[Savoy2001]

Even if it can compete. Wouldn't a car with 700+hp weighing 42-440lbs compete better? Take current gen f90 with another 100-150 hp and now what do you have? I'll tell you. You would have the true next gen successor to the F90 that's what you'd have. Instead we're most likely getting a very compromised heavy car that will be decent on track at best with a goofy amount of weight to have to contend with and for what?

[TFBravo]

Originally Posted by Elanderholm

If the new m5 is that heavy it’s over for me. I’ve owned a f10 and f90 competition but this makes no sense. Hopefully lucid is still around in a year or two.

Watch the hot lap with the lucid. It’s already superior in every way than what bmw will be producing in the new m5.

You realize that spec of lucid is north of 200k, that's an abhorrent price for a 4 door grocery getter. You can get 3 slightly used M5s or 3 brand new Plaids for that price! For that price BMW should not even be in the picture, it better be superior than Porsche and anything else north of 150k, including 1000hp EVs, which it couldn't beat Plaid in any measure of performance. At 90k Model S Plaid looks like a bargain more and more.

[M5F90]

Originally Posted by LouK

I posted this on the original one on BP but just so everyone here can see as well
Pounds per HP

“G90 M5 (718) 7.476
F90 M5C (617) 7.082
F10 M5 (553) 7.35
E60 M5 (500) 7.963

Some quoted weights jump around so these may not be 100% but gives you an idea of the M5 over the last 20ish years.”

I think it makes sense to look at the weight and torque rather than at HP when comparing.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Even if it can compete. Wouldn't a car with 700+hp weighing 42-440lbs compete better? Take current gen f90 with another 100-150 hp and now what do you have? I'll tell you. You would have the true next gen successor to the F90 that's what you'd have. Instead we're most likely getting a very compromised heavy car that will be decent on track at best with a goofy amount of weight to have to contend with and for what?

Yes of course it would be better to take an f90 pump it up an additional 100-150HP, and even better than that would be 3200lbs and 800 hp. but thats not going to happen in this car LOL.

But, as cars and the world evolves cars change. Maybe look at the badge on the back and realize maybe what used to be the M5 is now the M3 and so on. The good news is there is a lot of cars out there lighter that perform well including BMWs if the G90 doesn't do it for you.

But let's not forget the F90 is not putting out 617hp either its closer to 675-700 already. So its likely the G90 will be closer 800 (lets hope)...

Also, while yes 100-150 more HP and lighter than the F90 would be ideal, but remember They're pushing the limits of what a ICE v8 can do (relatively reliably and not blow up every 10k miles), while also complying with all the absurd regulations governments put on car manufactures for safety, emissions, gas mileage etc. Not too many (if any) ICE non-hyper cars putting down 650-700hp. Z06 C8 670HP is one of the only NON-Exotic form Hyper cars putting out that kind of power, and we know its 670HP at the crank, not wheels, where the F90 is likely at least 670 at the crank already. Only a few and their peformance isnt much (if at all) better than the F90. IE hellcats, GT500 etc, and we know what the F90 does to hellcats around a track and drag strip.

I guess we'll have to see, the sapphire does just fine apparently at 5300 lbs and 1200 hp LOL, and the X5M does pretty well at 5500 LBs and 617 hp. I have to imagine the G90 if 720 hp and 5300 hp, it should be able to at least beat the current F90 track time considering its a couple hundred lighter and 100 more hp than the X5M that did 2:59 on that track that the F90 did 2:54. Yes 5 seconds is a lot, but it's also a 5500 lb SUV with the same power as the F90 at 4300Lbs. Have to imagine an additional 100 hp and 200lbs less should be at least 5 seconds quicker than the X5M.

This assumes again, that everything leaked is accurate, and BMW didnt underrate it substantially and over rate the weight.

Im with you the car is a fat pig, and it's concerning. But the Lucid kicked the shit out the F90 and is 1000lbs heavier. Yes... also 4-500 more HP (assuming the G90 is a true 800HP, the same way they likely measure the 1200 from lucid)... LOL... But somewhere between the 2 is I think where the G90 will come in.

