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07-04-2008, 07:44 PM | #23 | |
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Now my curiosity is peaked though, anyone know if there is a C63 in the Atlanta area (there wasn't four months ago and I still can't find one)? In the interest of science, I'd like to see if it's subjective if you've actually been inside them both or only subjective over the Internet. The closest one I can find is in Birmingham and I like science but not that much. |
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07-04-2008, 10:49 PM | #24 | |
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The interior shots of the C63 that I have seen online are NOT an accurate representation of the interior in real life. The seats are incredible in terms of feel (unless you're huge, then they're snug), the AMG nappa leather is phenomenal, and the black birdseye maple trim is elegant yet sporty (hope that doesn't sound too commercial-ish), and the steering wheel is great. Also, the pop-up nav screen looks a whole hell of a lot better in person and I would take the COMAND system over iDrive any day. All that being said, I still love the M3 interior as well. I appreciate both cars equally for what they bring to the table. |
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07-04-2008, 11:04 PM | #25 |
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The M3 interior gets a passing grade for me, nothing more. Kind of bland and not particularly inspiring--as if the designers did not want to commit to anything.
I can't say I like the C63 interior more based on what I've seen in the pics. The instrument panel is a bit of a turn off for me there. I don't understand why the M3 can't have a big fat tachometer at the center of the panel either. I know it's not a Ferrari, seats 4, is a street car, and all that jazz, but if you're going to stick in a V8 that revs up to 8400 rpms that you keep on saying is "race-inspired", why not put the tachometer at the center and make it big. How can that hurt but give the interface/car more character? The GTR has it. Is it more of a race car than the M3? I don't think so.
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07-05-2008, 12:04 AM | #26 |
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I can't decide between these two and cannot find a decently priced 997 GT3.
I've been thinking since both of their release and now i'm also looking at Z06's and Evo MR because it's giving me a headache. |
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07-05-2008, 01:03 AM | #27 | |
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I think people generally understand what a nice engine sound is, so to a degree is is not subjective. The exhaust sound on the c63 is bar none one of the best out there, especially for a sedan. If you dont like the sound of a throaty exhaust, then maybe you prefer your car to be quieter, in which case the c63 is too loud, but still has a great exhaust. the sound is also not intrusive in the cabin unless you really hammer the pedal. as was said above, the COMMAND system is much better than the idrive system, and there have been numerous complaints on this forum about the intuitiveness of the navigation system in the m3. The c63 dash seems to have even fewer buttons than the m3 dash. there is barely anything to distinguish the m3 dash from a regular 335 coupe, and if you dont order the nav option, you get a terrible looking dash. the seats in the C63 are unquestionably better than the m3's. they are supportive, and have real side bolsters that close on your sides, not air bladders that inflate like the m3. they are no more firm than any other German make. in fact, the porsche 911 sport seats, which are excellent, are even firmer. again, if you dont find the seats comfortable (maybe they are too bolstered, or too narrow), then i would still suggest to you that the seats are far superior from a sporting standpoint. i would also suggest to you that you go look at the car, and look at it without bias. i am a real m car fan, and i absolutely love my e46 m3. i am both excited by the e92, and disappointed by it as well. mercedes has done a great job with the c63, and its definitely worth a look. the decision is not objective, but there are objective components to it. and they dont have the same performance numbers, the c63 is faster and it feels it. finally, like i said in my post, i havent made up my mind yet due to my not having driven the 2 variants of the cars that i would buy. i know this is a bmw forum, but i think you like most people want the best car for yourself, and as a bmw m3 fan, im telling you not to discount the c63. believe me, i am sincerely hoping that when i drive the dct m3 next week, i will go back to being an m car fan through and through. |
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07-06-2008, 01:04 PM | #28 |
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I'm probably getting a E90 because when Benz offer their DSG version on their C63 i probably don't want the auto version. Also i've called many benz dealer and I can get more of a discount on the M not to mention less gas tax and free maintance.
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07-06-2008, 01:29 PM | #29 | |
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Stop trying to give your opinions weight by labelling them as objective. Your entire post is subjective. Your opinion is certainly as worthwhile as anyone else's, however. I disagree with several statements you've made, but that's not a big deal.
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07-06-2008, 01:52 PM | #30 |
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How about weight, i'm not sure why i'm not seeing a weight comparison. i'd do the research but right now I do no have the time. Something tells me the another explanation as to why the C63 may not be as fast as an M3 is its weight. If hey were equal rape, the M3 would most likely get raped.. but this is discounting suspension comparison, aerodynamics, downforce etc.
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07-06-2008, 07:45 PM | #31 | |
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I just filled out a JD Power report and they asked about issues, likes and dislikes. They asked tons of things, from "rattles? coming from where?" to "are the door handles difficult to pull" and "is the sound of the door closing pleasant." No wonder some cars suffer such bad reviews... people are given so many opportunities to complain. I couldn't believe the amount of detail! But I seriously only had one issue, with the cam position sensor which was an easy fix. They asked what I would improve and I could only come up with two things: Larger gas tank would be nice and I would like the iPod to display info in the Nav, rather than just show info in the center gauge cluster. The car is completely solid and I am very happy I made this choice.
