the E63 S, but because it is so perfect. It is faultless. I would also like the throttle response from the Merc when rolling in slow speeds and performing a kick down (in Drive the car seems to hesitate, but if I downshift to 1st manually, the thing just flies, and throttle application is responded immediately).

I am seriously considering modding the exhaust, but I have not had the guts to do it so far. Probably will in the future.

I dont ever say one must 100% do something except to my employees LOL but with the F90 please do the exhaust mod.

[Quickburn7]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I dont ever say one must 100% do something except to my employees LOL but with the F90 please do the exhaust mod.

I agree with Vic, do the exhaust mod it's a must on this car.
I still prefer the more aggressive look of the E63 compared to the subdued look of the M5 but everything else now goes to the M5. Even dealer service and repairs have been way better with the BMW than the Merc.
Plus the BMW is much cheaper to lease than the Mercedes.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I dont ever say one must 100% do something except to my employees LOL but with the F90 please do the exhaust mod.

Originally Posted by Quickburn7

I agree with Vic, do the exhaust mod it's a must on this car.
I still prefer the more aggressive look of the E63 compared to the subdued look of the M5 but everything else now goes to the M5. Even dealer service and repairs have been way better with the BMW than the Merc.
Plus the BMW is much cheaper to lease than the Mercedes.

Will do. You guys given me courage. I am torn between:
Remus exhaust with resonated mid pipes

Eisenmann with carbon tips and resonated mid pipes

Or just waiting for RPI, since they had the nicest exhaust sound for the F10 M5. Akrapovic we have a dealer here in Brazil, might go there to check the product out for the F90. I know they did 2 M5's so far.

I just want it to sound that extra bit better without drone.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Will do. You guys given me courage. I am torn between:
Remus exhaust with resonated mid pipes

Eisenmann with carbon tips and resonated mid pipes

Or just waiting for RPI, since they had the nicest exhaust sound for the F10 M5. Akrapovic we have a dealer here in Brazil, might go there to check the product out for the F90. I know they did 2 M5's so far.

I just want it to sound that extra bit better without drone.

If drone is a MAJOR concern, I would keep the factory mid and add an axle back of your choice.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

If drone is a MAJOR concern, I would keep the factory mid and add an axle back of your choice.

Any suggestion of axle between Eisenmann and Remus?

I can't have drone, because I use this car for travels with wife and son. Although my son is 20 years old, my wife is 56 and she hates any sort of drone.

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Any suggestion of axle between Eisenmann and Remus?

I can't have drone, because I use this car for travels with wife and son. Although my son is 20 years old, my wife is 56 and she hates any sort of drone.

That question gets highly speculative. Do you currently have the MSPORT exhaust ? It is a nice upgrade over the base M5 and has zero drone. Beyond that, compare the muffler design of the aftermarket competitors that you like. Make sure you have the valve option. Also compare the exhaust paths with the valve closed in “quiet mode”. If that path passes through a “pipe like” path instead of a “muffler like” path, it will be louder even with the valves closed.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

That question gets highly speculative. Do you currently have the MSPORT exhaust ? It is a nice upgrade over the base M5 and has zero drone. Beyond that, compare the muffler design of the aftermarket competitors that you like. Make sure you have the valve option. Also compare the exhaust paths with the valve closed in “quiet mode”. If that path passes through a “pipe like” path instead of a “muffler like” path, it will be louder even with the valves closed.

Yep I have the MSport exhaust. It is standard here. But I still find it very muted. I can barely hear it from the cabin. It is in the build S1MAA M sports exhaust system

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yep I have the MSport exhaust. It is standard here. But I still find it very muted. I can barely hear it from the cabin. It is in the build S1MAA M sports exhaust system

You are the perfect candidate for an axle back , since you already have the upgraded mid pipe.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

You are the perfect candidate for an axle back , since you already have the upgraded mid pipe.