I think if the G90 can come in on that track for instance at 2:50-2:53, thats pretty respectable. Since the "much lighter smaller better handling" G80 did 2:53.5...

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by TFBravo

You realize that spec of lucid is north of 200k, that's an abhorrent price for a 4 door grocery getter. You can get 3 slightly used M5s or 3 brand new Plaids for that price! For that price BMW should not even be in the picture, it better be superior than Porsche and anything else north of 150k, including 1000hp EVs, which it couldn't beat Plaid in any measure of performance. At 90k Model S Plaid looks like a bargain more and more.

Yes for 200k and 1200 HP it should best a lot of cars lol.... but the Sapphire did beat the Plaid in their tests on the same track.

We shall see, it'll be interesting.

[Demon Barber]

The XM barely makes 3.4 seconds 0 to 60 with its hybrid powertrain and it weights about 6000 pounds. Unless the new M5 has an even more potent powerplant up its sleeve, it's hard to imagine the same power at 5400 pounds beating the current 4500 pound F90 performance. But then again, it's hard to imagine BMW putting out their next gen M5 that doesn't outperform its last one. It will have to produce substantially bigger power numbers than the XM, with which I initially thought it would share a nearly identical powertrain.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Demon Barber

The XM barely makes 3.4 seconds 0 to 60 with its hybrid powertrain and it weights about 6000 pounds. Unless the new M5 has an even more potent powerplant up its sleeve, it's hard to imagine the same power at 5400 pounds beating the current 4500 pound F90 performance. But then again, it's hard to imagine BMW putting out their next gen M5 that doesn't outperform its last one. It will have to produce substantially bigger power numbers than the XM, with which I initially thought it would share a nearly identical powertrain.

Was this the 644 hp base or the 738hp label ? I know I read estimates of 3.7 0-60, but they thought the base tested at 3.4?

For how big and fat it is, 3.4 isnt that bad if 644 hp version. If thats the case I would imagine could shave another .2-.3 off that time on the label?

And maybe just maybe if the base M5 is 718 hp on the base we could actually expect a "label" or comp version of the M5? Maybe it would also be 100 HP more, 815hp? that should be enough to get the M5 down below or right at 2.8-3.0 0-60.

Who knows the reality, but im trying to stay positive about it.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Demon Barber

The XM barely makes 3.4 seconds 0 to 60 with its hybrid powertrain and it weights about 6000 pounds. Unless the new M5 has an even more potent powerplant up its sleeve, it's hard to imagine the same power at 5400 pounds beating the current 4500 pound F90 performance. But then again, it's hard to imagine BMW putting out their next gen M5 that doesn't outperform its last one. It will have to produce substantially bigger power numbers than the XM, with which I initially thought it would share a nearly identical powertrain.

Was this the 644 hp base or the 738hp label ? I know I read estimates of 3.7 0-60, but they thought the base tested at 3.4?

For how big and fat it is, 3.4 isnt that bad if 644 hp version. If thats the case I would imagine could shave another .2-.3 off that time on the label?

And maybe just maybe if the base M5 is 718 hp on the base we could actually expect a "label" or comp version of the M5? Maybe it would also be 100 HP more, 815hp? that should be enough to get the M5 down below or right at 2.8-3.0 0-60.

Who knows the reality, but im trying to stay positive about it.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

Ive also owned a f10 and f90 comp. currently. It's interesting to me the different view points based on the Lucid hot lap.... You see it as already far superior to what BMW WILL be producing, meaning we've yet to see all the tests and specifics of the new M5.

Ill agree I have some reservations and concerns but im definitely not ruling it out yet. Why? Well for the same reason you cited above, just opposing view of it....

