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      11-23-2018, 12:11 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josec70 View Post
Phatcat, hope you're well brother.

The "really" comment was directed at the insinuation that any F90 owners have proclaimed it to be on the level of a McClaren or Ferrari .... not exactly an apples to apples comparison but incredible what the F90 can do given it's a a 4 door sedan.

It may appear on the surface that the F90 M5 was a lazy effort from BMW but this car's so much better in every aspect than the F10 M5 that's it's not even close (steering feel remains poor) ..... to the individual who's not owned / driven both extensively the improvements in the F90 M5 may not be as readily apparent especially if you focus on technical reviews. Having owned two F10 M5's over a 6 period I can say w/o any hesitation that the F90 M5 is a huge improvement in almost every single aspect and I'm enjoying every minute behind the wheel.

I've also owned an E39 and E60 M5's and the F90 is hands-down the best I've owned.

BMW could have gotten a little more creative with the exterior but like you mentioned the F10 M5 exterior, in my eyes, was just about perfect.
I think there are a couple key points here; first is the fact the F90 M5 is not supposed to be a Ferrari or Mclaren fighter. That said - it IS giving supercars - performance specific cars - much more of a run for their money - and beating many of them - than it should. Let's not forget, this is a 4300lb, 16+ foot, four door, FAMILY luxury GT sedan people. But almost 10.8's at almost 130 MPH - stock?

That is crazy - for what the car is.

As to the other points - saying what is or is not enough of a "change" is personal and therefore subjective. The performance piece however - certainly is not - like steering, to brakes to actual objective performance numbers.

And yes. AWD did make things a whole new ballgame doe.
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      11-23-2018, 04:53 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by josec70 View Post
Phatcat, hope you're well brother.

The "really" comment was directed at the insinuation that any F90 owners have proclaimed it to be on the level of a McClaren or Ferrari .... not exactly an apples to apples comparison but incredible what the F90 can do given it's a a 4 door sedan.

It may appear on the surface that the F90 M5 was a lazy effort from BMW but this car's so much better in every aspect than the F10 M5 that's it's not even close (steering feel remains poor) ..... to the individual who's not owned / driven both extensively the improvements in the F90 M5 may not be as readily apparent especially if you focus on technical reviews. Having owned two F10 M5's over a 6 period I can say w/o any hesitation that the F90 M5 is a huge improvement in almost every single aspect and I'm enjoying every minute behind the wheel.

I've also owned an E39 and E60 M5's and the F90 is hands-down the best I've owned.

BMW could have gotten a little more creative with the exterior but like you mentioned the F10 M5 exterior, in my eyes, was just about perfect.
I think there are a couple key points here; first is the fact the F90 M5 is not supposed to be a Ferrari or Mclaren fighter. That said - it IS giving supercars - performance specific cars - much more of a run for their money - and beating many of them - than it should. Let's not forget, this is a 4300lb, 16+ foot, four door, FAMILY luxury GT sedan people. But almost 10.8's at almost 130 MPH - stock?

That is crazy - for what the car is.

As to the other points - saying what is or is not enough of a "change" is personal and therefore subjective. The performance piece however - certainly is not - like steering, to brakes to actual objective performance numbers.

And yes. AWD did make things a whole new ballgame doe.
Spot on!
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CURRENT: 22' INDIVIDUAL M5| CHALK | TARTUFO | CCB | MPE | H&R | IND
GONE: 19' M5C| SINGAPORE GREY| ARAGON|VELOS VLS-06|H&R|iPE|IND|XPEL|CF|RADENSO
GONE: 15' F10 M5|BSM|BLACK|VELOS VSS-S2|KW|AKRA|IND|CF |ESCORT 360|VELOS PIGGY
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LONG GONE: 09' E60 M5|02' E39 M5
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      11-23-2018, 10:38 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Ya, the e60 was clearly better than the e39 for the 20 minutes between refueling stops.

In all seriousness, the numbers looked good on the e60 but the experience wasn't with the constant complaints about poor torque at low rpms, essentially SMG-only, lubrication issues.
I had the manual E60, it was heavenly.....
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      11-23-2018, 02:38 PM   #70
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I have ridden in the E39, and driven and ridden in the E60. The E60 is a whole new ball game. It may be more techy (a retarded tech fest to be honest), but it was the most focused M5 ever made. It was essentially a racing car driver in a suit. The steering was very very good and tactile, the transmission was rough and jerky, but marvellous at speed, the exhaust is awesome, and the car was made to be driven between 5 and 8.5k rpm. It was flawed in terms of usability, but boy was it a treat to drive fast. It didn't have the same directness in the chassis of say an F90 or F10 CP, or the same outright effort speed, but it was a peach. It had a totally different focus to that of the E39. The F10 and F90 are the real successors to the E39, with the more lazy backed driving manners, while the E60 was meant to represent that BMW was in F1 through Williams.

To my eyes the E60, is the best M5 in the sense of being a sports car. I remember at the time the hype surrounding it. Even here people were extremely hyped about it. It sounds gorgeous, and although it had a brittle ride quality, and jerky transmission and was extremely prone to reliability issues, it was the best sedan for driving until I belive this new batch of supersaloons came out (F90 and W213, and new Panny). The F10 or W212 were no where near as exciting to drive.
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      11-24-2018, 05:14 AM   #71
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Hello everything is good!

Yeah I can see both side of the argument. From pictures and specs F90 doesn't appear to be a big jump from the F10, I can see why some may think so.

While I don't have extensive time with the F90 since I don't have one, but the drivability and usability has vastly improved. The ZF box has made city driving a far better experience and AWD made the M5 much more capable in bad weather. Like you said, one needs spend time with the F90 in order to appreciate the leap it has over the F10.
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      11-24-2018, 08:31 AM   #72
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I can appreciate and totally understand the statement on feeling like not wishing this car wasn't going so fast. It's so thrilling on acceleration and speed just sneaks up on you so quick. 5 seconds full throttle at 60 and I'm already at felony speeds already hitting the brakes. Unfortunately in the DC area, you gotta get a good ways away from the area before you can safely enjoy this car.
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      11-29-2018, 05:02 PM   #73
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with M cars now coming with xdrive, I'm not sure who will buy an Audi RS car anymore...
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