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07-06-2008, 07:48 PM | #32 | |
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And Hans, you descriptions of the AMG are very seriously swaying me. |
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07-06-2008, 07:52 PM | #33 | |
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07-06-2008, 08:54 PM | #34 | |||
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An AC Cobra () doesn't sound anything like a Ferrari Enzo (http://www.revver.com/video/443719/ferrari-enzo-sound/) and both are considered "nice" engine sounds. If you agree they don't sound anything alike can you objectively say which is better? Personally, I like the Ferrari better. It's easy to choose if you think it's subjective. Quote:
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In any case, if this stuff is so objective, then why do I need to see either car in person or even just pictures and sound clips if I can't find one in person? Can't I just read a magazine review and then buy the car that the reviewer has "objectively" decided is the better car? The objective conclusion by the majority of magazines was that the M3 is the better car. If I was guessing, I'd guess that your objective conclusion is that those objective conclusions are wrong, right? I think that's good for you, but then again I think these things are subjective and we can have opposite opinions and both be "right". Just don't tell me that "objectively" the C63 is the better car because then you are wrong. Objectively it accelerates faster, but that isn't the definition of a "better car". |
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07-06-2008, 11:21 PM | #35 | |
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Haha, thanks for the english lessons buddy. Nobody is trying to give their opinions weight by labeling them as objective. certainly i dont do this anywhere in my post, so maybe before you tell me im doing so for saying a nice engine note is "not entirely subjective", you could read my post again. in fact, i think i say that the whole decision process is "not objective".
i dont present my views as concrete, im just writing my opinion, and its cool that people dont agree (you obviously dont). im glad you disagree, and id rather you have written why than misrepresent what i said, since as i explained i am trying to make a decision. im not writing on this forum to preach, im writing to initiate discussion and bring in other views. perhaps i should have put more IMO's in my paragraph or whatever, i just thought it was generally understood as an opinion. Quote:
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07-06-2008, 11:53 PM | #36 | |
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Im not going to argue with you over which sound is nice or not, thats not my intention. im just giving you my opinion on the two cars, im not trying to force my views on you, so stop reacting as if i am. ive heard plenty of exhaust sounds, so my horizons are adequately expanded. im just another car guy giving you (a car guy who hasnt driven the c63) my opinion on both cars. i think its already been said, but ill say it again. the engine note on the c63 cant really be replicated through your computer speakers. people on youtube recording the exhaust sound are hardly using professional grade sound equipment to capture the noise. if you dont like it, thats cool, but it doesnt sound like it does on the net. and oddly enough, the exhaust from the modern performance car is like a finely tuned instrument, companies go to great lengths to fabricate a sound from the exhaust. so in this case, you would be listening to a finely tuned "instrument" of sorts through a recording that cant actually capture it properly. you are right about the number of buttons on the dashes. sorry, i didnt count them before. it just felt form the cockpit of both cars that the c63 has fewer buttons, because the dash layout -in my opionion- is better in the merc. about the comparison of m3-3 series and c63 -c350, part of my answer would be that the c class already has imo a better looking dash, with simpler to use controls. the trim on the c63 is a bit more upgraded that the c350, leather on the doors, etc. again, i didnt expect to have to defend my view so literally, so suffice it to say that my opionin is that the c63 has a better interior, and i encourage you to go look at both. one thing of note however, is that the overall shape of the dash remains intact in the merc whether you order the nav option or not, whereas this is not the case in the m3/3series (imo) with the e63, again, not to tell you i am right and you are wrong, but i would want you to know that the c63 interior is very different that the e class, and the seats are miles better imo in the c63. they are completely different seats. i dislike the e class immensely, as i do most mercedes. once again, the c63 is not like other benzes. finally, to address your last point, i think you like the other guy are getting carried away with the whole objective thing. i never said its objective, in fact i said its not objective. nor did i say acceleration makes it a better car. i really dont see why my post brought out such a defensive position, or you feel the need to misrepresent what i said to make a point about objectivity. i think i even finished off by saying that i lke bmw, i have an m3...etc, so there is no mercedes fan boy stuff going on here. no one is disrespecting or belittling your opinion. on the contrary, i welcome yours as another fan of bmw's. but you havent seen the c63, and if like me youre not interesting in internet bickering but just in hearing some opinions, than you should look at this car, again, in my opinion. |
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07-07-2008, 08:01 PM | #37 | |
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There is a sound clip of the C63 as an intro on the AMG web site. If that wasn't done as professionally as any other sound recording then you can blame AMG, not YouTube. OK, there is no difference between an exhaust and a fine instrument, designed to hang beneath a vehicle moving at 100-200 mph and be worked on, replaced or repaired by the same mechanic that changes the oil who may or may not be deaf. Fine, the seats in the C63 are so much better than those in the E63 (also an AMG product, BTW, and not an "e class" just like the C63 is not a "c class") and the M3. This started as a discussion about the difference between objective and subjective and seems to have deteriorated into a discussion about the relative "value" of subjective opinions formed by anything other than direct experience. If direct experience is so important than I really have to wonder why MB/AMG didn't even have this car at the AutoShow (with the M3, IS-F and CTS-V) let alone widely available at dealerships? If my subjective opinion is wrong (entirely possible) it's not for lack of trying. |
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