I see the hot lap in the Lucid as promising for the new M5... If a young car company that doesn't have the racing heritage BMW has can make that equally fat pig drive decent around a track and have some record breaking or near record breaking speeds, then I see potential from BMW. Sure the claims of 718 hp ( "leaked" information?) on the surface are disappointing, but we don't even know the real numbers yet. Yes, the Lucid has 1200hp on tap.. but they seemed to think it handled well also, and was able to get around pretty well for its size. They of course had to make braking adjustments and get used to the power, but with that, I see potential in the new M5. If Lucid can make that pig do well around the track, I find it hard to believe BMW wont be able to. I mean it did 2:44 which is pretty damn good company to be in on that track if you look at the top 25 times. Sure I doubt the M5 will be as fast , but it also doesnt have 1200 hp, but doesnt mean it wont still be damn fast around that track. F90 Comp did 2:54 flat, and the BMW that everyone usually cites as the better handling option over the F90, is the G80 comp x-drive, and it did 2:53.5. If you take the Lucid 5300 weight and can achieve 2:44, have to imagine the M5 can be in the mix also, not 2:44 with out massive power gains, but I don't think current M3 or M5 times are out of the question , and maybe even a little better as we dont know yet the real weight and power, and how well the power will be delivered.

I mean in the same video we see they tested a X5M also. X5M is 5500 lbs, and 617 hp. it was able to squeak out a 2:58.. And thats faster than a lot of pretty fast cars known for their track times and handling .... such as : Civic Type R, C6 Z06 Corvette, new supra, 2019 M2 Comp. to name a few.... and its a 5500 SUV with 1/2 the power of the Lucid.

But... thats assuming all these leaked numbers are correct. Am I the only one who thinks this "leak" could be partially shenanigans? BMW is the king of underrating the power on M cars, and overstating their weight. SO im hopeful maybe thats the case. And as usual there will be more variants like a comp, red label, CS (lol) who knows what theyll call them, but im sure there is more to this story than 718hp and 5300 lbs. Time will tell.

I guess my biggest point is, saying a 5300lb M car will never be able to compete is silly, when a current 5500lb M SUV with less power can compete as it sits right now. Especially when we haven't seen tests or real hard facts about the M5 right yet.

There is a problem with your logic.

First a LUCID Air has a great degree of engineering behind it, with several engineers from Lotus. Secondly the Lucid has a lot more power, and less weight. Thirdly, electric engines allow for much better traction control systems and traction management, as you can easily cut and return power. Lastly, far lower center of gravity.

In case of the X5M we are talking about a car that is the same weight as the alleged weight of the new M5. It did an impressive time. Still, there is 3.5s between it and the F90 M5. Its not that simple. 3.5s is a lot of time. Will it be faster than the X5M? Most likely, but by how much? Will that be enough to beat the M5 F90? I am not sure.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

There is a problem with your logic.

First a LUCID Air has a great degree of engineering behind it, with several engineers from Lotus. Secondly the Lucid has a lot more power, and less weight. Thirdly, electric engines allow for much better traction control systems and traction management, as you can easily cut and return power. Lastly, far lower center of gravity.

In case of the X5M we are talking about a car that is the same weight as the alleged weight of the new M5. It did an impressive time. Still, there is 3.5s between it and the F90 M5. Its not that simple. 3.5s is a lot of time. Will it be faster than the X5M? Most likely, but by how much? Will that be enough to beat the M5 F90? I am not sure.

I understand the lucid has a lot more power. And I’m not saying I think the new m5 will be as fast as that. With that said, the lucid and proposed m5 weight are with in a couple pounds of each other. Which are both a tad lighter than the x5m.

Do we know what the center of gravity on the new m5 will be? I’m not aware of any real specs we’ve seen so far, so there’s no way to know at this stage what the center of gravity will be.

Isn’t the new m5 going to have some forms of electric motors also? And do you not think bmw has M engineers who are usually regarded as pretty decent in terms of engineering a well balanced great handling powerful sedan? They’ve been doing it awhile, and I’m sure they’re as capable as lotus engineers.

The new x5m is 2-300lbs more than the proposed m5 weight. And less power. I don’t know how that can’t mean the m5 will be at least on par with the f90. I find to hard to believe a lighter lower more powerful car (m5) couldn’t do better then the x5m currently does.

Also we don’t know if this is the base model or if its power and weight are true at this stage. The XM base vs Label Red has at least .2-.5 difference in just 0-60times, and it’s 6,000 lbs 3.4 is what the base did. I can’t imagine the m5 will be slower than the base XM.

But time will certainly tell.

