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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 vs...    F90 M5 At Vs F10 M5 Dct

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      06-02-2018, 10:05 AM   #23
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The main problem with the ZF8 is the paddle response, not the actual shift times.
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      06-02-2018, 11:00 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somer View Post
The main problem with the ZF8 is the paddle response, not the actual shift times.
Completely agree. The lag between the actual gear shift and the pull of the paddle is very dissatisfying. Also, the paddles aren’t as nice as the previous generation. I find myself driving in auto way more than I used to.
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      06-03-2018, 03:41 AM   #25
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After waiting for almost 2 weeks, I finally got to do the M5 test drive on Saturday. It was fairly short, combined city streets, highway, industrial area roads with minimum traffic, all that in about 20-25 mins.

The F90 M5 is FAST, in fact, a little too fast to be usable in crowded city driving and yet the new transmission (AT) makes the drive so smooth and comfortable. I had doubt about the AT replacing DCT but quickly realized the programming plays a major role in this scenario. Although this is an AT, in sport/sport+, its behavior is very similar to what DCT offered. Maybe the paddle responds has a very slight delay, just maybe, but to me that's totally acceptable.

I like everything about the F90 M5 except for the steering feedback. A lot of what's going on from the surface of the road to the steering wheel is filtered.

The test drive wasn't long enough to get everything out of the M5, however, I definitely got answers for my concerns prior to the test drive. My question now is should I go with the F90 M5 or maybe M550i is good enough. That's a 42k price difference question I need to figure out. (Dealer has a few deep discounted M550i)

By the way, Porsche sent me Panamera test drive event invitation just recently. I'll go give it a try and see what differences in driving experience there will be.

Oh, and one other thing, the car I tested has Michelin PS4S, those tires are AMAZING. I'm going to replacing my 911 tires with those after next track day for sure.

I'll start up another thread if my finally decision goes to the F90 M5. Thanks again for sharing all your opinions and thoughts
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      03-16-2019, 03:34 PM   #26
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So Correct me if I'm wrong ~ F10 DCT shifts faster than the ZF8 on F90 M5, correct?
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      03-18-2019, 01:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by nysid2007 View Post
So Correct me if I'm wrong ~ F10 DCT shifts faster than the ZF8 on F90 M5, correct?
The DCT is faster for correctly predicted sequential changes, i.e. if you're in say 3rd and the DCT correctly predicted an imminent shift to 4th, that shift is a little faster than the quickest comparable shift that the ZF can rattle off. However, if the shift is non-sequential--a kick-down scenario, for example--then the ZF and DCT are similar with the ZF winning by perhaps a hair.
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      03-20-2019, 12:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I still miss the days when you upshifted in an E60 M5 with the SMG and the gears shifted so hard, your teeth fillings almost fell out. That was a memorable experience. With the DCT I'll never forget my first experience upshifting gears on the Nurburging and being in utter disbelief as to how unbelievably fast it changed gears, the DCT seemed almost telepathic to me back then. That was a memorable experience.
People who talk about fast shift times don't realize that the time it takes for engine rpm to fall or build up takes more than the actual shift. The reason why I prefer DCT/MT is it is geared so well that you get proper excitement revving out each shift vs. ZFat where you just shift endlessly to cruise on 8th.

Sure, F90 M5s are faster than F10/E60 0-60, but people never talk about 60-120 (the practical zone) or 120-200(the M zone) on track/curvy roads where E60 out handles both of them due to the best power-weight ratio with 8250 rpm engine.

These cars are all about excitement, but "new guys" seem to only care about beating an Audi from stop light. Motorsport doesn't mean 0-60 all day long..

Still can't forget the day when I followed a random M5 on highway and the owner was kind enough to let me hear the sonorous S85.
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      03-20-2019, 01:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
People who talk about fast shift times don't realize that the time it takes for engine rpm to fall or build up takes more than the actual shift. The reason why I prefer DCT/MT is it is geared so well that you get proper excitement revving out each shift vs. ZFat where you just shift endlessly to cruise on 8th.

Sure, F90 M5s are faster than F10/E60 0-60, but people never talk about 60-120 (the practical zone) or 120-200(the M zone) on track/curvy roads where E60 out handles both of them due to the best power-weight ratio with 8250 rpm engine.

These cars are all about excitement, but "new guys" seem to only care about beating an Audi from stop light. Motorsport doesn't mean 0-60 all day long..

Still can't forget the day when I followed a random M5 on highway and the owner was kind enough to let me hear the sonorous S85.
I sure understand your perspective. I don't personally agree with it because 99.9% of these cars never see the track or even a dragstrip. My F90 will likely see both so perhaps my opinion will change but I doubt it.

I also had 2 x E60s and 3 x F10 M5s and, for any of the vehicle attributes that comprise my subjective opinion of a car, there is nothing about the E60 that comes even remotely close to being better than an F90. The F10's DCT might be my preference but I haven't had enough time with the ZFat to be sure.

// EDIT: actually, there is something about the E60 M5, it's exhaust note/V10/red-line... all of which you mentioned--yup, you're right on that front but that is indeed the price of progress.
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      03-20-2019, 01:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
I sure understand your perspective. I don't personally agree with it because 99.9% of these cars never see the track or even a dragstrip. My F90 will likely see both so perhaps my opinion will change but I doubt it.

I also had 2 x E60s and 3 x F10 M5s and, for any of the vehicle attributes that comprise my subjective opinion of a car, there is nothing about the E60 that comes even remotely close to being better than an F90. The F10's DCT might be my preference but I haven't had enough time with the ZFat to be sure.
I think what they've done with F90 is a great effort.

Just can't get off the mind "what if" it came with DCT- would have made the car a little bit more special and THE super sedan to get. Driven N55 M2 DCT a few months ago and I never felt any "jerkiness" around town, but probably because I'm used to driving manual transmission and know how to modulate throttle before clutch engagement.
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      03-21-2019, 10:59 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
People who talk about fast shift times don't realize that the time it takes for engine rpm to fall or build up takes more than the actual shift. The reason why I prefer DCT/MT is it is geared so well that you get proper excitement revving out each shift vs. ZFat where you just shift endlessly to cruise on 8th.

Sure, F90 M5s are faster than F10/E60 0-60, but people never talk about 60-120 (the practical zone) or 120-200(the M zone) on track/curvy roads where E60 out handles both of them due to the best power-weight ratio with 8250 rpm engine.

These cars are all about excitement, but "new guys" seem to only care about beating an Audi from stop light. Motorsport doesn't mean 0-60 all day long..

Still can't forget the day when I followed a random M5 on highway and the owner was kind enough to let me hear the sonorous S85.
Pretty much.... the long gearing of the F10 M5 DCT is awesome. Ringing the car out in 4th gear from about 75-145 is SO much fun.
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