[Bahn360Photo]

Why do they test these in California?

Texas has better roads and Montana has better snow, Florida has humidity

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Maybe not the best way to judge wagons sales. Maybe if they start with something a bit more affordable to see. This strategy make me laugh we will come to the market with incredibly expensive wagons and if their is demand we will bring cheaper one? It should be the opposite

The fact is only 10% of Panemeras sold worldwide were wagons. You know the US market was nowhere near 10%. That inescapable reality is why even Porsche couldn’t get people to choose a wagon over other vehicle types. BMW doesn’t have a chance in the US beyond niche enthusiasts.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

The fact is only 10% of Panemeras sold worldwide were wagons. You know the US market was nowhere near 10%. That inescapable reality is why even Porsche couldn’t get people to choose a wagon over other vehicle types. BMW doesn’t have a chance in the US beyond niche enthusiasts.

Probably not the demographic that really need a wagon I really doubt most of these car where use to carry a lot of cargo. Even if they were the design of Porsche’s wagons made them only slightly more practical than the sedan-sportback equivalent. So I guess most of the sale were made on design preference.

If you compare a 5 serie sedan to a 5 serie wagon the cargo volume difference is pretty high. Plus in the case of a 530i/540i Touring the pricing would keep it accessible to some of the higher middle class family as a primary vehicle. Not like the Panamera which is probably going to be purchased by people with 5 other different car probably including a Range Rover so why go for the practicality?

[hobbez84]

I'd def give one a test drive and consider swapping my M5 CS for the wagon

[Greer]

Originally Posted by Mamba

Btw, saw this mock up of the new M5 Sedan by RBR in his recent upload. I think it looks stunning if it’s gonna look anything like this.

Here are my concerns about the hybrid M5:

1. If you take a road trip in one of these Hybrids, after 2-3 hours of driving you will be out of juice, and stuck with a combustion engine with less power than the generation behind it.

2. As soon as the battery is low or dies you suddenly get a lot of dead weight affecting your driving fun.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bow

Surely the M3 touring is the closest thing to an M3 touring?

Good point. I guess what I should've said, was before the M3 touring was available, the X3 M was considered the closest thing to one.

[Hansn]

Originally Posted by Greer

Here are my concerns about the hybrid M5:

1. If you take a road trip in one of these Hybrids, after 2-3 hours of driving you will be out of juice, and stuck with a combustion engine with less power than the generation behind it.

2. As soon as the battery is low or dies you suddenly get a lot of dead weight affecting your driving fun.

The hybrids never go out of juice. It stops spending on "normal" driving, and instead charges at the cost of fuel, so that you always have the power boost available.
It does ofourse use "power" from the gas engine to charge while you are not using that "power" to go faster, so its not an economical thing much like driving any V8 car anyway.. 😅 But there is always electricity available even if you never plug it in.

There is also a driving mode that locks the car in a charging mode, where it focuses on filling the battery to full without spending any in preparation for city driving/fast driving or whatever you need it for.
Full throttle kickdown will automatically trow you out of this mode and give full power for an overtake or any situation, without clicking any buttons/changing modes.

I had the G30 as a hybrid, and the system is very good.

[Evinrude1975]

Originally Posted by hobbez84

I'd def give one a test drive and consider swapping my M5 CS for the wagon

Don’t do it. Never…Please

[raannathr333]

Originally Posted by G30 B58

The M5 Touring is confirmed as coming to the states.

This!

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

The fact is only 10% of Panemeras sold worldwide were wagons. You know the US market was nowhere near 10%. That inescapable reality is why even Porsche couldn’t get people to choose a wagon over other vehicle types. BMW doesn’t have a chance in the US beyond niche enthusiasts.

I’m actually glad for that exclusivity, and partly why I have a deposit in for the G99, so I don’t have to drive the same car as everyone else!

[ST3]

Originally Posted by Greer

Here are my concerns about the hybrid M5:

1. If you take a road trip in one of these Hybrids, after 2-3 hours of driving you will be out of juice, and stuck with a combustion engine with less power than the generation behind it.