I’m not saying to not be concerned with the new m5 but I’m simply saying as shown in the video a heavy car can still be very capable. With the right engineering and power, and i think bmw probably has some tricks up their sleeves. This isn’t something they just pulled out of the hat last year.

I’m sure they’ve been working on this for many many years.

[FC]

I think that BMW is trying to fight the fact that other fat-pig electrics feel and really fast to most consumers the way they are driven most. I'm sure the G90 will lay down downright stupid 0-60 & 0-100 numbers thanks to the electric power. It might, amazingly and incomprehensibly, pull off equal to or even slightly better track times than the F90,, but it will almost certainly feel heavier and be less fun on the track and twisty roads.

[malrash]

That’s like my CS plus 5 baby elephants in the car. 4 in the buckets and one in the trunk!
4000 + 5(300) = 5500
Lol

[pmsteinm]

"There's that word again. 'Heavy.' Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?"

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by pmsteinm

"There's that word again. 'Heavy.' Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?"

Say what?

[Elanderholm]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Say what?

All We need it 1.21 gigawatts

[Elanderholm]

This pig will have all the weight of the electrics or more and none of the torque vectoring or insane power levels. Just a super heavy complicated hybrid system. It truly is worst of all worlds. Bravo, BMW!

[Elanderholm]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

Yes for 200k and 1200 HP it should best a lot of cars lol.... but the Sapphire did beat the Plaid in their tests on the same track.

We shall see, it'll be interesting.

It didn’t beat the plaid at VIR it destroyed it with worse tires and the plaid had a pro driver and modifications.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

I understand the lucid has a lot more power. And I’m not saying I think the new m5 will be as fast as that. With that said, the lucid and proposed m5 weight are with in a couple pounds of each other. Which are both a tad lighter than the x5m.

Do we know what the center of gravity on the new m5 will be? I’m not aware of any real specs we’ve seen so far, so there’s no way to know at this stage what the center of gravity will be.

Isn’t the new m5 going to have some forms of electric motors also? And do you not think bmw has M engineers who are usually regarded as pretty decent in terms of engineering a well balanced great handling powerful sedan? They’ve been doing it awhile, and I’m sure they’re as capable as lotus engineers.

The new x5m is 2-300lbs more than the proposed m5 weight. And less power. I don’t know how that can’t mean the m5 will be at least on par with the f90. I find to hard to believe a lighter lower more powerful car (m5) couldn’t do better then the x5m currently does.

Also we don’t know if this is the base model or if its power and weight are true at this stage. The XM base vs Label Red has at least .2-.5 difference in just 0-60times, and it’s 6,000 lbs 3.4 is what the base did. I can’t imagine the m5 will be slower than the base XM.

But time will certainly tell.

I’m not saying to not be concerned with the new m5 but I’m simply saying as shown in the video a heavy car can still be very capable. With the right engineering and power, and i think bmw probably has some tricks up their sleeves. This isn’t something they just pulled out of the hat last year.

I’m sure they’ve been working on this for many many years.

You are wrong. The X5M is pretty much the same weight as the alleged weight for the G90 M5. 5468 lbs for the X5M and 5368 lbs for the M5 G90. 100lbs is not that much of a difference, compared to the 1111 lbs in the case of the F90 vs G90. No way in hell the G90 will rotate as well as the F90. More to the fact, the X5M Competition also has larger tyres, both in width and thread. I am not sure the G90 M5 will be much grippier, but it certainly will have a much better center of gravity and weight distribution.

I don't doubt the G90 M5 will have great engineering. But I am not impressed with it. It should not be this heavy. Its heavier than all EVs, and its heavy even compared to the hybrid cars. I am not even taking into consideration the fact that its a lot heavier than the outgoing model.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by Elanderholm

It didn’t beat the plaid at VIR it destroyed it with worse tires and the plaid had a pro driver and modifications.

Yes, I know, I was trying to be cordial to someone else who said the plaid beat the sapphire in every single measurable performance test... except at VIR, where it got its ass handed to it.

The modified, and professional driven model S plaid was closer to am F90 M5 than it was the LUCID, 2:50.7, and the F90 did 2:54, only 3.3 slower than the 1000 hp plaid, and it was modified.