Got it. I have never seen an Eisenmann or Remus exhaust in person. Which one tends to have the better finish. I quite like the M Sport Exhaust finish quality, and I want something similar to it.

[onfireX5]

I’ve only had Eisenmann, Akra and MSPORT in my hands. Akra is on it’s own planet ��. Eisenmann quality is slightly better than MSPORT.

[onfireX5]

Biggest caveat is the cabin sound insulation. To get the same sound inside the F90 cabin that my X5M has with Akra, would take a cop bait exhaust in my F90. Not doing that.

[Vic55]

Carlos I have the full catback Remus (non resonated) and its amazing... I mean this car is that much better to me with this exhaust. Its got a great amazing tone down low and then as the rpm's increase it changes to a more exotic pitch. Its got just enough barks at high speed pulls but the coast downs are brilliant. The deal with this exhaust is a fair price for favorable results soundwise.

This is a very poor I Phone video the minute after it was installed but I have the real video coming:

I take a certain street when I leave my office (if I work LOL) and after I installed it one of my co workers with his office window against that street heard it and texted "damn that thing is way louder than your E63S and almost as loud as your R8 (which also has Remus)"

I have had Eisenmann on my 2013 M5 and Miestershaft on my 2013 M6 and Akra on my 2016 M5... Im telling you I wont go back to any of them based on what sounds Ive got with this piece. Yes I got a sponsor deal but honestly the piece is so "bang for the buck" I was going to get it anyways because of how great it sounds on the R8 and yes I know two different cars but I find the quality of welds fit and finish just fine. Its not Ti built so the price is down but the sound is killer.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Carlos I have the full catback Remus (non resonated) and its amazing... I mean this car is that much better to me with this exhaust. Its got a great amazing tone down low and then as the rpm's increase it changes to a more exotic pitch. Its got just enough barks at high speed pulls but the coast downs are brilliant. The deal with this exhaust is a fair price for favorable results soundwise.

This is a very poor I Phone video the minute after it was installed but I have the real video coming:

I take a certain street when I leave my office (if I work LOL) and after I installed it one of my co workers with his office window against that street heard it and texted "damn that thing is way louder than your E63S and almost as loud as your R8 (which also has Remus)"

I have had Eisenmann on my 2013 M5 and Miestershaft on my 2013 M6 and Akra on my 2016 M5... Im telling you I wont go back to any of them based on what sounds Ive got with this piece. Yes I got a sponsor deal but honestly the piece is so "bang for the buck" I was going to get it anyways because of how great it sounds on the R8 and yes I know two different cars but I find the quality of welds fit and finish just fine. Its not Ti built so the price is down but the sound is killer.

Yours sounds fantastic. Possibly the best M5 F90 sound. My only restrain with going full Remus catbacks is the drone. If there is the option to maintain my M Sport mid pipes as onfireX5 suggested, I will possibly take my chances. If the fit and finish is on pair with the standard piece of kit, I will be more than pleased.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Biggest caveat is the cabin sound insulation. To get the same sound inside the F90 cabin that my X5M has with Akra, would take a cop bait exhaust in my F90. Not doing that.

Thanks god, here this problem is subdued. But I concur, the cabin insulation is too damn effective. From the outside even with the standard M Sport, the noise is not bad, it is actually pretty good. From the inside though, I can't hear shit. It has less exhaust noise than my foregone F06 M6, which contrary to the M5, had low amplitude noise, and much less insulation.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yours sounds fantastic. Possibly the best M5 F90 sound. My only restrain with going full Remus catbacks is the drone. If there is the option to maintain my M Sport mid pipes as onfireX5 suggested, I will possibly take my chances. If the fit and finish is on pair with the standard piece of kit, I will be more than pleased.

Honestly drone is the most subjective word in the exhaust world. What one thinks is drone, another thinks its exhaust noise. I dont have drone in this car- its far too insulated to hear anything like that and if I do hear noise, its wanted. But again drone is a subjective word.