2. As soon as the battery is low or dies you suddenly get a lot of dead weight affecting your driving fun.

I’m not advocating for hybrids in our M cars, however, my wife has a 2023 45e and after 1yr, the odometer reads 13k miles of which 8k were battery only. We do a lot of 250 mile road trips and I think about that extra weight all of the time. The reality is that we put more than half of our miles on with short trips around town. My F90 is pretty frustratingly useless around town…once on the highway and backroads the fun begins. Bottom line is that I’m going to at least drive one of these new M car hybrids and then weigh out the factors (pun intended) from there.

[Salespunk]

It is wild that the manufacturers can't figure this out. The RS6 has sold way better than expectations, but the RS4 would have sold even better. BMW will test the M5 Touring and if the economy doesn't tank it should do fine, but the M3 Touring would have crushed it.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

It is wild that the manufacturers can't figure this out. The RS6 has sold way better than expectations, but the RS4 would have sold even better. BMW will test the M5 Touring and if the economy doesn't tank it should do fine, but the M3 Touring would have crushed it.

“Sold way better than expected” is ambiguous. Lets state objective fact… All A6 (inc A6, S6, A6 Allroad, and RS6 Avant) US 2023 sales through Q3 was only 5898 units. We’re probably talking about maybe 150 RS6 sold. Thats anything but inspiring confidence for other manufacturers to invest in wagons that have long proven unpopular.

[LuisBoston]

Looks lovely, but I’d rather it be a 100% EV.

I’m done buying gas.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by AKChocoPops

RS6 for 125k Brand new!! Where?? Try 150k before dealer greed.

I think your sense of the market is outdated. RS6s aren’t really demanding a premium anymore. Case in point: https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3yy...audi-rs6-avant

[KHATTI]

Originally Posted by AKChocoPops

RS6 for 125k Brand new!! Where?? Try 150k before dealer greed.

My ‘21 RS6 Avant was $132,240 almost fully optioned with Carbon Ceramics. All it’s missing is B&O 3D and night vision.

[Ex_Stig]

Originally Posted by hobbez84

I'd def give one a test drive and consider swapping my M5 CS for the wagon

This is exactly my plan. I had the M5 CS for 2 years and 14k miles. Sold it in August. Got an X7 M60 while I wait for the M5 Touring next year (fingers crossed). I've got the first allocation all secured as long as the car actually comes to this side of the pond.

[GoldfishTX]

Originally Posted by Greer

Here are my concerns about the hybrid M5:

1. If you take a road trip in one of these Hybrids, after 2-3 hours of driving you will be out of juice, and stuck with a combustion engine with less power than the generation behind it.

2. As soon as the battery is low or dies you suddenly get a lot of dead weight affecting your driving fun.

If it's anything like the 50e, that's not how the hybrid system works, especially if you're in a sport mode.

[G30M]

but does it weigh more than my truck?

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo

Why do they test these in California?

Texas has better roads and Montana has better snow, Florida has humidity

In California we have better traffic

[AKChocoPops]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

I think your sense of the market is outdated. RS6s aren’t really demanding a premium anymore. Case in point: https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3yy...audi-rs6-avant

Could be, but we have one dealer in Anchorage so maybe that’s part of the problem the last time I went to grab one the markup was 30 K and they had it listed for 184K.

[Adler11th]

Originally Posted by Hansn

The hybrids never go out of juice. It stops spending on "normal" driving, and instead charges at the cost of fuel, so that you always have the power boost available.
It does ofourse use "power" from the gas engine to charge while you are not using that "power" to go faster, so its not an economical thing much like driving any V8 car anyway.. 😅 But there is always electricity available even if you never plug it in.

There is also a driving mode that locks the car in a charging mode, where it focuses on filling the battery to full without spending any in preparation for city driving/fast driving or whatever you need it for.
Full throttle kickdown will automatically trow you out of this mode and give full power for an overtake or any situation, without clicking any buttons/changing modes.

I had the G30 as a hybrid, and the system is very good.

XM experience of first owners in EU begs to differ. They do run out of juice and then it’s like a prev post said - you got lower powered v8 with bunch of weight on it. You could argue that in US it will be a bit better for to speed limits/freeway limitations etc. We will see. I bet it will be a blast around town.