[Greer]

Originally Posted by Adler11th

They do run out of juice and then you have a lower-powered V8 with a bunch of weight on it.

I would like to see some current XM owners comment on this because that SUV weighs a ton.

[Adler11th]

Originally Posted by Greer

I would like to see some current XM owners comment on this because that SUV weighs a ton.

Yus, there are few on bimmerpost, perhaps they can chime in on their first hand experience

[Bahn360Photo]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

In California we have better traffic

No arguing there! Haha

[tsbrown]

I love the idea of this car, but I just really struggle with the weight penalty. In the ICE era you got a lot more power in the ///M for little or no weight gain over the regular series car. Compared to the G60 540ix, for example, you’ll get about 90% more power for a 20% weight penalty. Sure that sounds like an easy decision, but still, the physics of making 5000lbs turn quickly. I tracked my DD E90 M3 for years and thought that 3700 lb car was a fat pig on the track. Then again I don’t recall seeing many M5s on the track so maybe it’s not much of an issue.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by tsbrown

I love the idea of this car, but I just really struggle with the weight penalty. In the ICE era you got a lot more power in the ///M for little or no weight gain over the regular series car. Compared to the G60 540ix, for example, you’ll get about 90% more power for a 20% weight penalty. Sure that sounds like an easy decision, but still, the physics of making 5000lbs turn quickly. I tracked my DD E90 M3 for years and thought that 3700 lb car was a fat pig on the track. Then again I don’t recall seeing many M5s on the track so maybe it’s not much of an issue.

I suppose you can take any vehicle on a track, but seems like there are so many better options for a race track than a station wagon.

[tsbrown]

Originally Posted by AHall

I suppose you can take any vehicle on a track, but seems like there are so many better options for a race track than a station wagon.

Ah right, it’s ///Marketing not ///Motorsport.

[Hansn]

Originally Posted by tsbrown

Ah right, it’s ///Marketing not ///Motorsport.

It has always been marketing. Eversince they used the racing engine in the E30 M3.. Its all about selling cars for a company that makes and sell cars. Even the racing IS about selling cars. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday..

These cars are made to go on the autobahn in their native country, not for autocross events or trackdays in the US.. If you want to build a track car you misunderstand completly if you are looking at a 5 series, an X series etc..

People should stop fooling themselves with the badge crying.. 😂 These are cars made for the road, not track even tho you can use them stock on track like any other car..

[tsbrown]

Originally Posted by Hansn

It has always been marketing. Eversince they used the racing engine in the E30 M3.. Its all about selling cars for a company that makes and sell cars. Even the racing IS about selling cars. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday..

These cars are made to go on the autobahn in their native country, not for autocross events or trackdays in the US.. If you want to build a track car you misunderstand completly if you are looking at a 5 series, an X series etc..

People should stop fooling themselves with the badge crying.. 😂 These are cars made for the road, not track even tho you can use them stock on track like any other car..

Having been on track many times with an unmodified M3 it’s clear they are made for the road so there’s no misunderstanding anything. Even my 5er M sport is too much of a barge for anything more sporting than daily driving streets and highways, but it’s great at what it does. However you can’t safely use 718bhp on American roads so it’s really just an arms race and ruler for your member. But do I still want one? Sure. Though maybe I’m more of an Alpina demographic now than M, except we can’t get the B3 or B5 here.

[shawnhayes]

So far as the "M5 isn't made for the track" - no one who tracks one cares. There's ALWAYS the argument that a road car can be easily bested by a very cheap track car. I've seen $300,000 McLarens EATEN ALIVE by Ariel Atoms. If you don't agree with their logic, that's okay, but it's what they like. You're just arguing personal preference. Really a waste of time.

But making a hybrid work LONG TERM on a track is really really hard. I've done it with a Volvo Polestar. Great for two laps (but limited to 111mph).

That's not a good argument against the G99. It's audience may not be track guys, but I'M SURE somebody is going to take one out on some racetrack to see what it will do. And it will be awesome - for a lap or two.

Shawn

[FSHNGRY]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Ask Porsche how their station wagons are doing in the US. Worldwide they only sold like 3400 units last year! Thats seriously pitiful sales performance. Wagons are niche vehicles and not widely considered.

This I true. I saw the panamera granturismo was discontinued due to poor sales.

I do think this wagon will be more successful than the pan GT- but not a home run.

I dig it solely for the fact of how rare it will be bc although many people love it- very few will have the wherewithal to actually buy a station wagon. Especially if it’s their only car.

[DCG]

Originally Posted by G30 B58

The M5 Touring is confirmed as coming to the states.

If this is true, that’s fantastic news! 👏🏻

Then, what’s the deal with the 2023 M3 Touring NOT making it to North America 🇺🇸🇨🇦?