The taycan turbo S, also lost to the F90 by a second or 2. So I have to imagine BMW has cars like the plaid, and taycan firmly in their gun sights.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

You are wrong. The X5M is pretty much the same weight as the alleged weight for the G90 M5. 5468 lbs for the X5M and 5368 lbs for the M5 G90. 100lbs is not that much of a difference, compared to the 1111 lbs in the case of the F90 vs G90. No way in hell the G90 will rotate as well as the F90. More to the fact, the X5M Competition also has larger tyres, both in width and thread. I am not sure the G90 M5 will be much grippier, but it certainly will have a much better center of gravity and weight distribution.

I don't doubt the G90 M5 will have great engineering. But I am not impressed with it. It should not be this heavy. Its heavier than all EVs, and its heavy even compared to the hybrid cars. I am not even taking into consideration the fact that its a lot heavier than the outgoing model.

BMWUSA.com cites the X5M at 5455lbs here : https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo...ures-and-specs

The proposed G90 weight is 53 and some change ? I said the X5M is close, but 2-300lbs more. so I suppose I was off by a little, its 1-200lbs heavier than the proposed G90, which we dont know which are dry weight or weight with certain options etc. I wasnt far enough off to change the argument LOL. literally splitting hairs over like 75-100lbs. LOL, ok. You win.

But I also said the proposed output G90 will be somewhere around 100HP more than the X5M, and 1-200Lbs lighter, should yield faster track times than the X5M. So am I wrong there also? I mean im not wrong on the weights either, the G90 proposed weight is indeed lighter than the X5M, but yes it's negligible.

I hear what youre saying but the video posted suggests otherwise.... the lucid which is also 5300 lbs did quite well around the track.... yes a lot more power. And ive already said I dont think the g90 will beat the lucid, but to just write it off because it's 5300lbs is stupid. Because we literally see a 5400 lb SUV with less power, and a 5300 sedan with more power do quite well around a race track. which is what everyone's arguments are, is that the G90 will be a piece of shit fat pig that will plow through any corner into the spectator galleries.... thats simply not the case.

None of the data on the G90 is even 100% confirmed as accurate, and we have no idea the actual specs, and what the real power is.

They were able to get the XM base with 644 hp to do a 3.4 0-60, which isn't bad. The Label Red is 100 more HP, so have to imagine itll be 3.0-3.2 0-60, and still 6000 lbs. Faster than a Urus... If the G90 base is 718 HP, and they come out with an equivalent label red, or 'comp' model with 100 more hp, I have to imagine being 700 lbs lighter and more power than the XM, it should do some mid-high 2 second 0-60, like 2.6-2.9 range? And weve already seen via the lucid, X5M, Plaid, Taycan a heavy car can do just fine around a track as long as the brakes, tires, and power hold up.

Good news is, none of us have to buy it if it's a dog. Im simply saying to write it off like any of us have a clue what the car is really like at this stage is silly. You cant base anything from alleged data, some renderings, and a hunch when there is other cars we have current tangible data from to compile at least some decent estimates on times, and performance. It could very well be the best M5 to ever come out. I'll reserve that for when I see and drive it. It could also be the worst.

Its not heavier than ALL EVs LOL, it is heavier than some, lighter than some, and on par with some...

So if it has faster 0-60, 1/4mile, and track times are similar or better than whats the problem ? LOL. You say youre not impressed with it, neither am I. But not because of the information we currently have which is nearly nothing, lol. Im not impressed because there is nothing to be impressed or not impressed with at this stage.

[F10Mfizzy]

Garbage. 5400 pounds? lol Everyone hold onto their real v8 twin turbo. Will hold value down the line. I got a 20 with 13k miles and do no plan on ever getting rid of it. No issues at all. Just keep an eye on the coolant levels and the reservoir and your golden

[DarkM5]

i sure miss simpler times, now it's all about forced regulations, sky rocketing insurance premiums and outlandish service costs. the depreciation on these EV's and hybrids will drop like a rock, I'll just hang on to my current ice cars. but then again, the government knows what's best for us lol