20-years, that’s two decades of requesting BMW North America to please make a M3 Touring wagon a.k.a. The Unicorn 🦄.

To my knowledge and research the real reason why the M3 Touring didn’t make it to North America unfortunately is due to the rear boot, not passing stringent U.S. crash tests. And that would mean BMW M division would have to redesign the frame somehow. Unfortunately BMW did not do that. So I am now moving onto the X4, as the dream 💭 has been squashed.

Perhaps we will one day see the M3 Touring make it to the States.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by FSHNGRY

This I true. I saw the panamera granturismo was discontinued due to poor sales.

????

Maybe just the gran turismo?

Multiple "turismo" panameras are available. As well as Turismo models of the Taycan.

Porsche makes so many variants its easy to discontinue ONE. The others are frequently close.

Shawn

[Powerbeast]

Epic!

[FSHNGRY]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

????

Maybe just the gran turismo?

Multiple "turismo" panameras are available. As well as Turismo models of the Taycan.

Porsche makes so many variants its easy to discontinue ONE. The others are frequently close.

Shawn

The pan station wagon/ shooting brake looking variant? Whatever that’s called.


Correct me if I’m wrong- just remembered seeing that and thought it was odd especially with RS6 in the states and m5 wagon incoming.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by FSHNGRY

The pan station wagon/ shooting brake looking variant? Whatever that’s called.


Correct me if I’m wrong- just remembered seeing that and thought it was odd especially with RS6 in the states and m5 wagon incoming.

Just check Porsche.com

Multiple variants of Turismo available. Panamera Turbo S available. Starts at $200,000. I saw a GTS (if I recall correctly) for $129,000. Expensive, but available.

Shawn

[Chas8283]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Just check Porsche.com

Multiple variants of Turismo available. Panamera Turbo S available. Starts at $200,000. I saw a GTS (if I recall correctly) for $129,000. Expensive, but available.

Shawn

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...mo-wagon-dead/

[crypto]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Just check Porsche.com

Multiple variants of Turismo available. Panamera Turbo S available. Starts at $200,000. I saw a GTS (if I recall correctly) for $129,000. Expensive, but available.

Shawn

I think he’s mentioning the Sport Turismo specifically because it’s the wagon versio. When you think generally of Panamera or Taycan you kind of thing wagon but those aren’t it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an ST 9’ the road. I don’t even know what it looks like but apparently it looks like a wagon. 😂

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Chas8283

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...mo-wagon-dead/

For the next generation, and that’s a shame. Can still build one on Porsche right now. Sad.

Shawn

[jbeene]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

The fact is only 10% of Panemeras sold worldwide were wagons. You know the US market was nowhere near 10%. That inescapable reality is why even Porsche couldn’t get people to choose a wagon over other vehicle types. BMW doesn’t have a chance in the US beyond niche enthusiasts.

I cross shopped the Panamera with the RS6 and bought the RS6. For what was effectively the same car options and performance-wise the Panamera was significantly more expensive, smaller inside and frankly kind a ugly. Drop the price $65K and it I may have given it more of a chance but I couldn’t see the premium for a car that was arguably ugly, barely the same performance and is subject Porsche service prices. My 911 was $800 for an oil change. Audi includes service in my country. I did consider the Cayenne but the GT was more than $100K more. I guess I’m too cheap to pay Porsche priced if its not a 911.

RS6 made more sense for me and can honestly say its my favourite car after having several M3’s, a 991.2 911 C2S, and several other performance luxury cars. If the M5 doesn’t get the styling right and isn’t comparable priced I’ll move on. Probably back to another 911.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by jbeene

I cross shopped the Panamera with the RS6 and bought the RS6. For what was effectively the same car options and performance-wise the Panamera was significantly more expensive, smaller inside and frankly kind a ugly. Drop the price $65K and it I may have given it more of a chance but I couldn’t see the premium for a car that was arguably ugly, barely the same performance and is subject Porsche service prices. My 911 was $800 for an oil change. Audi includes service in my country. I did consider the Cayenne but the GT was more than $100K more. I guess I’m too cheap to pay Porsche priced if its not a 911.

RS6 made more sense for me and can honestly say its my favourite car after having several M3’s, a 991.2 911 C2S, and several other performance luxury cars. If the M5 doesn’t get the styling right and isn’t comparable priced I’ll move on. Probably back to another 911.

Why not keep your favorite RS6???

[M5F90]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

Looks lovely, but I’d rather it be a 100% EV.

I’m done buying gas.

What's your next car? Tesla 3 Performance (0-60 in 3.1 sec) or BMW i5 M60i (0-60 in 3.7 sec)?

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by M5F90

What's your next car? Tesla 3 Performance (0-60 in 3.1 sec) or BMW i5 M60i (0-60 in 3.7 sec)?

Likely an iX - need room in the back.